Will it get Ugly in Wisconsin?

Someone earlier mentioned "strikes" so that's why I addressed it. I'm split on the governor's decision to possibly call in the National Guard. On one hand, it's heavy-handed. On the other hand, it can keep the peace in case of violence.

Every single teacher in Wisconsin is employed? Wow, they have better employment rolls than could be imagined.

Well, I don't want the lazy liberals teaching our kids anything.

I'll take a qualified conservative teacher over a liberal any day of the week.

Aren't we talking about public school employees? Doesn't a government entity in their state oversee them? I don't believe the government would BE wrong in this case.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with peaceful protests.

A show of solidarity? Nothing wrong with that. I encourage peaceful protests!

 

Funny how a Republican gets all pro-government when it comes to heavy handed tactics against firemen, teachers, policemen, and other public workers. "If they won't do what they are told, beat them with sticks!" This Teabag governor has pi$$ed a lot of folks off in a very short time. Have you seen the protests up there?

 

Who said that?

 

That is the liberal talking point. I am surprised they have not brought up Kent State.

 

Who's they?

 

Moen and his friends.

 

OK.

Now seriously rlm I'd love to hear some of your real thoughts on this matter. I didn't raise this question as a left vs. right thing. I brought it up as a serious question.

Not going to say I agree with OKC but at least we're making some points as we see it. DeOrc has done so as well.

Yes, there are a lot of "what ifs" but when you come to a subject like this isn't that half the "fun"?

Actually a few comments Moen has made I had considered. Tourism and boycotting actually. Tourism especially as it generates a lot of income for Wisconsin so here's a "what if".

What if it does get to a point where unions not even involved become involved? Sanitation would be a key methinks. Will people from Chicago flock to their summer homes if they have no garbage service? I wouldn't.

 

"what if" -- Remember the Arizona boycott after they passed their dumb SB1070 immigration law? Here is a list of the repercussions. And they didn't even pi$$ off unions.

Arizona has had to face boycotts by:
ASPIRA
Hispanic Association of Colleges and Universities (HACU)
Hispanic Federation, Inc.
Labor Council for Latin American Advancement (LCLAA)
League of United Latin American Citizens (LULAC)
MANA—A National Latina Organization
National Association of Hispanic Federal Executives
National Association of Hispanic Publications
National Conference for Puerto Rican Women
National Hispanic Council on Aging
National Hispanic Media Coalition, Inc.
National Institute for Latino Policy
National Puerto Rican Coalition (NPRC)
SER-Jobs for Progress National, Inc.
U.S. Hispanic Leadership Institute (USHLI)
William C. Velasquez Institute
Afro-Latino Development Alliance
National Council of La Raza (NCLR)
Asian American Justice Center (AAJC)
Center for Community Change (CCC)
Service Employees International Union (SEIU)
The Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights (Leadership Conference)
United Food and Commercial Workers (UFCW) Rainbow PUSH Coalition
Mexican-American Coalition for Immigration Reform (MXACIR)
United Church of Christ, Arizona
Voto Latino
CAUSA; Inc.
United Food and Commercial Workers International Union
American Educational Research Assn.
World Boxing Council
Sociologists Without Borders.
L.A. Gay & Lesbian Center
NAFSA: Association of International Educators (formerly National Assn. of Foreign Student Advisers)
Law and Society Association

Cities Boycotting or Challenging Arizona SB 1070
Austin, TX - … see the Press Release
Los Angeles, CA - … see the resolution (pdf)
San Francisco, CA - … see the resolution page 15 (pdf)
Oakland City, CA - … see the resolution (pdf)
Saint Paul, MN - … see the Press Release
Boston, MA - … see the Resolution(pdf)
Flagstaff, AZ - read resolution (pdf)
Santa Cruz County, AZ - read resolution page 112 (pdf)
Tucson, AZ - read resolution (pdf)
Calexico, CA - read resolution (pdf)
City of San Diego, CA - read resolution (pdf)
Richmond, CA - read resolution (pdf)
Santa Ana, CA - read resolution (pdf)
West Hollywood, CA - read resolution page 7 (pdf)
Boulder, CO - read resolution (pdf)
Denver Public Schools, CO - read resolution (pdf)
Washington, DC - read resolution (pdf)
St. Paul, MN - read resolution (pdf)
New York City, NY - read resolution (pdf)
El Paso County, TX - read resolution (pdf)
Seattle, WA - read resolution (pdf)
Berkeley, CA - read release
Columbus, OH - read release

Conventions and Events Cancelled
Pitbull Reacciona a la Ley SB1070 de Arizona con la Cancelación de su Concierto en Phoenix
Leading International Artist Pitbull Reacts to Arizona’s SB1070 by Canceling Show in Phoenix<
LOS ANGELES (May 13, 2010)…Top global hitmaker, Pitbull, announced this afternoon via Twitter and his websites (Planet Pit | Pitbull – Mr. Worldwide, YOUR SOURCE for entertainment & worldwide news!! New videos, photos, latest music, breaking news, and Pitbull's official fan site!! and Pitbull | The Official Pitbull Site ) his decision to cancel the May 31 date of his “Mr. Worldwide’s Carnaval” tour in Phoenix, AZ in protest of the recent passing of the state’s controversial SB1070 legislation
… read more

 

I'm going up to Milwaukee this week and I am refusing to buy anything in the state while there. I'll gas up before I leave and bring snacks just to avoid having to buy anything. If this dumbass Teabag governor thinks he can save a few bucks on the backs of the working people he will mor elikely find out just how much the state's economy can really suffer.

 

In one of the largest protests in recent memory, thousands of angry union supporters gathered at the state Capitol on Tuesday to oppose a bill by Gov. Scott Walker that would greatly weaken organized labor in Wisconsin.

More than 12,000 protesters gathered in two separate rallies outside the Capitol, many of them carrying signs and chanting "Recall Walker" or "Kill this bill." Thousands more crowded inside the rotunda and watched TV monitors broadcasting a public hearing on the governor's proposal.

Capitol Police officers, Department of Natural Resources wardens, UW police and state troopers provided beefed-up security, but the crowd remained peaceful — if loud.

Cheers erupted every time someone in the hearing voiced opposition to the governor's bill, aimed at erasing a $137 million deficit in the current budget. Unveiled Friday, Walker's plan would remove collective bargaining rights for most of the 175,000 state and local government employees, allowing most workers to negotiate only over salary.

Walker, however, exempted most law enforcement, firefighters and Wisconsin State Patrol troopers from the change. On Tuesday, members of the firefighters union received a loud ovation from the crowd outside the Capitol as they marched through the rally, holding signs displaying solidarity with their fellow state and local employees.

"What's good for one of us is good for all of us," said Russell Griswold, a retired electrician from West Allis. Griswold worked as a union electrician for 46 years and has a nice retirement thanks to unions, he said. He came out Tuesday because he is afraid those who follow him will not enjoy the same benefits.

The governor said the changes are needed to overcome not only this year's deficit but a far deeper hole in his first two-year budget, which he plans to introduce Tuesday. If his proposal fails, Walker has said he would likely have to lay off about 1,500 state workers by June 30 to make up for the current budget's shortfall. He also said the budget emergency doesn't allow time to negotiate new contracts with unions.

"That would be more believable if he had ever bothered to meet with the unions to begin with," said David Ahrens, a researcher at UW-Madison's Carbone Cancer Center.

Walker's plan — which requires most state and local employees pay half the cost of their pensions and at least 12.6 percent of their health insurance premiums — is projected to save the state $30 million by June 30. That savings jumps to $300 million over the next two years.

But the biggest savings Walker is proposing for the current budget have nothing to do with public employees. His bill proposes to save $165 million this year by simply refinancing state debt.

Governor out of town

Walker missed the crowds Tuesday. According to his staff, Walker left town for a business tour of Green Bay, La Crosse, Eau Claire and Wausau before giving an interview on Fox News' "On the Record with Greta Van Susteren."

But it is unlikely the six hours of chants and three entire floors of protesters would have changed his mind. Most states' governors are facing tough budget problems, and many are taking hard lines to fix them.

Democratic New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo has threatened 9,800 state layoffs if union negotiations stall. Republican New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie has pushed through pay freezes, furloughs and pension cuts for public workers.

Both faced a loud and angry public when they introduced their proposals but are doing well in recent polls.

Charles Franklin, UW-Madison political science professor, said Tuesday that the opposition that has erupted over Walker's proposals are more severe than he has seen in 19 years of following politics in Wisconsin.

"These are very large stakes," he said. "But I'm sure the governor knew that going in. The question is, will the lawmakers stick by him?"

 

I do not have enough specifics to argue tit for tat, but the unrealistic promises made by politicians of the past cannot continue. Present status can only lead to bankrupting either the government or the people thereof - or both. Unlike CoinOKC, I really think unions can serve a useful function so long as their powers are restricted to reasonable levels. Shutting down a state (city?) should be way beyond their powers and firing people for unexcused absences should be well within the control of their employer. Replacing people with nearly 20% un/under employment should not be a problem.

The methodology of transitioning from today's status to the requirements of the future will more be determined by the daily events than any specific plans made today. Postponing this transition will only makes things more difficult in the future, and not preparing for the worst asap would be even more foolish. So far, all I have seen is the governor's getting ready.

As for sanitation workers, Reagan fired the air controllers. The airlines went through some rough times, but they still flew. Cops and firemen could be even rougher. I know! I know! They are "exempted", but that is where a big chunk of my limiting the power of the unions comes in.

 

I think y'all need to get one point straight here. This isn't about balancing a state's budget. There are a lot of ways to accomplish that without doing it on the backs of struggling hourly working folk. This is really about attacking unions which happen to be a constituency of Democrats. You weaken unions, you weaken Democrats. Although some of you find this a worthy goal, it is a purely political move no matter what the cover story happens to be.
They say that elections have consequences and low midterm voter turnout is key to Republican victories. I have to wonder how many of those affected by this Teabag Governor never bothered to go out and vote last November. I think what I’m saying is that while businesses are reaping record profits, it is the working people that must be held accountable for the problems they did not cause and are in the forced to give up more and more of the little they have less rather than raise taxes on the wealthy. At least Republicans are very predictable.

 

That is where you and most of the rest of this place (and most of the rest of the USA) disagree.

 

Please show the poll that you did that proves your assertion. Funny that you have no problem speaking for other people or even the entire rest of the country without actually knowing diddy-squat!

 

Does this sound so bad?

Under (Governor) Walker's plan, state employees' share of pension and health care costs would go up by an average of 8 percent. The changes would save the state $30 million by June 30 and $300 million over the next two years to address a $3.6 billion budget shortfall.
Unions could still represent workers, but could not seek pay increases above those pegged to the Consumer Price Index unless approved by a public referendum. Unions also could not force employees to pay dues and would have to hold annual votes to stay organized.
In exchange for bearing more costs and losing bargaining leverage, public employees were promised no furloughs or layoffs. Walker has threatened to order layoffs of up to 6,000 state workers if the measure does not pass.

 

Now this is the bad bit "Walker has threatened to order layoffs of up to 6,000 state workers if the measure does not pass." I believe it is called Blackmail, support me or I fire you, how about if the voters decide they would rather get rid of him LOL

 

Do you remember how bent out of shape Okie got when they raised the Illinois income tax 2%? Suddenly, raising health costs 8% doesn't sound so bad. I wonder if math wasn't his favorite subject?

 

Nov. 2, 2010 when the Republicans ran with their main plank to control spending. I think that will suffice adequately as a poll. It seems to me we won more than you did with a plank to create jobs with more spending.

 

Are you talking about the 66% tax increase? You may be speaking about when the tax was raised two percentage points, which equates to a 66% increase, Einstein.

Gov. Quinn promises to quickly sign Ill. tax hike - Yahoo! News

 

Not blackmail at all... it's just a matter of economics. I suppose he could raise taxes like a Democrat would do.