What is up with this Ron Paul guy

Andy,

I am only interested in US politics and what happens here. I really don't care about the internal or foreign policies of other nations.

 

Ron Paul is the only real conservative in the debates. It's funny how people who believe in collectivism, large government and global wars of liberation now consider themselves "conservative." Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

 

The reaction of the audience was highly instructive. It demonstrates the depths to which the country has sunk, and the popularity of perpetual war and unlimited government. I'm not sure Ron Paul's statement that foreign policy activities have consequences can be termed "ridiculous." To me, ridiculous is the belief that actions never have consequences.

 

Jwevansv, you are correct that I will always be against fascism, particulary when it infects my country. Also, thank you for a vivid example of how the enemies of America operate through lies and deceit. Please cite a quote from me or from Dr. Paul that "the ONLY reason we are being attacked" or "we deserved 911" is our opinion. You can't because you are lying. Franky, I think this whole issue is far beyond your intellectual capacity to understand since you have your left foot and right foot mixed up, although both seem to fit nicely in your mouth.

 

edited -- what's the point.

 

Duhhhhh!

At least like most extremists, he doesn't think he is in the center.

 

American foreign policy has almost the sole purpose of furthering our multinationals business interests. This happens again and again in country after country, decade after decade and if you have any doubt that this is happening, you simply aren't paying attention. If you accept this, and the evidence is pretty overwhelming, what might our countries foreign policy be towards governments that would for example, nationalize some or all of their countries industries? Our multinationals would stand to lose huge amounts of money they invested in those countries. The multinationals send their lobbists to Washington and give a few thousand dollars to some congress person to put pressure on this foreign government to either back off or out-and-out depose them from power. Even democratically elected governments are fair game even while we are espousing democracy around the globe. Now these small counties are at odds with the world's superpower over the local interests of their citizens. Our intelligence agencies start screwing around with their internal sovereign affairs and they react to this threat and it can escalate to the point of open war or quite covert hostilities. The only possible winner from our side is some multinational and you and I in a worst case scenario will end up serving in the military to fight for some corporation we couldn't care less for while being told that we are defending democracy. We certainly have no shortage of people willing to do that. But if you told people to go to country X and fight and die for Corporation Z, you'd probably get fewer enlistees.

Now add to this mix a Military industrial complex that looks to that same US government and sees green in supplying the latest cool weapons systems that only can increase their bottom line if the government actually uses those weapons in an actual war. A huge amount of our tax dollars are spent annually buying weapons that will either become obsolete or used in a conflict and need to be replaced at taxpayers expense. How excessive is this? We currently out spend all other counties combined on defense. How wedded to the military industrial complex is our military? Better weapons systems are being passed over because the military personnel in charge of procurement direct government spending towards corporations they will eventually hold lucrative positions with after they retire from the military.

The third prong of our foreign policy is the aid packages we give to other countries like Israel. You believe aid refers to large transfers of US cash to poor counties but in reality, much of it is in the form of obsolete US weapons, depending on who we want this particular country to be the thorn in the side of. The more weapons spread around the world the greater chance there is for war and regional conflicts to arise. What would you do if you were a country that was being assaulted by US supplied weapons? Would you love the US or would you harbor some resentment towards us?

Back home we are fed lines like service to your country, support the troops, defend freedom, spread Democracy, etc. and the reality is that while the military did once stand for those ideas and does even today to some degree, the greater honor and dignity that once define our military soldiers has morphed into a bunch of hollow, meaningless slogans designed to recruit young American kids for the US corporate assault on the rest of the world. And you think our foreign policy has nothing to do with being attacked. The innocent people who died on 9/11 didn't deserve what happened to them but there are citizens of this country that clearly deserve some type of retribution for their actions abroad.

John, I think Cloudy is smack dab on the mark when he says you don't have the intellectual capacity to fully understand the complexity of this and I have only laid out the barest of bones of the depth of this complicated relationship. You would have to read quite a bit of material with an open mind to even scratch the surface of this issue. But maybe you understand how I might view all of this pro-American without any indepth knowledge rhetoric you and others here are so fond of touting. You think you know what you are talking about because you bought the slogans as they were presented to you. I don't believe you are stupid or an idiot, you just lack the education necessary to come to an informed opinion about the real effect of our foreign policies. I'm sure this is all lost on you but maybe others will benefit from reading it or maybe not.

 

Moen, Thanks for taking the time to spell it out. Someone will probably benefit from reading it even if jwevansv does not. I think he probably means well and thinks he is supporting America when he supports the war and the official government position. I also think he is deathly afraid of being "liberal." But Ron Paul, Pat Buchanan, William F. Buckley Jr., Francis Fukuyama and Cliff Kincaid have come to the understanding that there is nothing moral, "conservative," or beneficial to the USA to staying the course in the Middle East. This is hardly a list of liberals. Ronald Reagan was smart enough to recognize and correct the mistake of sending troops over there. There is no dishonor in doing so.

 

You are right and there centainly are good people on both sides of the aisle that understand this situation. The true believers, also an excellent book by Eric Hoffer, can't seperate themselves from the propaganda they internalize. Unfortunately we have our share of those people here.

 

I guess. It sure seemed like you were speaking in general terms and not just about a few people. Thats alright though. I'm not going to communicate with anyone who just insults everyone who doesn't agree with them, or even just questions what exactly they meant by their angry rantings.

 

We are being attacked rather brilliantly by an enemy that understands us better than we understand ourselves. Most people are unaware of the relationship between our actions abroad and the comsequences that come home to roost from such actions. You hear the question, "Why do they hate us", asked so often because most US citizens are far more concerned about Paris Hilton going to jail or Britney Spears shaving her head than how we are being represented abroad. Our enemies have made it clear that they make no distiction between innocent women and children and US soldiers in their fight to bring us down. This sounds untterly barbaric to us and it is meant to. If they can't win militarily, they will force the public to wake up to what is happening overseas with the full support of our government with horrific attacks like 9/11. Either way, they win.

It is brilliant in it's conception and simplicity. A flash war that can never be defeated no matter how many resources and bullets we throw at it. It just keeps reinventing itself and popping up every once in a while to remind us to live in fear. They have the US government and a large proportion of it's citizens dancing at the end of a puppet string because they know us so well and we refuse to recognize the enemy we are up against. If things continue as they have, we will only lose more ground to the enemy.

If we learn to adjust or tactics and stop fighting last centuries wars, we have a chance to gain the upper hand and eventually defeat this ideology. We first have to stop fighting among ourselves and put everything on the table and come up with some unconventional solutions. We haven't made it that far yet and if this forum is any indication, we won't be there anytime soon either.

 

I really don't need to read what MOEN posts, it is an attempt to obfuscate. He is plain stupid. I have to correct just about everything he types. Get a life. If you have to post a documentary you are full of sh_t!

 

You certainly nailed that one on the head Cloudy. You gotta wonder what kind of people came together and breeded that. If nothing else, it just reaffirms my distaste for Texans. Armpit of the nation that place.

 

Speaking of arm pits, what do you think that fishy smell coming out of Illinois is all about?