The Proverbial Loss of Freedoms

The question has been ask in several posts and references have been made in a like number of post as to the 'loss of Freedoms' since Bush took office.

Well, now is your chance to list those freedoms that you lost. Simply saying that this or that was lost will not qualify as a legitimate loss. You must demonstrate and document the loss and when it occured. Be specific and stop beating around the Bush!

I don't really expect this thread to last very long as I'm doubtful that we will have that many answers to the question that is qualified to be counted. Have fun!:whistle:

 

I put this one to rest and showed your point of view to be completely out there. Now I guess you are back for more punishment.

http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=16213&page=2

First Amendment – Freedom of speech, press, religion, peaceable assembly, and to petition the government.
"Free speech zones" violate the1st, as does the current administrations dealing with the press. Many other examples of this right being violated exist.


Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure
Wiring tapping violates this right

Fifth Amendment – Due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, private property.
Gitmo


Sixth Amendment – Trial by jury and other rights of the accused.
Gitmo

Eighth Amendment – Prohibition of excessive bail, as well as cruel and unusual punishment.
torture


Tenth Amendment – Powers of states and people
NCLB

Many other violations exist these are the most obvious to me. We ought to keep adding to this list.

This attitude that our rights have not been violated is MUCH more dangerous than any of this phoney terrorism cr*p.

 

Danr, I have to agree with OldDan here. None of this has affected you.

 

If you think that the freedoms that this nation is based on are unimportant than maybe it does not effect me. I happen to value these freedoms.

 

It's would be a sad state of moral affairs if everyone in this country were concerned about protecting only the rights from which they directly benefit, and give no consideration to any of the rights that protect others.

 

Sometimes the loss of freedom happens gradually. The greatest danger isn't so much what is immediately lost. It is the procedures that are put in place to enable the loss to occur at a future date that suits the government. None of us really know whether our phone calls are tracked or internet usage monitored. It doesn't matter whether anything is done with the data now. The potential is there for future abuse. All of us are required to pay the taxes and/or bear the burden of the national debt incurred to pay for all of this stuff. That's a pretty direct outcome. I've also noticed more and more of the European style municipal security cameras scattered around a few towns -- paid for by the Dept of Homeland Security no doubt. But we won't count that for now.

As far as little things that directly affect me, I can think of four. A woman who works at our county library told us that for the past few years they send a monthly file to a federal government location summarizing all of the books loaned out to each individual during the past month. What's up with that? She doesn't know; it's just a new requirement. Another interesting thing happened to my son when he recently opened a new brokerage account [Scottrade]. Dept of Homeland Security regulations now require the submissions of photocopies of personal ID including a social security card and drivers license [or so he was told and forced to do]. In the past it was only necessary to provide the numbers on the new account forms but not physical copies of documents. Again, a small thing for now to get people used to the idea of carrying more identification. Third, it is becomming more difficult to travel without a passport, even to traditionally open and friendly countries like Canada or even to board a cruise ship. Fourth, my employer required me to provide proof of citizenship recently or face termination of employment. Another Homeland Security requirement I was told. I was born and raised in this country and found this to be mildly offensive, particularly because it was delivered to me in a highly threatening manner. It was even surprisingly difficult because a birth certificate was not accepted as sufficient proof of citizenship. Try proving you were born in the USA without being able to use a birth certificate!

None of this is a big deal in the grand scheme of things. None of it life changing. But the trend is clear. Your papers must be in order comrade.

 

No Child Left Behind has a negative impact on education and I think we are all oncerned about that.

 

Would you go back and read the the initial post, please! No where in the question did I say or use the word "violate/violation and/or violated". Please stick to the question and use the word "loss or lost" as intended. This is fairly elementary and even you should have no problem remembering the one word.

Now go back and try it again, and this time tell me what freedom did YOU loose?.

 

What you have described could be applied to growing old. Something I hope you will someday experience for yourself. Now tell me what freedom in all this did you loose? I'm having a hard time trying to find these freedoms that people are talking about, but can not name. Put a name on it and bring it to the table, please.

 

If you do not consider the loss of your fellow citizen's rights to be the loss of your rights you are simply not an American.

 

1) I can no longer drive through millions of acres of "public land" in the western United States because Democrats like Diane Feinstein have passed federal laws (RARE I, RARE II, The Wilderness Act, CDCA, etc) empowering the USFS, BLM, and the USPS to codify regulations that prohibit you and me from doing so.

There are many wonerful places in the western USA that I have seen and most of you will never see because liberal urban Democrats have made these areas off-limits to the general public. All this was done solely for political power and money that comes from campaign contributions and votes of environmental activists and special-interest PACs like the Sierra Club and the Nature Conservancy.

2) I can no longer purchase rock products at local quarries because the rock quarries have been shut-down, and the owners and employees financially ruined, by Democrat and Republican politicians and high-;evel State bureaucrats. The recent quarry closures represent the culmination of a ten-year campaign by a cobal of mid-level regulators and key high-level State bureaucrats with personal issues against the operator. Many of those involved in the conspiracy are members of the afore-mentioned environmental PACs. Residents of this County now pat twice as much for rock products due to transportation costs. Traffic and air pollution has been incrementally impacted also.

3) I must carry uninsured motorist coverage because Republican and Democrat politicians and bureaucrats will not inforce immigration and motor vehicle laws. By the same token, I must pay taxes to support the health and welfare of millions of individuals that live in this State illegally.

4) I am somewhat limited where I can safely travel, day or night, because the politicians, police, and courts allow unmitigated crime to occur in certain areas of the State. I am not allowed to carry a concealed weapon under any circumstance. We all have to lock our doors and look over our shoulders.

I think that there may be another dozen freedoms that I have lost over the past 40 years, but to my knowledge, none of these relate directly to the current Bush Administration.

 

QD you are a lost case. 666 (Reagan) started charging to go into Fed parks.
And to force motorists to have ins is an illegal tax (it forces citizens to pay tax to private businesses)
Crime goes down under Dems and up under Reps (look it up)

And quarry closures, that issue is way up there with terrorism and the price of trout on Mars.

I think this thread is about stuff like the PATRIOT ACT not rock quarries.

 

Freedoms Ive lost: Freedom from stupidity
Proof and documentation: See above posts.

 

It is a shame that you take your freedoms so lightly.

 

I was making a joke at how serious everyone is taking this discusson of personal opionion. From what I can see my freedoms arent all that infringed on right now, my life hasnt changed much since 9/11 other than that it takes a lot longer at the airport and at the borders when we take trips to mexico... but I mean... would you rather have the building you work at bombed and not have better security? You focus on the negatives and forget about the fact that america got owned on 9/11 and thousands of american citizens died, I dont care what your political affiliations are that is something we cant allow to happen again. Sure the American Government is flawed, democracy is flawed, but if you dont like it, leave, atleast you can have a discussion like this and complain about it, but if you arent willing to do anything but complain then I am not willing to take you seriously.

 

They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security

Ben Franklin

 

I dont see the freedom of bringing nail clippers on an airplane as an essential liberty

 

Listening in on phone calls, and grabbing up library records, torture. yea that is wrong, VERY wrong.

 

Actually this requirment was around long before 9/11 and Bush. I have been required to obtain this proof whenever I hire someone as far back as 1992. And even then the identification had to be a govt. issued ID. You will see this used more often when applying for Govt. related jobs.

 

I listed some pretty specific items Old Dan. Nothing earth-shattering, but everything real. Some of the posts in this thread are too general for your liking. Others are too specific. Perhaps growing old also enables one to see only what they want to see and shut out the rest. If you need names or labels on things to understand them, then I guess it would be privacy and freedom of movement. It doesn't matter that I haven't actually been prohibited from anything. Being constantly monitored and requiring government permission isn't the same thing as having personal liberty. So write that down and read it every day:

Permission isn't liberty
Permission isn't liberty
Permission isn't liberty
Permission isn't liberty...