Will it get Ugly in Wisconsin?

I'm sorry that you have to play semantic games to make a "point". Illinois had a state income tax of 3% and it was raised another 2% making it 5%. That IS an increase of two more percentage points. The Republicans are running all over this state saying the same stupid thing as you are because they would rather have the shock value of saying 66% rather than saying two more percent. It is the kind of silly semantic games designed to fool their idiot base. If they wanted to be honest, and no one expects that, they would say that the state income tax was raised 66% of 3%, but they always seem to leave that last part off for some reason. The GOP!? Always catering to the idiot constituency.

 

I'm a working person and I know which party has my best interests in mind. It isn’t the party that had corporations declared the same as people. It isn’t the party that held 98% of us hostage to the extension of the Bush tax cuts unless the wealthiest 2% also got the extension. It isn’t the party that hasn't presented one jobs bill since they've had the majority. It isn’t the party that is trying to bust unions that working people rely on for better wages and benefits. It isn’t the party that refuses to extend unemployment. It isn’t the party that fights minimum wage increases every time. It isn’t the party that want's to cut 1 million jobs with their budget proposal and sums the job losses up as "so be it". It isn’t the party that is in bed with the Chamber of Commerce that is actively shipping American jobs overseas, and on and on... Yeah, you're a working person and a Republican and yet your situation couldn't be more meaningless to your party of choice. What does that say about you?

 

That I pray your "party" keeps on the same road so the majority of us can gain back control of both elected branches from the insanity that existed in DC. - or is it three elected branches as per your rant above.

 

Semantics...? Really...?

Let's do a math example you may understand:

If you have three apples in your basket and a friend gives you two more apples, you now have five apples in your basket. How many additional apples have you received? If you said "two", you get a gold star. Now, how much of a percentage increase in apples over your original three did you receive from your friend? If you say "two" percent, you have to go stand in the corner with a dunce hat on your head. But, if you say "sixty-six" percent, you get ten extra minutes of recess!

Math is eternal, Archimedes.

 

Not only did he know when he came in, but he campaigned on doing exactly what he is trying to don right now.

 

Pardon me but are you saying that it is now Illigal for a worker to withdraw his labour in the United States of America!! That they no longer have the right to strike!

"Oh, and nothing I know of permits the union personal to violate the law whether or not it is "reacting to threats". "

My question was had they withdrawn there labour prior to the threats and you come back with that??

 

Could be rlm but it seems he may have come off a bit to heavy handed with his "threats". I've heard some of the police officeers assigned to crowd control were cheering WITH the protesters and it's sure not going to happen in six days.

Seems the Democrats have left the state.

Whether or not anyonc construes what's going on as right or wrong it does seem to me that his heavy handed approach isn't working out so well.

 

They called in sick and I'm pretty sure that's illegal.

 

Again, he is not making the law, the legislature is. Also, mostly semantics, but you are reading more into his word (or, more likely, your news source is) than I am hearing. He has asked the national guard to be ready IN CASE they are needed.

And, yes, the democrats bankrupted the state and now control neither house nor the governorship.

 

You read my word correctly. It is illegal for many "critical" jobs to "withdraw his labour" AKA strike. I am not specifically familiar with Wisconsin law, but in many (most?) states, that includes teachers and I and almost positive I heard that Wisconsin was one of them. That is exactly how Reagan fired the air controllers.

 

A pretty lame response rlm and I really do expect better of you.

Seriously why would he ask the NG to be ready "if needed" and why would he announce it? Maybe because he/they knew it would not be well received? For the record it hasn't it seems.

As for news sources it seems only the left has bothered to report on it but that's changing now that the Democrats have left the state. Now it's news they can use but it's been news to me since I started this thread.

Funny that I work in an environment surrounded by hardcore Republicans and a hardcore Libertarian with Tea Party leanings and have not heard ONE WORD about what's going on in Wisconsin. Seriously why is that? I don't bring it up. I just wait.

How can media ignore tens of thousands of protestors unless it doesn't fit their agenda?

To me it is getting ugly in Wisconsin. Ugly does not have to involve violence as some here seem to think. Ugly is often when people take to the streets in protest.

What's happening in Wisconsin may be coming to other states real soon. I wonder if it will be newsworthy.

 

I don't know where you live, Clembo, but it's definitely been news here in Oklahoma. The conservative news outlets here have been reporting on it just as much as the liberal news outlets for the last few days. At least, I haven't noticed any difference; they're both reporting just about the same thing.

I will say that I think it's cowardly of the Democrats to leave the state and not do what the people elected them to do. They've pulled a cowardly tactic and they should be ashamed of themselves. The voters in WI need to "reward" them in the next election.

Among the worst things, however are the teachers who have called in sick forcing the schools to close. The worst thing, in my opinion, is the teachers who have brought the students into the streets demonstrating for them. I think a lot of the signs the protesters are carrying are shameful, too. Some are hate-filled and promote violence, also. Not very civil of them.

Do these protests remind anyone of the concept of the protests of the Tea Party? After all, the Tea Party has assembled peaceably with the intent of initiating change. Maybe we need a nickname for the protesters in Wisconsin, too. How about "Cheesebaggers"?

 

I prefaced it by saying it was mostly semantics. Take it for what you will.

As for your "it seems only the left has bothered to report on it", the only thing I have heard of note has been on Fox (starting on the 14th BTW). Not exactly you left wing mecca. How do you think I found out thos was what he campaigned on - from his mouth?

 

Hey, whatever gets you through the night, I guess.
I know my party isn't the one bent on subsidizing failure & preying on the poor, endenturing them through multi-generational, motivation-zapping handouts. I know my party understands that a strong business environment benefits everyone by creating the jobs we need. I know my party is the one with the message that this country offers the most opportunity for one to succeed if they are willing to put forth the effort. I know my party agrees with me that personal responsibility is what we need to promote.

 

I see BO is putting his foot in his mouth again by weighing in on a subject that he admittedly hasn't been following.

 

You speak in generalities while I cite specific examples of actual legislation that Republicans have a record of that hurts the labor class. Tell you what, show me a bill that Republicans have passed and Democrats were against that actually benefited the workers of this country. You know, something that actually supported labor without relying on the long since discredited trickle down nonsense. You do nothing but blame those workers that already are routinely victimized by the party of greedy, heartless, money worshipping angry elitists......you know the economic royalists that think they built this country rather than the people that actually did the work. Your party couldn't be more in bed with those that despise workers like you. Thank goodness that people like you get to benefit from those Democrats that do the real work of protecting the workers in this country even if you are too damn dim to appreciate it. The only reason you can earn a living wage, safe working conditions, vacations, etc., is because Democrats fought for those concessions. I my opinion, they should have fought for them for Democrats only. People who can't appreciate something until they lose it don't deserve it in the first place.

 

I'd say Scott Walker got more than he bargained for. If there is a foot to be removed here, it is most likely the one in his A$$.

 

That sounds like the Cheesebaggers may be turning violent!

 

Did someone deny that this was an attack on unions? Riiiiiiiight?!

Republicans challenging unions in state capitols
By DAVID A. LIEB and SAM HANANEL, AP 2 hours ago

Republicans who swept into power in state capitols this year with promises to cut spending and bolster the business climate now are beginning to usher in a new era of labor relations that could result in the largest reduction of power in decades for public employee unions.
But as massive public protests and legislative boycotts in Wisconsin this week have shown, the Republican charge can be fraught with risk and unpredictable turns as politicians try to transform campaign ideas into action.
The question GOP governors and lawmakers are now facing is exactly how far they can go without encountering a backlash. Do they merely extract more money from school teachers, prison guards and office workers to help ease their states' budget problems? Or do they go at the very core of union power by abolishing the workers' right to bargain collectively? Do they try to impose changes by steamrolling the opposition, or by coming to the bargaining table?
"The consequences will be rolling forth for many, many years," said James Gregory, director of Center for Labor Studies at the University of Washington. "The battle lines have been drawn and will be replicated around the country. This is going to be very tough for unions and public sector employees."
In Wisconsin, new Republican Gov. Scott Walker is going for it all — the elimination of collective bargaining rights for public employees plus sharp increases in their health care and pension payments. His plan advanced quickly to the Republican-led Senate, despite several days of protests that drew tens of thousands of demonstrators to the Capitol. Then Senate Democrats suddenly fled the state Thursday, bringing the legislative process to a halt.
Wisconsin was the first battleground. But it is unlikely to be the last.
Wis. Lawmakers Flee to Block Anti-Union Bill
A similar proposal to strip public employees of collective bargaining rights drew throngs of protesters Thursday at the Ohio Capitol. Hundreds more have demonstrated in Tennessee and Indiana, where Republican-led committees have advanced bills to restrict bargaining rights for teachers' unions. And governors from Nevada to Florida have been touting the need to weaken union powers and extract more money from government employees to help balance out-of-whack budgets.

The confrontation comes as organized labor is reeling from a steady loss of members in the private sector. The public sector, with about 7.6 million members, now account for the majority of workers on union rolls, according to the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Among union leaders, a sense of crisis is growing. Labor is preparing to spend at least $30 million to fight anti-union legislation in dozens of states, according to internal budget numbers reviewed by The Associated Press. They're lobbying local officials, organizing public rallies, working phone banks and buying television and newspaper ads in a desperate attempt to swing public opinion.

"Plans are being put into place to silence workers, lower their wages, cut their benefits and increase the likelihood that they will suffer injuries and fatalities at work," said Gerald McEntee, president of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. "It is happening at a breakneck pace and too little attention is being paid."

Labor plans to spend large amounts of money on battles in Florida, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, Ohio, Missouri, New Hampshire, Maine, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. Unions see their goal as not just playing defense — as opponents chip away at bargaining rights — but going on offense to try to educate the public about the role of unions.

But last fall's midterm elections, which brought the defeat of many union-supported candidates and victories by pro-business Republican adversaries, show the difficulty the unions face in a climate shaped by the sour economy. In many states, Republican governors have blamed unions in part for the state budget crisis by negotiating flush benefit packages for public workers that have forced states to slash aid to schools, social services and important services.

Wisconsin's legislation, for example, not only would eliminate collective bargaining rights but also force public workers to pay half the costs of their pensions and at least 12.6 percent of their health care coverage — increases the governor calls "modest" compared with those in the private sector. It's projected to save $300 million over the next two years to address a $3.6 billion budget shortfall.

Ohio Gov. John Kasich, citing an estimated $8 billion budget gap, wants to restrict union rights for state workers and in townships, cities, counties, school districts and publicly funded universities. The legislation would generally eliminate salary schedules.

Kasich drew support Thursday from local tea party leader Ted Lyons, an electronics executive from Troy, Ohio, who said the proposed union changes are long overdue. "The labor unions have become so powerful now on a worldwide basis," Lyons said. "It's beyond just the benefits of the membership, it's about all the spending."

Lyons' voice was nearly drowned out by a crowd of protesters.

But some other Republicans are intentionally avoiding the sorts of confrontations that have sparked demonstrations.

Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder, the former chief operating officer of computer manufacturer Gateway Inc., won election last November on a similar pro-business agenda and also wants savings from public employee costs. But he's not seeking to abolish collective bargaining rights and has publicly denounced legislative efforts to strike at union membership and fees.

Snyder wants all government employees to pay 20 percent of their health care premiums. But he's not ramming the change at unions, and went out of his way Thursday to highlight his desire to work with them.

"As a practical matter, we're asking for $180 million in concessions, and we know we need to go bargain for that," Snyder told reporters Thursday after delivering his 2011-12 budget proposal. "We want to do that thoughtfully in partnership with our employees. We're not here to create threats."

 

Maybe this;

might explain some of your consternation. Businesses are making money and governments are going broke. I wonder just how closely that fact ties to the line quoted above. Yes! I really wonder.