the Republicans handled healthcare poorly

Obama is about to get fed up and tell them to take a walk. They have lied about and criticized his efforts and he has been pretty patient, but that is about to end. He gave them a chance to have a voice in this and they decided to act rudely so he will probably go with the 50 votes in the senate and pass a pretty liberal bill. They had their chance and they blew it.

 

Who lied?
Was Obama telling the truth when he said the AARP endorsed his plan? I don't think so.
Was Obama being forthright when associates were planted in the audeiences of his town hall meetings?
Has Obama been honest when he says his plan will bbe budget neutral?
I believe Obama is circling the wagons & forcing members of Congress to take the so-called Nuclear Option because the citizenry is opposed to the scam & he is losing support every day.

 

All of those "points" are really beside the point. What I am saying is that Obama does not need the Republicans, he tried to get their ideas in the bill and they kicked him in the balls. He reached out in a bi-partisan way and they kicked him in the balls. Now that is over and it looks like he will just go ahead without them and pass a uber-liberal bill with 50 senators instead of 60 (and I do not blame him one bit).

 

Danr, c'mon. There is no doubt that little girl was invited and that he was directed to her. Whether he knew she was planted or not, I'll give him the doubt.

 

I really do not know about that incident but the point I am making is that he seems fed up with the Republicans. He invited them to add their ideas and they responded with a kick to the balls. He really did not have to offer them the opportunity to participate in crafting this bill (he could have pulled a Bush), but he reached out and look at what he got.

 

Of course the odds are in favour of her been a plant but please guy's why the big act of suprise? No other politician ever have a plant in the audience LOL

 

Yea, and the last democrat pres even smoked his "plant". But he didn't inhale!

 

So what's he waiting for? In case you don't want to answer, it's simple. Obama knows it's an unpopular, reckless scheme & the people are seeing it for the simple power grab play that it is.

"points" = facts in this case...don't lose sight of that.

 

I have the feeling that he won't be waiting much longer.

 

I like the fact that the hard left sticks to it's guns like DanR, just as we on the hard right stick to ours. Thats the beauty of a free society. We can disagree on the fundamentals without fear of reprisal. ( So far.... )

I can predict however, that there will be a bloodbath in 2010 for the Dems because the American people do not want this plan, only the radical Dems in power want this plan and have gone on record saying they will vote against their constituants wishes.

The Repos would prefer that this goes in solid Dem. It will be an excellent campaign tool in the future, with zero blame on the Repos.

Who will lose? Thats debatable, but lets say hello to a larger government, for the government and by the government. This passes and America is no longer the represenative republic it started out as. America will lose.

He is waiting to try to convince the Dems to vote for this. Only the radical wing supports it, the mods and indy leaning know a yes vote is political suicide. They just pushed the deficit up another 2 trillion yesterday and America sees this.

 

Basically Obama is in charge (elections have consequences) and he was very generous to give the Republicans a chance to put their ideas in the bill. The problem is that the republicans do not understand that.

 

Be real DanR, Pelosi gave marching orders to NOT speak to Repos.....Nancy and Harry are roadblocks.

Any good Repo would not want to be associated with this bill anyways. Then, the entire blame, 100% of it can be tied to the Dems. I pray the Dems go it alone. I wish they had went the stimulus alone as well.

Votes also have ramifications.....we will see that in 2010.

 

Interesting viewpoint AJ and let's assume you're 100% correct for sake of argument.
So in 2010 the Dems fall. Let's jump even further and assume that in 2012 we get a Rep President and a majority of Reps in charge.

Would they push through a reform of reform? If they did who would it help? Would it just put things back to status quo so we, as a country, could start it all over again?
Then we do it again in 2016 and so on and so on.

Who loses in the long run? The Republicans? The Democrats? No, they'll do fine. The people they supposedly "represent" are the ones that lose. That would be the American people.

Now as a group here, be you far left, far right or somewhere in between I feel we ARE all tax payeing law abiding citizens. Something we all seem to have in common.

We are a small group though aren't we? Now is the "average" American like this? I sure don't see it.
What I do see is a lot of misinformed people on both sides of the fence are scared. There's lots of "boogymen" out there.
Our politicians feed this to the minions be it right or wrong with little compassion for the people that make up this country.

How long until people have had enough? If we keep going as we are there will come a time when it really boils over. It's happening already isn't it?
Look at our last election, look at town hall meetings. It's getting ugly.
Our two party system sucks and just digs us a deeper hole. I don't care who's in office if/when it REALLY boils over.

So the politicians do fine while the gap between the "haves" and "have nots" grows. One can quote the Constiturion all day but it's nothing but a document to people that work hard, have kids and are barely making ends meet.
Rebelling is human nature. It has happened for centuries.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with what you posted, clembo, but one statement you made illustrates the root disagreement between libs & conservatives. It isn't a "have vs have nots" thing. It really isn't. Whenever libs use that as ammo against the conservative point of view it reminds me of Al Sharpton & Jessie Jackson crying "racism" just to get their way.

 

I just do not see that. I know that that hype is out there but I am talking about what is actually happening not the hype. I would be VERY surprised if you could back that assertion up with a reputable source.

 

Cool DanR, I love a challange.

Pelosi has many times blocked out entirely the Repos, here is but a few examples. Please dont make me spank you with examples. I can.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=32718

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/cantor-complains-pelosi-refuses-to-meet-with-him-2009-06-08.html

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/16/pelosi-gags-republicans-to-save-dems-from-embarrassment/

Now on to Clembo. You are correct.
I will state my opinion.

America needs a revolution. Not a war fought with muskets nor bayonetts, grenades or rifles, but a revolution fought with debate and ballots.

We need ALL these fookers gone. We cannot win a war against our government with bullits, but we can win with ballots and ideals.

 

I can understand what you are saying as well David but Libs, have nots and Sharpton and Jackson really shouldn't be put in the same sentence in a reality sense.

If you think all Libs are big fans of Sharpton and Jackson you are dead wrong. It really does come down to a skin color issue there I'm afraid in too many cases.
Personally I can't stand either one and would venture to guess the majority of other Libs don't either.

As for the "haves" and "have nots" I really do think it is an issue. I'm not talking Dems or Reps here David. I'm talking people.
You may conjure up Jackson and Sharption in your mind when "haves" and "have nots" is mentioned. A lot of people do and that may be dangerous for this country in the long run. I'm not using this as a "Lib ammo point" dude.

That's really my point. It will come down to a human nature point eventually. If the politicians (and I mean ALL of them) keep playing games that sink the "average" American deeper into the hole eventually people will rise up.

People just get kinda funny when they work for a living and still can't afford to pay the mortgage/rent, utilities and food.
Whether or not they are "entitled" to it doesn't matter at that point. People get desperate and desperate people do desperate things.

 

Can you give me a real legit source on that that talks about healthcare like NYT WSJ or even Azcentral. Those are right wing blogs.

 

Hey AJ I will go you one better, to have a revolution without bloodshed , this could be fixed real quick and in a hurry. Stop spending for a day, now hear me out. If every American agreed that to send a message to Washington did not spend, or swipe a card for an entire day. We would have those in Washington's attention.
Washington knows this but won't tell us, but it really would not matter because since The Revolutionary War, we have been unable to agree unanimously as a country. As long as we have this in fighting, Washington will conduct business as usual.

It is true that the citizens of this great nation will be the ones that pay, but has that not been the case all along? I still believe in the 2 party system but feel our duly elected need to abide by the wishes of the constituents.

 

OK guys it seems we're in somewhat agreement here and that alone is a good sign while being a bit scary at the same time.

AJ,

I'd love to see our problems solved at the ballot boxes but how realistic is that really?
You already know I have voted Republican, Democrat and Independent. Still our country is a mess.
A big part of that mess is those that will staunchly vote for one party and one party only. Would that be a fair take on it?

Now granted this line of thinking has been going on for a long time but it's getting more scary to me for reasons I've already
mentioned.
Therefore I reiterate this country needs MORE than two parties. A strong third party might actually make the average American think a bit more.

Sure we have other parties in the race but it really comes down to money and who backs the individuals. Ron Paul's name was heard as was Ross Perot's but neither had a chance honestly. At least they were heard.

Now for Elmo,

Well, it's great in theory. Just like boycotting gas stations for a day is great in theory.
I can understand your compassion for such an act but it would affect nothing. Why? - because just like gasoline people would go out and buy it the next day.

This all puts us back at square one IMHO. Politicians manipulate the masses and the masses set themselves up for it.

They need to change their tune in order for this country to become what it once was. If not the repercussions coulnd be catastrophic.