The Pledge of Allegiance to America

Well said OKC and I'll support this belief any day in the week and twice on weekends, so to speak. At least I wanted you to know that there are two of us that feel this way.

 

You always want to check all post before shooting off your mouth. Read the thread that you started and you will know what I mean. Oh yes, one more thing...stop trying to say something that isn't said by the other person, it will cause you a lot of sleepless nights and we sure don't want that now do we. Be cool young friend!:high5:

 

Thanks, OldDan! But, I also respect dissenting point of view. That's what makes this country so wonderful.

 

If I hear one thing more about the pledge, i willl go post offfice and zap the whole stinking gook country

 

Well, this thread is entitled "Pledge of Allegiance" you know...

 

I can agree with most of what you said here Scotty and I can accept the rest as a matter of opinion and personal belief, but I am curious about the first paragraph. How was fighting in a small country located at the underbelly of Asia fighting for OUR rights? Where did our rights come into play? And since we lost that war, did we lose our rights? Please list the rights we lost, I want to keep track so I don't try to exercise any rights that I don't have anymore.
58,000 young Americans lost their lives there and I think we owe them and their families an explanation as to why we were there. I still can't get a straight answer after all this time.

 

Without going into a pedantic history of the war, suffice it to say that it was fought to fend back communism. Politicize and spin that as much as you want, but at the time, communism was a big and VERY REAL threat to America. I had no desire to live under a communist state, did you?

My father and my brother chose to fight in Vietnam if for no other reason than to secure for armchair liberals the right to ask why we were fighting.

 

Yeah! I've heard those rationalizations before. I understand that the Cold War was fought in many places in the world with Russia supporting one side and the US supporting the other side. Communism vs Capitalism, I get it, but the entire premise of your assertion is false since we lost that war and lost no rights nor are we living under Communism.
I doubt your father and brother thought much about "armchair Liberals" while being shot at and the armchair Liberals had the right to ask why we were fighting then and they have it today inspite of your father and brother's best efforts. I don't believe that was the right we were fighting for since we lost and still have it.
Can you come up with some rights that we were fighting for and maybe even lost due to our non-winning in some small country in South Asia?

 

You just don't get it, do you, Moen?

If a neighbor's tree is growing into your yard, you prune it. If you cease pruning the tree, it doesn't mean that you've forfeited your yard; you've just given up the fight against the tree. The tree will keep growing into your yard or it will die. Thankfully, communism died.

 

An individual who choose not to serve their country will NEVER fully understand why those who choose to serve their country did it. Nothing wrong with either individual, it's just those who did serve get tired of being told the various reasons those who didn't, well didn't.

 

I think I've told you that I don't get it already. But I'll say it again, I don't get how our rights were saved/lost as a result of the Vietnam war. I also don't know what this has to do with my neighbor's tree in South Asia. Last time I looked at the globe, South Asia was on the other side of the world.
But if I get what you are saying, we fought there because communism was a threat to us in some way. I can understand that. But nobody ever says that we are going to war to fight communism. They always say we are going to war to protect our rights, our freedom, our way of life, to spread democracy, to keep them from coming here. You said as much above. It just seemed odd to me that we lost that war and none of those things actually happened. Maybe they were just slogans in the first place? Did you ever consider that possiblity before you interalized them and began to use them yourself?

 

And those of us that didn't choose to serve in that way get tired of being told that we can't understand because we don't belong to some secret club and that club seems to have no interest, ability, desire to rationally explain the policies that necessitated the conflict in the first place. Once you are in the military, a soldier's job is to do what he/she is told and damn the policies that brought him/her to that point. But once you are no longer in the military and are exactly equal to the rest of us civilians, why is so had to question policies that may or may not make sense for the good of this country?

 

^^^Ahem, the stereotypes go on and on...

I've always found out the the most knowledgable individuals about a subject, any subject are the ones who've actually worked on or with the subject in question...

 

A. Which steroetypes?

B. What subject would a soldier be more knowledgeable about?

C. And what does ^^^ mean?

 

^^^ Afraid you're going to have to do your own research on these three questions. However, the answers you seek are just as few clicks away...

I will give you a hint on on of them. "I invented it."

 

You want me to research YOU????

Again, you make a statement without any forethought and when asked to explain you are unable. I guess I'm just going to have to get used to that from you and accept it as just that way you are. You are unique in this form.

 

There is a saying that you can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink!

This is where we find ourselves with this issue. You will never understand or kinow what is being said, for the simple reason you refuse to 'hear'. That is all there is to it, and no amount of discussion will change it.
You have gone deaf and apparently dont know it. Sorry about that old buddy!

 

You get things a lot faster if you say "Please..." I'll pretend you asked like a normal human being.

1. ^^^ references the above post when you don't feel like quoting.

2. Your overall views about the mentality of military members is stuck in the Gomer Pyle/Sad Sack days. I can assure you, the intelligence of the average military member goes well beyond your stereotypes. There is even an Astronaut Training Program available for those Soldiers, Airmen, Marines, and Seamen who qualify. However, a good book to read if you can find it is "Up Front" by Bill Mauldin nodoubt it will further enforce your archaic opinions, but it's funny as hell.

3. Now, with the information you've been provided I'm sure you figure out the last one...

God Bless
Ben

 

Fair enough. I don't recall stereotyping all soldiers and Gomer Pyle but you may have interpreted something I said that way. One of my best friends joined the Air Force out of college and he was one of the smartest people I had ever met. The IQ of the voluntary military recruit has increased a great deal since the end of the draft and I wouldn't say that it was a that low to begin with. There are always some court ordered recruits, misfits, and dumbasses to be found but overall there has been a steady increase in the educational level of young recruits.

What I don't believe is that soldiers are better qualified to make policy decisions just for having served in the military. That is counter-intuitive. Soldiers aren't trained to question authority in any way and on average are probably less likely to do so after basic training. I also don't believe that they are actually less qualified either, but like anyone else, they need to look at policies with an open mind. Therein lies the rub.

 

You are a condesending idiot.:goof: