What may be the problem...modern education

A very interesting article related to the problems this country is now finding it's self in, buth here and abroad. What is really frightning is that these are the future leaders of the FREE world. They really rely on the word Free!

The Free Ride In Public Schools: Author: Joel Turtel

To protect children’s self-esteem or deflect complaints by parents, many public schools today automatically advance failing students to the next grade level. In other schools, some students are left back a maximum of one year, then promoted again regardless of their academic skills.

The No Child Left Behind Act tries to solve this problem. The federal government is pressuring public schools to set minimum standards that each student must pass before advancing to the next grade.

However, in spite of these new laws, many states still have semi-automatic advancement based on the student’s overall per-formance. Many schools consider a student’s "portfolio" of work, attendance record, or other mitigating factors. Based on these factors, the school may advance students to the next grade, even though they do poorly on their tests or read at a previous grade level.

For example, a dedicated California 7th-grade math teacher wrote to Dr. Laura Schlessinger, radio talk-show host, about this problem. She said that about 30 percent of her students did not do their daily homework assignments, but she could do nothing about this. That is because the California Education code forbids teachers from "punishing" students for failing to do their homework.

She also said that students are "not retained" if they fail one class or fail all their classes. "Not retained" is a polite way of saying not left back.

Students may not want to do their homework because it bores them to death, but these kids are smart anyhow. Why should they bother doing homework or studying hard if they advance to the next grade no matter how bad they do in class? That would be dumb, and these kids are not dumb.

When students who should be failing automatically advance to the next grade from elementary school through high school, the problem keeps getting worse. By graduation day, some students who graduate can barely read their own diplomas. In effect, these students get a counterfeit diploma that is nothing more than a twelve-year attendance record.

What does automatic promotion teach children? Many students tend to set their standards no higher than what their teachers or school expects of them. Automatic promotion lets students coast along with little or no effort, knowing they will advance to the next grade even if they never study or do their homework, or receive low grades on their tests. Automatic promotion also tells kids they can succeed in life without effort or perseverance.

Besides creating millions of graduating illiterates, automatic promotion tells kids that mediocrity and laziness are ac-ceptable. It tragically sets children up to fail later in life when reality smacks them in the face -- when they apply for college or a job. These are not lessons that schools should be teaching our children.

 

Apparently here in the UK there are no longer winners and losers in schools Just in case the child's potential development is adversely affected
So please dont worry you are not the only country with a crazy educational agendas!!

De Orc

 

ack.. Dr. Laura as a source

 

Sorry Dan but your post had to many words for me to read and it started to hurt my brain.

Next time can you keep it down to five words or less and put in a nice picture for me to look at.

 

OldDan, I had to look up who Joel Turtel was. Turns out, in addition to write such enthralling articles like the one you posted, he's also an education policy analyst, and author of “Public Schools, Public Menace: How Public Schools Lie To Parents and Betray Our Children." Though I haven't read it, his web site offers some insight as to what it covers, but more on that later.

First, the article...

To protect children’s self-esteem or deflect complaints by parents, many public schools today automatically advance failing students to the next grade level. In other schools, some students are left back a maximum of one year, then promoted again regardless of their academic skills.

The No Child Left Behind Act tries to solve this problem. The federal government is pressuring public schools to set minimum standards that each student must pass before advancing to the next grade.

However, in spite of these new laws, many states still have semi-automatic advancement based on the student’s overall per-formance.

There's much to cover here, but let's start with "automatically advancing failing students to the next grade level." First, failure is a relative and highly subjective term. If I told you that a third grader would have to be able to...

Use the inverse relationship between raising to a power and extracting the root of a perfect square integer; for an integer that is not square, determine without a calculator the two integers between which its square root lies and explain why.

-or they would be retained (fail the grade and have to repeat), would you think this is fair? The above is actually a seventh grade California Content Standard (N.S. 2.7). The actual third grade math content standards are here.

Now, here's a few things to think about. Who has decided that all third graders are capable of knowing, understanding, and applying every standard listed on this page? What if they have trouble with N.S. 2.7 Determine the unit cost when given the total cost and number of units. ??? Should they be retained?

Do all children develop (mentally) at the same time, in the same way?

Do you think I could structure a questiojn in such a way that the majority of the children will get the correct answer, and likewise structure it in such a way that the majority would get the example wrong?

N.S. 2.8 Solve problems that require two or more of the skills mentioned above.

On standardized tests this tends to mean 3-step word problems, or problems such as: What is 1- 4/6 in simplest form?

This requires students to know and apply the following:
1) that 1 = 6/6
2) that 6/6 - 4/6 = 2/6
3) that 2/6 is equal to 1/3

This is not an easy concept for a 7 year old.

So yes, the article is correct in that students are retained from K-3 (and again from 4-6) once, as we simply can't have 10 year olds and 6 year olds in the same class, plus it is costly per year and with the overcrowding situation, you simply can't retain a large number of kids and accept all the new kids coming in. It may not be pretty to talk dollars and cents, but bottom line is that dollars and cents make the whole system work and one has to be mindful of that.

Additionally (back to the should the child be retained question), what exactly does a child have to accomplish in order to not be retained? There is no exact formula. There are no clear expectations, partly because there is not one definitive and accurate way to test knowledge. As I said, I could create a test which would fail most of my students pretty easily.

In a nutshell, the curriculum is bloated, the expectations are unrealistic and universal while children are not, and testing is too frequent and not used as an effective bridge between instruction (due to the curriculum and hundreds of other factors which I don't have time to go into).

Honestly, it's amazing that the kids do so well on these tests. Even in college, when it comes time for the final exam, the instructor often gives you a study guide. Why? Because there's too much material for you to really know what is going to be on the test, and if they pulled random questions (asked in a different way than you've been taught) out from the entire semester, you'd preobably fail.

 

Ohhh and Joel Turtel's web site and book seem to be pushing "low-cost Internet private schools." Quote:

The good news is that your children can now get a quality education and success in school in a low-cost private school. You now have real school choice. Your children don’t have to suffer through 12 years of a mind-numbing, third-rate public-school education.

You can give your kids a quality education right now with low-cost, K-12th grade Internet private schools, and many other education options. Our book, "Public Schools, Public Menace" shows you how.

You'll also discover, "22 ways that busy, working parents can homeschool their kids." These are the same parents who don't spend 5 minutes helping their child with their homework?

Call now and you'll also discover...

What every parent ought to know (but very few do) about public schools
How public schools can cripple your child's ability to read.
How public schools indoctrinate children with anti-parent, anti-American, and anti-Judeo-Christian values.
How public schools pressure parents to give their children potentially dangerous, mind-altering drugs.
How public schools expose innocent children to often shocking sexual material in so-called sex-education classes.

I also love the so-called "Danger Signals" like...

6. Does your child procrastinate until the last minute to do homework?

Now there's a sign of an active, involved parent. One that should consider private internet home schooling, eh?

10. Does your child’s reading or writing ability seem far below what you would expect for his or her grade level?

After all, you're the expert right? Secret: There is no definitive reading or writing level for a particular grade. The standards are the top, what you shoot for, not a definitive definition of what every student will know by the end of the grade.

NOTE: This is NOT a manual on how to operate your kids.

 

To many words SamJimmy, my brain hurts.

Me went to public shcool in neuva york. Escuela muy bueno. Shcool be berry berry good to me. Muy buen. Me work in government job. Me retire in 24 anos, 5 moths, and 2 dazes. Me on break. break muy bueno. Me know too languages form public shcool.
Me berry berry smat. Me start lunch now. Lunch muy bueno.

 

The problem isn't the schools in most cases, it's the kids these days. Look at how Andy turned out.

Just kidding, Andy.

 

I guess the truth hurts sometine, don't it jimmy?

This statement tells me that you have taken the old line that the schools are providing, hook-line-and-sinker. These standards are what put the schools into a sweat every time you ask them to prove why they either did or did not pass a student. These standards are what they base their araguments on when giving out raises to teachers for "jobs well done". Come on now Jimmy, you got to be smarter than that!

 

OldDan, if you missed it before, I'm an educator. I do more than discuss the issues, I am a part of the issue. I'm part of the ground troops so to speak. If you honestly think that a "low-cost Internet private school" is the best choice, by all means, pull your child out of the reading crippling, anti-parent, anti-American, anti-Judeo-Christian values, potentially dangerous, mind-altering drugs pressured, shocking sexual material public schools.

:: hands old Dan a tinfoil hat ::

The statement should tell you that I wrok with children and understand that in any given class (in any given grade) there are children of different abilities in regards to reading, language arts, writing, math, science, etc. Shoulkd we group them based on ability? If so, exactly what ability? Their writing ability? Or would that be their reading ability? Or math? Ohhh, and by the way, tracking (grouping children by ability) is illegal, but for argument's sake, let's say it isn't.

To put it another way, we get children from Mexico that are strong in many Math skills areas, but (not surprisingly) low in their ability to read English. Should we place a 10 year old in 1st grade because his reading ability is 1st grade? And retain him if he is still low at the end of the year?

Apparently you have no to little understanding of how the system works in regards to what the standards mean, why students are retained, teacher raises, etc. It's really far off the mark, but I have a better understanding about the whole thing as I live it and most everyone else just has an uneducated opinon about it.

There are many problems with the education system. I don't feel that the standards themselves are one of them. I think it is a good idea to have a reasonable set of objectives laid out that progress through the grade levels and expand upon one another as the child grows. When they should know what could be a volume of books (big books, many words), let alone a new thread, and certainly can't be covered in a post.

:: pulls his child out of public school and enrolls him in low-cost Internet private school ::

 

Sam what do you think about IEP's for all students (not just sp.ed.), it would solve the problems you outlined (various levels in various subjects).

 

As a teacher, IEPs are time consuming (the meetings in the middle of the day are very disruptive and too many IEP meetings wouldn't be a good thing). They also involved more paperwork and forms (seems we just can't have enough paperwork). They are done more for accountability purposes than really helping the child.

IEPs don't solve anything. We already have "various levels in various subjects." An IEP is just all of that down on paper. Written or not, students are at various levels. Written or not, teachers attempt to further everyone from whatever point they are at to a higher level.

In general though, I like the idea of an individualized lesson plan for each student. It makes a lot of sense to simply identify what students need to know or where they are lacking, and create a plan to help that student, but...

There are already some generic areas in which this could be done (not so individualized, but still). For example, let's say there are 5 students who read slowly (fluency). This is what I mean by generic (you will have students who read slowly). A real plan to help those students would be great (as a teacher, you oddly feel as if this is the first time anyone has ever attempted to educate children, and you're in charge of this new project area).

A school setting isn't one-to-one tutoring, so it is helpful to identify groups of students who need help (called a GEP? ) Problem is, that there isn't one way every agrees on, nor which generically works for *every* child, to help students who are low in reading. That's the kicker. Even if something works, it may not work for every child. So the "plan" (no matter how well thought out) simply may not work.

On the KISS end of things, a spelling pretest is a simple IEP. Students are given the words before at the end of the week, the test is corrected, and each student now has an IEP for Friday's spelling test. That's a real, simple, useful IEP. Of course this IEP doesn't include actually "learning the words" (an important part of the process). But you get the idea.

The problem now (as I see it) is that we have Content Standards, but the curriculum isn't and wasn't written based on these standards (for the most part). We were actually asked once to go through the curriculum and see where/if the standards were addressed. That's backwards.

To put it another way, if i were to teach the math program exactly how they wanted me to teach it (read: pacing... 7-8 lessons in 5 days), I can guarantee you that the students will not know...

N.S. 2.7 Determine the unit cost when given the total cost and number of units.

-at the end of the year. Some might, but most probably won't. I really don't know exactly what students (keeping in mind not every child is the same) is capable of learning and mastering in a given school year. I don't know how much of the standards I could possibily teach (let's say it was a good year, no problems). But what I do know is that it probably isn't everything listed here:

Content Standards

 

I agree that the IEP process would have to be modified and the teacher to student ratio adjusted but with the help of technology we could provide each student with an IEP and trash this cookie cutter system.

 

Please don't get me started on the use of technology in schools. As someone is fairly adept in technology, the use of it (rather lack of) makes me shake.

It takes more than just an IEP though. It's the whole system. Once you identify what the student needs, you need a complete package to educate that child (curriculum, highly skilled and trained teachers, etc.). Keep in mind that you've been trained in educational theory (because that's all it is, as no one really knows), you've never really been trained as to how to put the whole thing together (also known as sink or swim), and you have 8-9 hours of material to teach in less than 7 hours (minus 45 minutes for lunch and ~30 minutes for recess) to people who have the attention span of approximately 6 minutes.

Ohhh, and you just got a call and you have an IEP meeting in 5 minutes which will last nearly an hour.

 

Let me flesh out my idea here. If a student is great at ceramics they should have the opportunity to learn math based on lessons that reference kiln temprature, thereby making it relevent to the student and bringing in prior knowledge. If a student loves to work on cars their math lesson may reference compression ratios or something. Also why don't we have lessons that address each of the standards on a free internet site with streaming video so the students could review at home with a variety of teaching styles?

 

I absolutely agree with you *however* ...

1) It is difficult, if not impossible to design that type of specialized curriculum for the masses (what public education is to some degree).

2) Standardized tests won't have kiln temprature or compression ratios, thus the children have a hard time.

What you are talking about has been researched before. the exact study I'm thinking of was done with low-scoring football players. Comprehension and math problems were changed to football-relevant topics and the players did quite well (more than a minor improvement).

In life though, not everything is relevant and while it might be more interesting to add the price of footballs and helmets, sometimes one has to add up the cost of a jar of jam and 2 cans of peas.

There are plenty of free lessons that address the standards o the internet for parents and teachers to access, however most of my students do not have a computer at home (generally 5-7), and even fewer have internet access (generally 2-3). I don't know about the streaming video, but there is info out there, I see access to it as the biggest problem.

You just can't make assumptions. I'm educated and live in a good area. My students' parents aren't educated (most didn't graduate highschool). They work 2-3 jobs to earn $1,500/mo. and some live in cramped one bedroom apartments (with 5-7 people). There is no "quiet place" for kids to do their homework, no computer, no internet access. The majority speak Spanish and either no English or really limited English, thus have a hard time reading fist grade English, let alone beyond that.

And I'm just talking about what you 'd consider the regular kids. Then there are the disabled or mentally handicapped ones. they are expected to progess as well. they pose additional challenges. There was once a time they were put into special schools or classes, but that is not the trend. Now I, with very limited training, am expected to teach them too (called mainstreaming).

I don't have all the answers, and I'm not trying to make excuses.

There are specific goals, extremely vague ways of reaching those goals, and an overwhelming amount of noise the makes it even harder to do much of anything. Meanwhile, I'm told I'm overpaid, which is funny because I can barely afford my house payments even though I have a Masters degree and have been teaching for 7 years. Pay scale creeps slowly over the next 15 years, raises aren't forthcoming, and heathcare just went up (that is, up $950/mo).

They really should pay us less.

EDIT: Ignore spelling erros, I'm rushing and have to leave for dinner.

 

Read these releases, as you may be about to get a raise!

Census: Nation's Public Schools in the Red
Mar 18 2005 - Kansas City Star
The nation’s public school systems are sinking further into debt, according to a Census Bureau report. Several school districts have huge debts because they need to pay for new buildings to accommodate the latest methods of teaching. Other districts are struggling to find funding to fix older buildings or hire more teachers. The report also found spending for public elementary and secondary school systems increased about nine percent to $453 billion in 2003. That figure includes more than $38 billion alone for increases in teacher’s salarys.


States Dip Heavily Into Leftover Federal Education Money
Oct 6 2005 - CNN.com
New figures show states went on a billion-dollar spending spree in the three months before a Sept. 30 deadline to commit or lose federal education funding. States had to commit to $2.1 billion left over from 2004 by the end of the budget year or lose their right to claim it. Although states do not have to spend the money by the September deadline, they have to earmark the funds toward specific expenses. The Education Department still lists $1.16 billion in unspent money from 2003, including aid for poor or disabled students, according to figures obtained by the Associated Press

Schools must have so much they can't figure out how to spend it anymore.

 

Sam you keep bringing reality into the picture!

 

I know where they don't spend it.

Golly, a department (a government one at that!) spending/earmarking money left from the old budget before the new budget is worked up? This is the first time such a thing has happened in the public or private sector!

I wonder if this happens with the military budgets? Probably not, better leave that alone or increase it, just in case. You know, homeland security and all. $1.16 billion might seem like a huge amount of money, but it's probably the cost of one plane these days.

I don't know much about the rest of the country, but here's a bit (for better or worse) about what's been happening here...

You won't find a press release about those huge salary increases for teachers though. There hasn't been one in years. A couple/few years ago, we had to demand a contract, let alone a raise. It ended up being 5% (first raise in 3-4 years) and funny but that's the last the topic has been brought up. So 3 years ago we got 5% and this year our healthcare went up $857/mo. (not $950 -I didn't have the exact figure before).

You do the math (if the low-cost Internet private school covered that and you're able to).

Yeah, well it's an important part of the puzzle *wink* -but you have some common sense ideas that are good. Even if that particular one isn't feasible, the ideas are on the right track, and new ideas leads to new ways of doing things. Remember, most of the classes you take to become a teacher are educational theory. Educating children is problem solving, and you don't know if you get the answer correct until the end of the year.

OK, here's the result of that dinner last night (with two other teachers). When we get together, we often try to come up with a way to fix things, heh. We decided that a better course of action is to teach skills in grades K-3 and then in 4th grade (when test scores seem to start to plummet), to abandon the workbooks (language arts skills and spelling, etc.) and require the students to instead, spend the year writing a book.

Just about everything could be covered by doing this, and it would be relevant to them. The end result would be personal, real, and much more than a workbook full of answers that the teacher has written on the board for the students to copy. What thinks you?

 

Love that idea you should open a charter school with it