What Will be Left When There is NO Middle Class?

I really have my doubts that the US can tariff their way out of the new global economy in the long term. But, it might be an option to try, I guess.

I just don't think we will be able to keep the global middle class down forever in order to save ours. There are about 6 billion other folks out there working to improve their lives and it is apparently working for them. They are getting the jobs and their disposable income is increasing.

It is hard for me to think of anything in the long term that doesn't even out the global economy. We have been very high while the majority of the world has been very low. Now it looks like we are going to drop while they are going to rise and we will meet in the middle. Good for them, not so good for us.

 

It isn't an either/or situation. It's a continuum. Roughly speaking, if you are upper middle class, you backslide into the middle class. If you are middle class, you'll backslide into the poor class. If you are poor, you'll be impoverished. We'll all take the hit one way or the other. Book learning has always taken a backseat to Aristocracy. That won't change.

 

I have friends, family, and acquaintances that range from multi-millionaires to those struggling just above homelessness. I have never found myself in a "class ghetto" of any kind for any length of time during my life. So you can see why it would be hard to answer such a question.

 

I will take that to mean this. Even though your friends are very diverse in financial background, at least half are still considered middle class, and being honest and answering the question would result in you disproving your own theory. The middle class is fine. Do the statistics you quoted include all of the Spanish speaking Americans in this country? Refresh my memory, what monetary figure is associated with the poverty line these days?

 

One quote I heard recently was that poverty was a little over $22,000 for a family of 5. What I wonder is how many people are suffering with the characteristics of poverty and not saying anything to anyone?

My son was in a high school band competition last week and he got to talking to another kid in the band that he didn't know very well. The other kid confided in him that he didn’t feel well because he hadn't eaten in 2 days. When my son asked him why, he said that there was no food in the house because his dad worked construction and nothing was being built right now. I think the deeper you dig the more the problem is hard to ignore. If you choose to insulate yourself, you don't have to face what is happening out there, that is until it comes to your doorstep.

BTW My son who has no lack of compassion drove this kid to McDonalds after the competition and spent his allowance getting this kid a meal. Some people would prefer to believe that my son was played or that he abetted a slacker or that he enabled someone that should be out supporting themselves. All I see is that I have a very compassionate son that I couldn't be more proud of. I think I’ll give him some extra allowance this week.

 

That is a touching story and a very good example of what happens to the unemployed and their families during a recession. It does not however prove that the middle class has disappeared. If that boy's father was working, I bet they would fall in the middle class.

FWIW, I don't think any family of 5 can live on $22K/year without some form of government assistance. A $22K/year salary equates to $10.58/hour. The starting rate for most entry level positions in my company is $10/hour. And as you have astutely pointed out, jobs in the service industry are low paying jobs. The jobs that pay less than $10/hour are typically like those found at McDonald's. You are not going to get me to believe that the people working at McDonalds are supporting families; they are all children.

I think it is hysterical that you think I have insulated myself from the problems facing our country. In 2005, the Atlantic City casinos employed over 50K people. That number is now under 37K. Over 25% of the people in my industry are unemployed, yet you think I am insulated. In November 2008, my girlfriend was laid off from both of her dealing jobs inside of a week. She went from making $80K/year to $0. She was fortunate enough to find a part time dealing job and was eligible for partial unemployment.

Still, most of the people I know, including those who are unemployed, would still fall in the category of the middle class. I asked you to perform a very simple task. Classify the financial situation of your ten closest friends and tell us how many fall in the middle class. Instead of being a stand up guy, you decided to dodge, and give us an excuse about how the diversity of your friends prevented you from completing this simple exercise.

 

I don't think that you've intentionally insulated yourself, it just tends to happen to many people. Water seeks it's own level and all...

I don't really know the financial situation of my 10 closest friends. I can guess at some of them but I imagine many of them fall into the middle class dynamic and higher but that is really a function of where I live and very specific to my situation and certainly not generalizable the country as a whole. To be honest, neither is your situation. I do know that when I talk to any of them about this subject, we all agree that we are not prospering financially. In fact, I have actually supressed my financial situation to them because I realize some of them are hurting and I don't want to seem like I'm throwing my situation in their faces. I see the same foreclosure signs in the neighborhood as everyone else does. I see the same cost of living increases and flat salaries everyone else sees.

If you are trying to argue that there has been no middle class decrease, all the statistics out there are proving you wrong. From where do you think the 1 in 7 living below the poverty line hail from? Many of them were once solid middle class. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here since any economist will pretty much say exactly what I have said. Manufacturing jobs, the ones that pay a living wage, are going overseas at and not coming back. The US economy will have to create jobs away from the manufacturing sector if we ever want to see a rise in the middle class. It could happen and mostly likely would come from green technologies. I just hope it comes in time to help all the families that need a way to survive.

 

ok

 

But you said middle class will end. So how can upper middle class slide into.....a void? And no. Book learning only recently began to place. I'd say since NASCAR and pork chops on a stick started to become popular. Who the Ivy League when you can just make left turns for a few million bucks

 

You may be absolutely correct on that but getting people to see it is next to impossible. The would rather blame the Republicans or blame the Democrats instead of just seeing it for what it is....capitalism gone global. Ain't it grand?

 

The middle class WILL end for many, many people formally middle class. It already has to some degree.

 

Touching story huh? Your compassion is overwhelming. LOTS of folks in that very situation. To those "middle class" families...you're rich. It's all relative to some degree. I guess when you folks claim to be "middle class", you must compare yourselves to other middle class (who are actually rich), so you call yourselves middle class to insulate yourselves.
Atlantic City....what a joke. The whole industry is based on excess. That venue ISN'T required to sustain a moral and decent society. It's largely controlled by corruptible entities. The whole industry is immoral and perverted. Your girlfriend 80K to zero? WAAAAA! She participates in extracting other's fortunes...I guess what comes around goes around....and how dare she collect unemployment! She's lazy! She should quit sucking up to the taxpayers, to the system for her shortfalls. It's people like her that socialism is born of. Isn't that the republican banter we always hear? Sell some of your excess of elite coins to help her out. Stop allowing her to drain the system. Be a proud American and don't allow bloodsuckers like that to eat away at us all.
Stupid rhetoric, wouldn't you say? That's what the right pukes out every day.

 

For those other 6 billion, it is probably going to be grand as they improve their lives. But, like I think I have said before, I believe the smart people in the US are preparing for the a reality after this latest financial meltdown. The times they are a changin'. I don't think it means we are going to become the new 3rd world country but we sure are going to come to grips that we are not going to be the big man on campus in the world just because of our birthright as a country.

And I really think the other problem we have is that it is hard to address a trade imbalance with tough stances when the countries that you have the biggest imbalances with are also the countries who fund your massive debt. And we will never voluntarily change that as long as half the country won't accept tax increases and the other half won't accept spending cuts. Of course, eventually the situation will probably get to the point that both will have to happen regardless.

 

Middle Class as a term is used as BS a lot. Tax cuts for the middle class that go up to 250K. Total political BS. In the US, based upon income, I think it would be very hard to argue that the middle class extends anywhere past 100K a year. And that is household income.

If someone's household is making more than 100K and they call themselves anything with Middle Class in it, they are full of it. Only 15% of the country makes 100K or more in their households...nothing Middle about that.

250K or less...that includes 98.5% of households. Middle Class tax cuts...BS.

Notice how you never hear anyone say they are 'Lower Upper Class'. Doesn't even sound right, does it? lol

 

Ah, but you said it will end. In fact the thread reads no middle class. Not middle class for some. Thats is life. I bet there are some who were lower middle class who are now middle class. You made a claim that middle class will diappear. Are you now saying thats wont be the case?

 

Didnt rim's cents say he was against repealing the Bush tax cuts? He mentioned that he was one of those making at least 250K a month. Maybe he can give that high school band kid some McDonald gift certificates. I realize I am risking being called a liar for have said ''rim's cents''.

 

Your attempt at playing gotcha is failing miserably. I am not saying anything of the kind.

 

Last I checked, Rlm is living on a pension and retired. He is a business partner to a degree and I know him well. He does not make 250K a month, or a year, or several years, lol.

I will admit to being, according to Stu's numbers, Lower Upper Class, and yes, lol, that does sound kinda wierd But I did work for everything I have, and am not making any gains just doin the doggy paddle to stay afloat .

I do not see my " gains " in the metals as gains, I just see my dollar shrinking as it takes so much more of them to buy the shiny stuff. Gold is the standard of value, the dollar is not.

 

Ah. The way he was so against the upper two percent getting a tax increase he made it seem as if he was part of the set. Must just be that he is against the left

 

I'm not attempting to do anything. You made this thread up. What will be left when there is no middle class. You said it will disappear. Now you say some will and some wont. If I said poverty will end. And then say some poverty will end. That isnt the same thing is it? I dont know how to play gotcha. I just want you to be clear. Will it end or will it stick around?