THE Humanity! Beer Prices Going UP

mimus wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 03:51:00 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
>
>
>>mimus wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:06:04 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>mimus wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 09:16:24 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>mimus wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 03:05:00 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>mimus wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 04:02:08 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>dave hillstrom wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:15:37 -0600, "Dennis M. Hammes"
>>>>>>>>>>><scrawlmark@arvig.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>dave hillstrom wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:04:48 -0500, mimus <tinmimus99@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:54:59 -0600, TheBookman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:07:23 -0500, dave hillstrom wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:15:36 -0500, mimus <tinmimus99@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:09:26 +0000, Aratzio wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:24:05 -0500, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom <DaVe@MeOw.OrG>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>bloviated:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:22:01 GMT, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.mercurynews.com/foodheadlines/ci_8311983
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hop and Barley prices have increased dramatically, price for *good*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>beer is going up. Bud-water and Curs unaffected.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>good thing i brew my own fermented beverages.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And the cost is going up, IF you can get the good hops anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You can substitute several things for hops with good results, including
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>catnip and pot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Not to mention all the horrible other things you can wrestle into the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boil-bags.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>indeed. hops were not used in beer until rather recently, i believe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>between 700 AD and 1,000 AD. before that, they used all kinds of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>stuff, including hot red pepper.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Unless you're referring to red peppecorns (unlikely or at least very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>uncommon, IMO, given the expense), red (chile) peppers cannot have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>used to flavor beer before 1492CE, since they originated from the "New
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>World", along with potatoes and tomatoes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HTH.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Didn't, like, the Toltecs or Olmecs or anyone brew beer?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>sure they did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>everyone brewed beer of some sort.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>although its still somewhat up in the air about whether beer, wine, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>mead were first on the human fermentables calendar. the probability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>is beer or mead, which ferment far faster than wine, but who knows?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>were talking like 8000 BC or more back in history.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Right, and cereal grains date back only to 5000 BCE and the founding
>>>>>>>>>>>>of Jericho around the discovery of Emmer wheat, or 3000> BCE and rice
>>>>>>>>>>>>in the Orient.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Honey is relatively rare (until commercial hay-fields) and incurs
>>>>>>>>>>>>some difficulty in the harvest, particulary for a people without
>>>>>>>>>>>>ready (made from scratch) fire. Honey is also self-preserving, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>will not ferment unless diluted and forced.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Berries are likely first of that group, are more common than
>>>>>>>>>>>>fruits, esp. the modern, large-pulp varieties, and several will
>>>>>>>>>>>>produce all season.
>>>>>>>>>>>>However one wonders if Adam actually ate apple or got plonked on
>>>>>>>>>>>>natural cider (cf. Frost's "The Cow in Apple-Time"), hence the
>>>>>>>>>>>>Injunction.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>However, the most-likely "first" is one of the known root-starches.
>>>>>>>>>>>>The earliest under cultivation were various water-lilies (lotus,
>>>>>>>>>>>>e.g.) in the Tigris, Nile, Indus, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>What makes it difficult is that written records postdate Jericho,
>>>>>>>>>>>>and that the materials of undistilled booze are ephemeral and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>tools common pots, obviating archeological evidence.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>making it even harder, one theory has that people travelling around
>>>>>>>>>>>even pre civilization would make containers out of skins for water.
>>>>>>>>>>>the theory says that they might even put in fruits or honey for taste,
>>>>>>>>>>>which of course would have wild yeast on it, and so by seeming magic,
>>>>>>>>>>>a skin here or there would produce an alcoholic elixer. and of course
>>>>>>>>>>>that skin would become imbued with yeast such that pretty much any
>>>>>>>>>>>water/sugar addition would do the trick! and yer just not gonna find
>>>>>>>>>>>a skin like this in the archeological record.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Perzakly.
>>>>>>>>>>But the funny thing about statistics is this, that if a thing has
>>>>>>>>>>only a chance in a billion of happening, it's fuken well gonna happen.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>No no no, that's only if it's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>exactly
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>a million to one against.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>(The Adams-Pratchett Axiom of Improbability.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Douglas Adams?
>>>>>>>>(It's a real axiom, and a lot older than he.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Douglas Adams, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy," "The
>>>>>>Restaurant at the Edge of the Universe," etc., which makes extreme
>>>>>>use of various improbabilities and pseudoparadoxes in theoretical
>>>>>>"physics," incl. "The Improbability Drive."
>>>>>> All(?) such "theories" exist only in isolation; Adams simply plugs
>>>>>>them back into mainstream reality and cackles at the "results."
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes, yes?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Are you speaking simply of the truism that anything not impossible can
>>>>>>>happen, no matter how unlikely, or something even grottier?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Approximately; it's merely an "opening lesson" in almost any
>>>>>>statistics course/book, i.e., that anything that has even a
>>>>>>vanishingly small probability of happening damwell /will/ eventually
>>>>>>happen, i.e., that it's inevitable.
>>>>>> It's a crucial point of subatomic physics, planetology, and
>>>>>>cosmology often forgotten by the careless and never learned by those
>>>>>>who would rather be Faithful.
>>>>>
>>>>>"Crucial"? I'd go with the more likely stuff, meself, like what happens to
>>>>>a free neutron after about fifteen minutes or at most within an hour or
>>>>>two (OK, some may never blow).
>>>>
>>>>Most of my "somewheres" have the half-life of a neutron at ~ten minutes.
>>>> And the result is hydrogen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It's enough to make your hair stand on end.
>>>>
>>>>You might could, as you've just jotted me into considering the most
>>>>probable emission of a White Hole to be a neutron (conservation of
>>>>charge across the Center Horizon, etc.), which blows fresh hydrogen
>>>>into the equation (universe) in ten minutes, a.s.
>>>> It's /hideously/ simpler than electron/positron or
>>>>proton/antiproton pairs, e.g.; Occam LUUUves you, tnx.
>>>
>>>The next step after all the little bangs is globular clusters.
>>
>>Perzackly. When they go bang, you get the Population I stuff with
>>the heavy elements, like us.
>
>
> All iron is old iron. Very very old iron.
>

Except for the bits that blew out of the most recent nova.
In a Black Hole, iron (and everything else) recycles to neutrons,
thence to hydrogen (White Holes). Q.v.

>
>>>> And while squeezing +- pairs most likely results in a pair of
>>>>gamma rays, there's no theory or evidence that they cross the Center
>>>>Horizon any more than they do the Event Horizon, whereas squeezing an
>>>>incompressible egg causes it to be laid, so...
>>>
>>>Chicken or turtle?
>>
>>Neutron, according to the thesis you just jogged me into.
>> Consider the incompressibility of a neutron star, and the "known"
>>"evaporation" of Black Holes, however that theory has them
>>"evaporating" half a photon pair at a time from the /surface/ (Event
>>Horizon) only.
>> It's far more (i.e., immediately) probable that the stuff (i.e.,
>>as neutrons) is "squeezed out" of the /center/, but this requires
>>aetheric theory.
>> No, Michelson did /not/ disprove its existence, only its "drag."
>>There are four blatant errors in his abstract alone, and three of 'em
>>wouldn't have been committed by a competent grade-schooler.
>> He was hired to do what he did so that "There can be no doubt that
>>the Law is whatever the people want" (Holmes, /The Common Law/, 1881).
>>
>>Squeeze a neutron hard enough in all dimensions, it goes flat (point,
>>maybe a "naked singularity," but Hawking said it's an entity and
>>persists -- the recanted part -- where a point is merely a temporary
>>coordinate set, not an object).
>> This increases aetheric pressure, q, by the amount of one neutron.
>> Aether is perfectly elastic (cf. Michelson-Morley).
>> That pressure pops out a neutron (White Hole) "somewhere,"
>>anywhere "space-time" ("aether") isn't being "squeezed," and has
>>"space" and "time" to oscillate.
>>
>>
>>>>>Not least in its many (and mostly unregarded) implications.
>>>>
>>>>Well, there's one more.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>I fixed the API Axiom above. Sorry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The actual principle has no specific coefficient, and I've never
>>>>>>heard (to remember it) that it had an attribution name.
>>>>>
>>>>>That's Pratchett's emendation of the Adamsian theory of the greater the
>>>>>improbability the greater the probability.
>>>>
>>>>Hunh. It's one way to put it. Yes.
>>>
>>>They're really only talking about _extreme_ im/probabilities.
>>
>>Yes; the rest are all around you alla time.
>> You, e.g.
>>
>>
>>>>>> One feels that Zeno would have propounded it, but then he missed
>>>>>>so damned much that was right next to what he knew that it makes one
>>>>>>leery of using "any," "all," or "none" in any context outside the
>>>>>>strictly logical.
>>>>>
>>>>>Considering that the propositional logic was not separated out from set
>>>>>theory until George Boole's _An Investigation of the Laws of Thought_
>>>>>(1854), and the mathematics of form not separated out from propositional
>>>>>logic until George Spencer Brown's _Laws of Form_ (1964), I have a
>>>>>somewhat jaundiced view of earlier philosophy, not to mention the "Age of
>>>>>Reason".
>>>>
>>>>Aristotle's sets were merely incomplete, but he founded a
>>>>propositional logic on them that had become a primer litany by the
>>>>Middle Ages: "Barbara, Celarent, Dorii, Fortieris," each with rules
>>>>of conversion, inversion, and contraposition.
>>>> Boole completed the sets far more than the priests could permit,
>>>>which is why they've been bitching about "golems" ever since (cf.
>>>>Wiener's Second Edition of /Cybernetics/ (1964) and Crick's recanting
>>>>of DNA (~1985)).
>>>
>>>?
>>
>>DNA + cybernetics = "golems," "robots," yatta, that priests can't
>>afford to admit. (They're quasi-golems, "vampires.")
>
>
> I was actually questioning the "recanting".
>

Ah. Well, see their own books. Wiener added two chapters to the
1933 in 1964, apologising for having supposed man was a mathematical
golem, and Crick wrote a new book from the top apologising for the
thought that man might be a reproducible mechanism.

>
>>>> I didn't find any inclusions of the "old logic" into Boolean/Venn
>>>>notations, or the latter into conjunctions/prepositions, so I did it
>>>>myself.
>>>
>>>See Appendix 2 of _Laws of Form_ for the propositional logical foundation
>>>of set reasoning . . . .
>>
>>It all depends on the word "belongs," eh?
>> And since everything "belongs" to the priests, there is no other
>>classification and no such thing as logic.
>> There is only Received Doctrine.
>>
>>
>>>>>The Greeks in particular along with their many splendid achievements
>>>>>made many philosophical howlers as well, as could only be expected (I
>>>>>accept and sympathize with "first gropings" as a rational plea in
>>>>>mitigation of such things as the "spiritual hypothesis", although that
>>>>>plea withers with time), and moving on to more complex matters one can
>>>>>only hope that Plato's _Republic_ was a joke, a satire on Sparta and/or
>>>>>Utopia-building, although one fears not.
>>>>
>>>>It wasn't, sri. He /knew/ who buttered his bread in return for saying
>>>>they "ruled."
>>>
>>>I've always enjoyed the widespread respect-- as evidenced by the very
>>>adoption of the title to be representative-- accorded Thomas More's
>>>_Utopia_, under which only Christians could be citizens, Jews second-class
>>>citizens, Moslems slaves, and atheists robbed or murdered with legal
>>>impunity:
>>>
>>>It says so much about More and Christianity and "Western Culture" over the
>>>last several centuries.
>>
>>It seZ even More than that, eh?
>>
>>
>>>> "Once the State has been established, there is no further need for
>>>>philosophers."
>>>
>>>A republic of philosophers, as democratic as possible without completely
>>>paralyzing emergency executive action (needing upheld quickly by
>>>oversight), is the only State; all else is slavery.
>>
>>But that's precisely what's defined by our Constitution.
>
>
> No, there's no logic-test for being a voter or juror.


"We, the People, /do/... ordain, establish, maintain and defend the
United States and its Constitution against all enemies, foreign and
domestic."
Those who do not, are not "the people," but minors whose
privileges are suffered by the majority, each of whom has majority
(q.v.) in his own proper person.
The "voter registration form" is commonly called a "DD Form 214"
because that's what you ask for if you want a copy.
The condition is not transferable; nobody can be "elected" or
"appointed" Officer of the Court.

>
> Not even an elementary one.
>

Sure there is, and it's already a matter of public record absolutely
distinguishing majority from minority (the sum of minors).
The DD Form 214.

>
>> Why Democrats (who own you) and Republicans (whose servants own
>>you) so hate the Constitution. Fortunately, they comprise only 48%
>>of the people in a good (for them) year when put together in a bunch,
>>and they cry about it after every "election," because every "vote" in
>>/my/ country is counted every ten years.
>>
>>The U.S. is legally a Federation of sovereigns (not "sovereign"
>>"States" -- it seZ "We, the People," not "We, the States") commonly
>>called an aristocracy.
>> "Civil" servants have abdicated their sovereign minority to
>>address you as "yes, sir," not "do this or I'll shoot you, sir."
>>
>>
>>>I believe we were discussing extreme improbabilities?
>>
>>You mean like a rational population?
>> Or a civil Civil Servant who actually serves?
>
>
> Something like Option A.
>
>
>>>I'd start with requiring a passing grade in logic to graduate from high
>>>school, and find it peculiar, very peculiar, almost astonishing, that
>>>all the various schemes of "educational reform" in the United States,
>>>propounded by practically everyone involved except the students
>>>themselves, never ever mention that.
>>
>>That's because every educational "reform" ever imposed at gunpoint
>>(i.e., all of them) was proposed by people who claim to own everybody
>>they think they've heard of, beginning with your kids.
>> And any exercise of logic would have the bastards dead of their
>>own propositions.
>> (They're still alive only because they aren't worth a good weapons
>>cleaning, but they're poisoning our kids against human being by
>>poisoning them against human language. Words /are/ mind-altering
>>chemicals.)
>>
>>
>>>An "education" without logic is hardly the education of a citizen; it
>>>seems more like an indoctrination of slaves.
>>>
>>
>>Called by the Romans the "proletariat," "those bred to the service of
>>the State."
>
>
> Or, more concisely and accurately, "breeders".


"Bred" in the Veddy Briddish sense of "born /and raised/," where
"breeding" refers to home + formal education.
Romans did the same, and were as a result at least as
class-conscious as the Brit.

>
>>>> Why Republics chew themselves out of raw material while drowning
>>>>in their own shit and market gluts.
>>>
>>>Kingdoms and theocracies and plutocracies don't?
>>
>>Republics all.
>> And the worst of 'em is the "Democratic" or "People's" Republic,
>>as "there can be no doubt that the Law is whatever the people want."
>> Which, in one generation, is "There can be no doubt that the Law
>>is whatever the Baby Wants."
>> Q.v.
>>
>>
>>>> The only animal besides sheep to need shepherds, and for the same
>>>>reason (not "wolves," but eating holes in their pastures).
>>>
>>>Where do the shepherds come from, and how are they selected, and by
>>>whom?
>>>
>>
>>The usual. The shepherds own the sheep, see...
>
>
> "Bleating and babbling we fell on their necks with a screeeeeaaaaammmmmm
> . . . . "
>

Yeh, a usual result of the inability to distinguish The Common Law
from the Law of Commons.
Rather than owning the sheep (which puts you in your own shit),
you merely welt 'em for eating holes in the Commons, because any
permanent damage is to /your/ property [too].
Republic(ans) claim to own the Commons to charge everybody else
for being on it.
(N.B.: Servants do not pay taxes in any venue under any
circumstances. See any text on double-entry bookkeeping, or why The
Republic "Licenses" anything that may be construed as an accountant
or math teacher.)

>
>>>> Credit Cards eat holes out the other side of their pastures,
>>>>proving to them that they have not eaten holes in their pastures.
>>>> White Holes On Credit, heh.
>>>> (Sri, they're still Black Holes.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> It's a big universe, and temporally infinite.
>>>>>
>>>>>Maybe we're just infinitesimal.
>>>>
>>>>Close. (But no cigar.)
>>>> Unlike the sun, we go out every night.
>>>
>>>Um. We really don't. Proof: Look who wakes up there every morning.
>>
>>You mean those who go out every night wake up in the alley behind the
>>bar?
>
>
> Well, how often does someone wake up and find they're in the wrong bed and
> with the wrong face in the mirror?
>

Happens on the first day of the life of every baby, so naked and
afraid, in a crib he never made, that he can't fuken remember a
/damned thing/. And he doesn't much /start/ to remember anything
("accumulate a soul") for another sixish months.

Eh? If Earth can make you see "blue" today, that made you see "blue"
yesterday or a thousand years ago, Earth is an external memory.
If Earth -- the really shapey wiggly part -- can make you write
sonnets, that made you write sonnets to Eurydice 3000 years ago or to
Laura 600 years ago, Earth is an external memory.
Why it behooves you to leave yourself notes, maps, textbooks, aka
"poems."
Called "resurrection," it takes place entirely /after/ birth.
("Fiction" is the shit that's left over, and the baby has plenty
enough of that all by himself.)

Eh? If A = C and B = C, A = B.
Ask anybody who's ever struck coins or printed a chapbook.
Or actually learned how to read a poem or play K.(333).
Press yourself into a poem or a piano sonata.
You become the complement of the piece.
The piece was the complement of Yeats, Mozart, etc.

Eh? Neither were Yeats or Mozart identical from one day/year to the
next.

Resurrection is the single most common attribute of being;
/everybody/ (indeed, every/thing/) does it.
But if all you press yourself into is the chemistry (Crick's DNA)
and the mechanical (Wiener's) cybernetics (which always happily press
you without your consent or cooperation anyway), all you get is a
lesser cannibal rug-maggot, too completely stupid even to /spell/
"resurrection."

But boy can it squall about its Equal Rats to other men's lives,
fortunes, and honors.

>
>>>For good or ill is another question.
>>
>>Being Earth, the meat abides.
>> When it wakes up, what wakes is what went to sleep. Mickey's Little
>> Hand is a fuken liar. It kept galumphing on at a uniform rate. You
>> didn't.
>>
>>
>>>> And we're so taken with the fact that the soul that wakes up in
>>>>the morning is the same one that went to bed, that we have no use for
>>>>the fact that the one that goes to bed is not the same one that woke
>>>>up.
>>>>
>>>>Class B waves /cease to exist/ every half cycle. That line between the
>>>>lumps is not a "signal" or "signal record," but a record of the fact
>>>>that the recording pen has not ceased to exist along with the signal.
>>>> Mickey's Little Hand is a fuken liar.
>
>


--
-------(m+
~/)_|
Gresham's Law is not worth a Continental.
http://scrawlmark.org

 

"Dennis M. Hammes" <scrawlmark@arvig.net> wrote in message
news:nNSdnWrLXJcq3VjanZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@onvoy.com...
> mimus wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 03:51:00 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
> >
> >
> >>mimus wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:06:04 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>mimus wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 09:16:24 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>mimus wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 03:05:00 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>mimus wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 04:02:08 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>dave hillstrom wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:15:37 -0600, "Dennis M. Hammes"
> >>>>>>>>>>><scrawlmark@arvig.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>dave hillstrom wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:04:48 -0500, mimus
<tinmimus99@hotmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:54:59 -0600, TheBookman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:07:23 -0500, dave hillstrom wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:15:36 -0500, mimus
<tinmimus99@hotmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:09:26 +0000, Aratzio wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:24:05 -0500, in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom
<DaVe@MeOw.OrG>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>bloviated:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:22:01 GMT, Aratzio
<a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.mercurynews.com/foodheadlines/ci_8311983
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hop and Barley prices have increased dramatically,
price for *good*
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>beer is going up. Bud-water and Curs unaffected.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>good thing i brew my own fermented beverages.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And the cost is going up, IF you can get the good hops
anymore.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You can substitute several things for hops with good
results, including
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>catnip and pot.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Not to mention all the horrible other things you can
wrestle into the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boil-bags.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>indeed. hops were not used in beer until rather recently,
i believe
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>between 700 AD and 1,000 AD. before that, they used all
kinds of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>stuff, including hot red pepper.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Unless you're referring to red peppecorns (unlikely or at
least very
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>uncommon, IMO, given the expense), red (chile) peppers
cannot have been
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>used to flavor beer before 1492CE, since they originated
from the "New
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>World", along with potatoes and tomatoes.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HTH.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Didn't, like, the Toltecs or Olmecs or anyone brew beer?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>sure they did.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>everyone brewed beer of some sort.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>although its still somewhat up in the air about whether beer,
wine, or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>mead were first on the human fermentables calendar. the
probability
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>is beer or mead, which ferment far faster than wine, but who
knows?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>were talking like 8000 BC or more back in history.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Right, and cereal grains date back only to 5000 BCE and the
founding
> >>>>>>>>>>>>of Jericho around the discovery of Emmer wheat, or 3000> BCE
and rice
> >>>>>>>>>>>>in the Orient.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Honey is relatively rare (until commercial hay-fields) and
incurs
> >>>>>>>>>>>>some difficulty in the harvest, particulary for a people
without
> >>>>>>>>>>>>ready (made from scratch) fire. Honey is also
self-preserving, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>will not ferment unless diluted and forced.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Berries are likely first of that group, are more common than
> >>>>>>>>>>>>fruits, esp. the modern, large-pulp varieties, and several
will
> >>>>>>>>>>>>produce all season.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>However one wonders if Adam actually ate apple or got plonked
on
> >>>>>>>>>>>>natural cider (cf. Frost's "The Cow in Apple-Time"), hence the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Injunction.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>However, the most-likely "first" is one of the known
root-starches.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>The earliest under cultivation were various water-lilies
(lotus,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>e.g.) in the Tigris, Nile, Indus, etc.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>What makes it difficult is that written records postdate
Jericho,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>and that the materials of undistilled booze are ephemeral and
the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>tools common pots, obviating archeological evidence.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>making it even harder, one theory has that people travelling
around
> >>>>>>>>>>>even pre civilization would make containers out of skins for
water.
> >>>>>>>>>>>the theory says that they might even put in fruits or honey for
taste,
> >>>>>>>>>>>which of course would have wild yeast on it, and so by seeming
magic,
> >>>>>>>>>>>a skin here or there would produce an alcoholic elixer. and of
course
> >>>>>>>>>>>that skin would become imbued with yeast such that pretty much
any
> >>>>>>>>>>>water/sugar addition would do the trick! and yer just not
gonna find
> >>>>>>>>>>>a skin like this in the archeological record.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Perzakly.
> >>>>>>>>>>But the funny thing about statistics is this, that if a thing
has
> >>>>>>>>>>only a chance in a billion of happening, it's fuken well gonna
happen.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>No no no, that's only if it's
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>exactly
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>a million to one against.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>(The Adams-Pratchett Axiom of Improbability.)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Douglas Adams?
> >>>>>>>>(It's a real axiom, and a lot older than he.)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Douglas Adams, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy," "The
> >>>>>>Restaurant at the Edge of the Universe," etc., which makes extreme
> >>>>>>use of various improbabilities and pseudoparadoxes in theoretical
> >>>>>>"physics," incl. "The Improbability Drive."
> >>>>>> All(?) such "theories" exist only in isolation; Adams simply plugs
> >>>>>>them back into mainstream reality and cackles at the "results."
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Yes, yes?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>Are you speaking simply of the truism that anything not impossible
can
> >>>>>>>happen, no matter how unlikely, or something even grottier?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Approximately; it's merely an "opening lesson" in almost any
> >>>>>>statistics course/book, i.e., that anything that has even a
> >>>>>>vanishingly small probability of happening damwell /will/ eventually
> >>>>>>happen, i.e., that it's inevitable.
> >>>>>> It's a crucial point of subatomic physics, planetology, and
> >>>>>>cosmology often forgotten by the careless and never learned by those
> >>>>>>who would rather be Faithful.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>"Crucial"? I'd go with the more likely stuff, meself, like what
happens to
> >>>>>a free neutron after about fifteen minutes or at most within an hour
or
> >>>>>two (OK, some may never blow).
> >>>>
> >>>>Most of my "somewheres" have the half-life of a neutron at ~ten
minutes.
> >>>> And the result is hydrogen.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>It's enough to make your hair stand on end.
> >>>>
> >>>>You might could, as you've just jotted me into considering the most
> >>>>probable emission of a White Hole to be a neutron (conservation of
> >>>>charge across the Center Horizon, etc.), which blows fresh hydrogen
> >>>>into the equation (universe) in ten minutes, a.s.
> >>>> It's /hideously/ simpler than electron/positron or
> >>>>proton/antiproton pairs, e.g.; Occam LUUUves you, tnx.
> >>>
> >>>The next step after all the little bangs is globular clusters.
> >>
> >>Perzackly. When they go bang, you get the Population I stuff with
> >>the heavy elements, like us.
> >
> >
> > All iron is old iron. Very very old iron.
> >
>
> Except for the bits that blew out of the most recent nova.
> In a Black Hole, iron (and everything else) recycles to neutrons,
> thence to hydrogen (White Holes). Q.v.
>
> >
> >>>> And while squeezing +- pairs most likely results in a pair of
> >>>>gamma rays, there's no theory or evidence that they cross the Center
> >>>>Horizon any more than they do the Event Horizon, whereas squeezing an
> >>>>incompressible egg causes it to be laid, so...
> >>>
> >>>Chicken or turtle?
> >>
> >>Neutron, according to the thesis you just jogged me into.
> >> Consider the incompressibility of a neutron star, and the "known"
> >>"evaporation" of Black Holes, however that theory has them
> >>"evaporating" half a photon pair at a time from the /surface/ (Event
> >>Horizon) only.
> >> It's far more (i.e., immediately) probable that the stuff (i.e.,
> >>as neutrons) is "squeezed out" of the /center/, but this requires
> >>aetheric theory.
> >> No, Michelson did /not/ disprove its existence, only its "drag."
> >>There are four blatant errors in his abstract alone, and three of 'em
> >>wouldn't have been committed by a competent grade-schooler.
> >> He was hired to do what he did so that "There can be no doubt that
> >>the Law is whatever the people want" (Holmes, /The Common Law/, 1881).
> >>
> >>Squeeze a neutron hard enough in all dimensions, it goes flat (point,
> >>maybe a "naked singularity," but Hawking said it's an entity and
> >>persists -- the recanted part -- where a point is merely a temporary
> >>coordinate set, not an object).
> >> This increases aetheric pressure, q, by the amount of one neutron.
> >> Aether is perfectly elastic (cf. Michelson-Morley).
> >> That pressure pops out a neutron (White Hole) "somewhere,"
> >>anywhere "space-time" ("aether") isn't being "squeezed," and has
> >>"space" and "time" to oscillate.
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>Not least in its many (and mostly unregarded) implications.
> >>>>
> >>>>Well, there's one more.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>I fixed the API Axiom above. Sorry.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The actual principle has no specific coefficient, and I've never
> >>>>>>heard (to remember it) that it had an attribution name.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>That's Pratchett's emendation of the Adamsian theory of the greater
the
> >>>>>improbability the greater the probability.
> >>>>
> >>>>Hunh. It's one way to put it. Yes.
> >>>
> >>>They're really only talking about _extreme_ im/probabilities.
> >>
> >>Yes; the rest are all around you alla time.
> >> You, e.g.
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>> One feels that Zeno would have propounded it, but then he missed
> >>>>>>so damned much that was right next to what he knew that it makes one
> >>>>>>leery of using "any," "all," or "none" in any context outside the
> >>>>>>strictly logical.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Considering that the propositional logic was not separated out from
set
> >>>>>theory until George Boole's _An Investigation of the Laws of Thought_
> >>>>>(1854), and the mathematics of form not separated out from
propositional
> >>>>>logic until George Spencer Brown's _Laws of Form_ (1964), I have a
> >>>>>somewhat jaundiced view of earlier philosophy, not to mention the
"Age of
> >>>>>Reason".
> >>>>
> >>>>Aristotle's sets were merely incomplete, but he founded a
> >>>>propositional logic on them that had become a primer litany by the
> >>>>Middle Ages: "Barbara, Celarent, Dorii, Fortieris," each with rules
> >>>>of conversion, inversion, and contraposition.
> >>>> Boole completed the sets far more than the priests could permit,
> >>>>which is why they've been bitching about "golems" ever since (cf.
> >>>>Wiener's Second Edition of /Cybernetics/ (1964) and Crick's recanting
> >>>>of DNA (~1985)).
> >>>
> >>>?
> >>
> >>DNA + cybernetics = "golems," "robots," yatta, that priests can't
> >>afford to admit. (They're quasi-golems, "vampires.")
> >
> >
> > I was actually questioning the "recanting".
> >
>
> Ah. Well, see their own books. Wiener added two chapters to the
> 1933 in 1964, apologising for having supposed man was a mathematical
> golem, and Crick wrote a new book from the top apologising for the
> thought that man might be a reproducible mechanism.

Well of COURSE man is a reproducible mechanism. Man reproduces all over the
place, all the time, over and over.

Sheesh! You guys make it all so complicated with your philosophical,
mathmatical, and historical references.

Smee, throwing a monkey wrench in the works


>
> >
> >>>> I didn't find any inclusions of the "old logic" into Boolean/Venn
> >>>>notations, or the latter into conjunctions/prepositions, so I did it
> >>>>myself.
> >>>
> >>>See Appendix 2 of _Laws of Form_ for the propositional logical
foundation
> >>>of set reasoning . . . .
> >>
> >>It all depends on the word "belongs," eh?
> >> And since everything "belongs" to the priests, there is no other
> >>classification and no such thing as logic.
> >> There is only Received Doctrine.
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>The Greeks in particular along with their many splendid achievements
> >>>>>made many philosophical howlers as well, as could only be expected (I
> >>>>>accept and sympathize with "first gropings" as a rational plea in
> >>>>>mitigation of such things as the "spiritual hypothesis", although
that
> >>>>>plea withers with time), and moving on to more complex matters one
can
> >>>>>only hope that Plato's _Republic_ was a joke, a satire on Sparta
and/or
> >>>>>Utopia-building, although one fears not.
> >>>>
> >>>>It wasn't, sri. He /knew/ who buttered his bread in return for saying
> >>>>they "ruled."
> >>>
> >>>I've always enjoyed the widespread respect-- as evidenced by the very
> >>>adoption of the title to be representative-- accorded Thomas More's
> >>>_Utopia_, under which only Christians could be citizens, Jews
second-class
> >>>citizens, Moslems slaves, and atheists robbed or murdered with legal
> >>>impunity:
> >>>
> >>>It says so much about More and Christianity and "Western Culture" over
the
> >>>last several centuries.
> >>
> >>It seZ even More than that, eh?
> >>
> >>
> >>>> "Once the State has been established, there is no further need for
> >>>>philosophers."
> >>>
> >>>A republic of philosophers, as democratic as possible without
completely
> >>>paralyzing emergency executive action (needing upheld quickly by
> >>>oversight), is the only State; all else is slavery.
> >>
> >>But that's precisely what's defined by our Constitution.
> >
> >
> > No, there's no logic-test for being a voter or juror.
>
>
> "We, the People, /do/... ordain, establish, maintain and defend the
> United States and its Constitution against all enemies, foreign and
> domestic."
> Those who do not, are not "the people," but minors whose
> privileges are suffered by the majority, each of whom has majority
> (q.v.) in his own proper person.
> The "voter registration form" is commonly called a "DD Form 214"
> because that's what you ask for if you want a copy.
> The condition is not transferable; nobody can be "elected" or
> "appointed" Officer of the Court.
>
> >
> > Not even an elementary one.
> >
>
> Sure there is, and it's already a matter of public record absolutely
> distinguishing majority from minority (the sum of minors).
> The DD Form 214.
>
> >
> >> Why Democrats (who own you) and Republicans (whose servants own
> >>you) so hate the Constitution. Fortunately, they comprise only 48%
> >>of the people in a good (for them) year when put together in a bunch,
> >>and they cry about it after every "election," because every "vote" in
> >>/my/ country is counted every ten years.
> >>
> >>The U.S. is legally a Federation of sovereigns (not "sovereign"
> >>"States" -- it seZ "We, the People," not "We, the States") commonly
> >>called an aristocracy.
> >> "Civil" servants have abdicated their sovereign minority to
> >>address you as "yes, sir," not "do this or I'll shoot you, sir."
> >>
> >>
> >>>I believe we were discussing extreme improbabilities?
> >>
> >>You mean like a rational population?
> >> Or a civil Civil Servant who actually serves?
> >
> >
> > Something like Option A.
> >
> >
> >>>I'd start with requiring a passing grade in logic to graduate from high
> >>>school, and find it peculiar, very peculiar, almost astonishing, that
> >>>all the various schemes of "educational reform" in the United States,
> >>>propounded by practically everyone involved except the students
> >>>themselves, never ever mention that.
> >>
> >>That's because every educational "reform" ever imposed at gunpoint
> >>(i.e., all of them) was proposed by people who claim to own everybody
> >>they think they've heard of, beginning with your kids.
> >> And any exercise of logic would have the bastards dead of their
> >>own propositions.
> >> (They're still alive only because they aren't worth a good weapons
> >>cleaning, but they're poisoning our kids against human being by
> >>poisoning them against human language. Words /are/ mind-altering
> >>chemicals.)
> >>
> >>
> >>>An "education" without logic is hardly the education of a citizen; it
> >>>seems more like an indoctrination of slaves.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Called by the Romans the "proletariat," "those bred to the service of
> >>the State."
> >
> >
> > Or, more concisely and accurately, "breeders".
>
>
> "Bred" in the Veddy Briddish sense of "born /and raised/," where
> "breeding" refers to home + formal education.
> Romans did the same, and were as a result at least as
> class-conscious as the Brit.
>
> >
> >>>> Why Republics chew themselves out of raw material while drowning
> >>>>in their own shit and market gluts.
> >>>
> >>>Kingdoms and theocracies and plutocracies don't?
> >>
> >>Republics all.
> >> And the worst of 'em is the "Democratic" or "People's" Republic,
> >>as "there can be no doubt that the Law is whatever the people want."
> >> Which, in one generation, is "There can be no doubt that the Law
> >>is whatever the Baby Wants."
> >> Q.v.
> >>
> >>
> >>>> The only animal besides sheep to need shepherds, and for the same
> >>>>reason (not "wolves," but eating holes in their pastures).
> >>>
> >>>Where do the shepherds come from, and how are they selected, and by
> >>>whom?
> >>>
> >>
> >>The usual. The shepherds own the sheep, see...
> >
> >
> > "Bleating and babbling we fell on their necks with a screeeeeaaaaammmmmm
> > . . . . "
> >
>
> Yeh, a usual result of the inability to distinguish The Common Law
> from the Law of Commons.
> Rather than owning the sheep (which puts you in your own shit),
> you merely welt 'em for eating holes in the Commons, because any
> permanent damage is to /your/ property [too].
> Republic(ans) claim to own the Commons to charge everybody else
> for being on it.
> (N.B.: Servants do not pay taxes in any venue under any
> circumstances. See any text on double-entry bookkeeping, or why The
> Republic "Licenses" anything that may be construed as an accountant
> or math teacher.)
>
> >
> >>>> Credit Cards eat holes out the other side of their pastures,
> >>>>proving to them that they have not eaten holes in their pastures.
> >>>> White Holes On Credit, heh.
> >>>> (Sri, they're still Black Holes.)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> It's a big universe, and temporally infinite.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Maybe we're just infinitesimal.
> >>>>
> >>>>Close. (But no cigar.)
> >>>> Unlike the sun, we go out every night.
> >>>
> >>>Um. We really don't. Proof: Look who wakes up there every morning.
> >>
> >>You mean those who go out every night wake up in the alley behind the
> >>bar?
> >
> >
> > Well, how often does someone wake up and find they're in the wrong bed
and
> > with the wrong face in the mirror?
> >
>
> Happens on the first day of the life of every baby, so naked and
> afraid, in a crib he never made, that he can't fuken remember a
> /damned thing/. And he doesn't much /start/ to remember anything
> ("accumulate a soul") for another sixish months.
>
> Eh? If Earth can make you see "blue" today, that made you see "blue"
> yesterday or a thousand years ago, Earth is an external memory.
> If Earth -- the really shapey wiggly part -- can make you write
> sonnets, that made you write sonnets to Eurydice 3000 years ago or to
> Laura 600 years ago, Earth is an external memory.
> Why it behooves you to leave yourself notes, maps, textbooks, aka
> "poems."
> Called "resurrection," it takes place entirely /after/ birth.
> ("Fiction" is the shit that's left over, and the baby has plenty
> enough of that all by himself.)
>
> Eh? If A = C and B = C, A = B.
> Ask anybody who's ever struck coins or printed a chapbook.
> Or actually learned how to read a poem or play K.(333).
> Press yourself into a poem or a piano sonata.
> You become the complement of the piece.
> The piece was the complement of Yeats, Mozart, etc.
>
> Eh? Neither were Yeats or Mozart identical from one day/year to the
> next.
>
> Resurrection is the single most common attribute of being;
> /everybody/ (indeed, every/thing/) does it.
> But if all you press yourself into is the chemistry (Crick's DNA)
> and the mechanical (Wiener's) cybernetics (which always happily press
> you without your consent or cooperation anyway), all you get is a
> lesser cannibal rug-maggot, too completely stupid even to /spell/
> "resurrection."
>
> But boy can it squall about its Equal Rats to other men's lives,
> fortunes, and honors.
>
> >
> >>>For good or ill is another question.
> >>
> >>Being Earth, the meat abides.
> >> When it wakes up, what wakes is what went to sleep. Mickey's Little
> >> Hand is a fuken liar. It kept galumphing on at a uniform rate. You
> >> didn't.
> >>
> >>
> >>>> And we're so taken with the fact that the soul that wakes up in
> >>>>the morning is the same one that went to bed, that we have no use for
> >>>>the fact that the one that goes to bed is not the same one that woke
> >>>>up.
> >>>>
> >>>>Class B waves /cease to exist/ every half cycle. That line between
the
> >>>>lumps is not a "signal" or "signal record," but a record of the fact
> >>>>that the recording pen has not ceased to exist along with the signal.
> >>>> Mickey's Little Hand is a fuken liar.
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> -------(m+
> ~/)_|
> Gresham's Law is not worth a Continental.
> http://scrawlmark.org

 

pscissons@sbcglobal.net wrote:

> "Dennis M. Hammes" <scrawlmark@arvig.net> wrote in message
> news:nNSdnWrLXJcq3VjanZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@onvoy.com...
>
>>mimus wrote:
>>

<mucho clippo>

>>>
>>>I was actually questioning the "recanting".
>>>
>>
>>Ah. Well, see their own books. Wiener added two chapters to the
>>1933 in 1964, apologising for having supposed man was a mathematical
>>golem, and Crick wrote a new book from the top apologising for the
>>thought that man might be a reproducible mechanism.
>
>
> Well of COURSE man is a reproducible mechanism. Man reproduces all over the
> place, all the time, over and over.
>
> Sheesh! You guys make it all so complicated with your philosophical,
> mathmatical, and historical references.
>
> Smee, throwing a monkey wrench in the works
>

Heh. My point(s), tnx.
Peoples does strange thingses to maintain tenure.

--
-------(m+
~/)_|
Gresham's Law is not worth a Continental.
http://scrawlmark.org

 

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 21:04:16 -0800, pscissons wrote:

> "Dennis M. Hammes" <scrawlmark@arvig.net> wrote in message
> news:nNSdnWrLXJcq3VjanZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@onvoy.com...
>
>> mimus wrote:
>>
>> > On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 03:51:00 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
>> >
>> >>mimus wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:06:04 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>mimus wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 09:16:24 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>mimus wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 03:05:00 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>mimus wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 04:02:08 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>dave hillstrom wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:15:37 -0600, "Dennis M. Hammes"
>> >>>>>>>>>>><scrawlmark@arvig.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>dave hillstrom wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:04:48 -0500, mimus
> <tinmimus99@hotmail.com>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:54:59 -0600, TheBookman wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:07:23 -0500, dave hillstrom wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:15:36 -0500, mimus
> <tinmimus99@hotmail.com>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:09:26 +0000, Aratzio wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:24:05 -0500, in
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom
> <DaVe@MeOw.OrG>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>bloviated:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:22:01 GMT, Aratzio
> <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.mercurynews.com/foodheadlines/ci_8311983
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hop and Barley prices have increased dramatically,
> price for *good*
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>beer is going up. Bud-water and Curs unaffected.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>good thing i brew my own fermented beverages.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And the cost is going up, IF you can get the good hops
> anymore.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You can substitute several things for hops with good
> results, including
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>catnip and pot.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Not to mention all the horrible other things you can
> wrestle into the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boil-bags.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>indeed. hops were not used in beer until rather recently,
> i believe
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>between 700 AD and 1,000 AD. before that, they used all
> kinds of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>stuff, including hot red pepper.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Unless you're referring to red peppecorns (unlikely or at
> least very
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>uncommon, IMO, given the expense), red (chile) peppers
> cannot have been
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>used to flavor beer before 1492CE, since they originated
> from the "New
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>World", along with potatoes and tomatoes.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HTH.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Didn't, like, the Toltecs or Olmecs or anyone brew beer?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>sure they did.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>everyone brewed beer of some sort.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>although its still somewhat up in the air about whether beer,
> wine, or
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>mead were first on the human fermentables calendar. the
> probability
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>is beer or mead, which ferment far faster than wine, but who
> knows?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>were talking like 8000 BC or more back in history.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Right, and cereal grains date back only to 5000 BCE and the
> founding
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>of Jericho around the discovery of Emmer wheat, or 3000> BCE
> and rice
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>in the Orient.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Honey is relatively rare (until commercial hay-fields) and
> incurs
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>some difficulty in the harvest, particulary for a people
> without
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>ready (made from scratch) fire. Honey is also
> self-preserving, and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>will not ferment unless diluted and forced.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Berries are likely first of that group, are more common than
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>fruits, esp. the modern, large-pulp varieties, and several
> will
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>produce all season.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>However one wonders if Adam actually ate apple or got plonked
> on
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>natural cider (cf. Frost's "The Cow in Apple-Time"), hence the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Injunction.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>However, the most-likely "first" is one of the known
> root-starches.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>The earliest under cultivation were various water-lilies
> (lotus,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>e.g.) in the Tigris, Nile, Indus, etc.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>What makes it difficult is that written records postdate
> Jericho,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>and that the materials of undistilled booze are ephemeral and
> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>tools common pots, obviating archeological evidence.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>making it even harder, one theory has that people travelling
> around
>> >>>>>>>>>>>even pre civilization would make containers out of skins for
> water.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>the theory says that they might even put in fruits or honey for
> taste,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>which of course would have wild yeast on it, and so by seeming
> magic,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>a skin here or there would produce an alcoholic elixer. and of
> course
>> >>>>>>>>>>>that skin would become imbued with yeast such that pretty much
> any
>> >>>>>>>>>>>water/sugar addition would do the trick! and yer just not
> gonna find
>> >>>>>>>>>>>a skin like this in the archeological record.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>Perzakly.
>> >>>>>>>>>>But the funny thing about statistics is this, that if a thing
> has
>> >>>>>>>>>>only a chance in a billion of happening, it's fuken well gonna
> happen.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>No no no, that's only if it's
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>exactly
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>a million to one against.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>(The Adams-Pratchett Axiom of Improbability.)
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>Douglas Adams?
>> >>>>>>>>(It's a real axiom, and a lot older than he.)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>Douglas Adams, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy," "The
>> >>>>>>Restaurant at the Edge of the Universe," etc., which makes extreme
>> >>>>>>use of various improbabilities and pseudoparadoxes in theoretical
>> >>>>>>"physics," incl. "The Improbability Drive."
>> >>>>>> All(?) such "theories" exist only in isolation; Adams simply plugs
>> >>>>>>them back into mainstream reality and cackles at the "results."
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Yes, yes?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>Are you speaking simply of the truism that anything not impossible
> can
>> >>>>>>>happen, no matter how unlikely, or something even grottier?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>Approximately; it's merely an "opening lesson" in almost any
>> >>>>>>statistics course/book, i.e., that anything that has even a
>> >>>>>>vanishingly small probability of happening damwell /will/ eventually
>> >>>>>>happen, i.e., that it's inevitable.
>> >>>>>> It's a crucial point of subatomic physics, planetology, and
>> >>>>>>cosmology often forgotten by the careless and never learned by those
>> >>>>>>who would rather be Faithful.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>"Crucial"? I'd go with the more likely stuff, meself, like what
> happens to
>> >>>>>a free neutron after about fifteen minutes or at most within an hour
> or
>> >>>>>two (OK, some may never blow).
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Most of my "somewheres" have the half-life of a neutron at ~ten
> minutes.
>> >>>> And the result is hydrogen.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>It's enough to make your hair stand on end.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>You might could, as you've just jotted me into considering the most
>> >>>>probable emission of a White Hole to be a neutron (conservation of
>> >>>>charge across the Center Horizon, etc.), which blows fresh hydrogen
>> >>>>into the equation (universe) in ten minutes, a.s.
>> >>>> It's /hideously/ simpler than electron/positron or
>> >>>>proton/antiproton pairs, e.g.; Occam LUUUves you, tnx.
>> >>>
>> >>>The next step after all the little bangs is globular clusters.
>> >>
>> >>Perzackly. When they go bang, you get the Population I stuff with
>> >>the heavy elements, like us.
>> >
>> > All iron is old iron. Very very old iron.
>>
>> Except for the bits that blew out of the most recent nova.
>> In a Black Hole, iron (and everything else) recycles to neutrons,
>> thence to hydrogen (White Holes). Q.v.
>>
>> >>>> And while squeezing +- pairs most likely results in a pair of
>> >>>>gamma rays, there's no theory or evidence that they cross the Center
>> >>>>Horizon any more than they do the Event Horizon, whereas squeezing an
>> >>>>incompressible egg causes it to be laid, so...
>> >>>
>> >>>Chicken or turtle?
>> >>
>> >>Neutron, according to the thesis you just jogged me into.
>> >> Consider the incompressibility of a neutron star, and the "known"
>> >>"evaporation" of Black Holes, however that theory has them
>> >>"evaporating" half a photon pair at a time from the /surface/ (Event
>> >>Horizon) only.
>> >> It's far more (i.e., immediately) probable that the stuff (i.e.,
>> >>as neutrons) is "squeezed out" of the /center/, but this requires
>> >>aetheric theory.
>> >> No, Michelson did /not/ disprove its existence, only its "drag."
>> >>There are four blatant errors in his abstract alone, and three of 'em
>> >>wouldn't have been committed by a competent grade-schooler.
>> >> He was hired to do what he did so that "There can be no doubt that
>> >>the Law is whatever the people want" (Holmes, /The Common Law/, 1881).
>> >>
>> >>Squeeze a neutron hard enough in all dimensions, it goes flat (point,
>> >>maybe a "naked singularity," but Hawking said it's an entity and
>> >>persists -- the recanted part -- where a point is merely a temporary
>> >>coordinate set, not an object).
>> >> This increases aetheric pressure, q, by the amount of one neutron.
>> >> Aether is perfectly elastic (cf. Michelson-Morley).
>> >> That pressure pops out a neutron (White Hole) "somewhere,"
>> >>anywhere "space-time" ("aether") isn't being "squeezed," and has
>> >>"space" and "time" to oscillate.
>> >>
>> >>>>>Not least in its many (and mostly unregarded) implications.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Well, there's one more.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>I fixed the API Axiom above. Sorry.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>The actual principle has no specific coefficient, and I've never
>> >>>>>>heard (to remember it) that it had an attribution name.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>That's Pratchett's emendation of the Adamsian theory of the greater
> the
>> >>>>>improbability the greater the probability.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Hunh. It's one way to put it. Yes.
>> >>>
>> >>>They're really only talking about _extreme_ im/probabilities.
>> >>
>> >>Yes; the rest are all around you alla time.
>> >> You, e.g.
>> >>
>> >>>>>> One feels that Zeno would have propounded it, but then he missed
>> >>>>>>so damned much that was right next to what he knew that it makes one
>> >>>>>>leery of using "any," "all," or "none" in any context outside the
>> >>>>>>strictly logical.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Considering that the propositional logic was not separated out from
> set
>> >>>>>theory until George Boole's _An Investigation of the Laws of Thought_
>> >>>>>(1854), and the mathematics of form not separated out from
> propositional
>> >>>>>logic until George Spencer Brown's _Laws of Form_ (1964), I have a
>> >>>>>somewhat jaundiced view of earlier philosophy, not to mention the
> "Age of
>> >>>>>Reason".
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Aristotle's sets were merely incomplete, but he founded a
>> >>>>propositional logic on them that had become a primer litany by the
>> >>>>Middle Ages: "Barbara, Celarent, Dorii, Fortieris," each with rules
>> >>>>of conversion, inversion, and contraposition.
>> >>>> Boole completed the sets far more than the priests could permit,
>> >>>>which is why they've been bitching about "golems" ever since (cf.
>> >>>>Wiener's Second Edition of /Cybernetics/ (1964) and Crick's recanting
>> >>>>of DNA (~1985)).
>> >>>
>> >>>?
>> >>
>> >>DNA + cybernetics = "golems," "robots," yatta, that priests can't
>> >>afford to admit. (They're quasi-golems, "vampires.")
>> >
>> > I was actually questioning the "recanting".
>>
>> Ah. Well, see their own books. Wiener added two chapters to the
>> 1933 in 1964, apologising for having supposed man was a mathematical
>> golem, and Crick wrote a new book from the top apologising for the
>> thought that man might be a reproducible mechanism.
>
> Well of COURSE man is a reproducible mechanism. Man reproduces all over the
> place, all the time, over and over.
>
> Sheesh! You guys make it all so complicated with your philosophical,
> mathmatical, and historical references.
>
> Smee, throwing a monkey wrench in the works

I believe it was Dr. Samuel "Dictionary" Johnson who enraged a lot of
epistemologists and ontologists and phenomenologists then and later by
kicking a rock and saying "Thus I refute Berkeley!"

--
tinmimus99@hotmail.com

smeeter 11 or maybe 12

mp 10

mhm 29x13

In the previous number, the cattle rustlers (post-
Hegelian dogma) had trapped Professor Dewey in an
abandoned mine shaft (Jamesian pragmatism) and had
ignited the fuse leading to a keg of dynamite
(neo-Newtonian empiricism).

< Perelman

 

"mimus" <tinmimus99@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:qvednYH0f5HEZFranZ2dnUVZ_u-unZ2d@giganews.com...
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 21:04:16 -0800, pscissons wrote:
>
> > "Dennis M. Hammes" <scrawlmark@arvig.net> wrote in message
> > news:nNSdnWrLXJcq3VjanZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@onvoy.com...
> >
> >> mimus wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 03:51:00 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>mimus wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:06:04 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>mimus wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>>On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 09:16:24 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>>mimus wrote:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 03:05:00 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>mimus wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 04:02:08 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>dave hillstrom wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:15:37 -0600, "Dennis M. Hammes"
> >> >>>>>>>>>>><scrawlmark@arvig.net> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>dave hillstrom wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:04:48 -0500, mimus
> > <tinmimus99@hotmail.com>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:54:59 -0600, TheBookman wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:07:23 -0500, dave hillstrom
wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:15:36 -0500, mimus
> > <tinmimus99@hotmail.com>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:09:26 +0000, Aratzio wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:24:05 -0500, in
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom
> > <DaVe@MeOw.OrG>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>bloviated:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:22:01 GMT, Aratzio
> > <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.mercurynews.com/foodheadlines/ci_8311983
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hop and Barley prices have increased dramatically,
> > price for *good*
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>beer is going up. Bud-water and Curs unaffected.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>good thing i brew my own fermented beverages.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And the cost is going up, IF you can get the good
hops
> > anymore.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You can substitute several things for hops with good
> > results, including
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>catnip and pot.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Not to mention all the horrible other things you can
> > wrestle into the
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boil-bags.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>indeed. hops were not used in beer until rather
recently,
> > i believe
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>between 700 AD and 1,000 AD. before that, they used
all
> > kinds of
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>stuff, including hot red pepper.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Unless you're referring to red peppecorns (unlikely or
at
> > least very
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>uncommon, IMO, given the expense), red (chile) peppers
> > cannot have been
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>used to flavor beer before 1492CE, since they originated
> > from the "New
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>World", along with potatoes and tomatoes.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HTH.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Didn't, like, the Toltecs or Olmecs or anyone brew beer?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>sure they did.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>everyone brewed beer of some sort.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>although its still somewhat up in the air about whether
beer,
> > wine, or
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>mead were first on the human fermentables calendar. the
> > probability
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>is beer or mead, which ferment far faster than wine, but
who
> > knows?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>were talking like 8000 BC or more back in history.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>Right, and cereal grains date back only to 5000 BCE and the
> > founding
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>of Jericho around the discovery of Emmer wheat, or 3000>
BCE
> > and rice
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>in the Orient.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>Honey is relatively rare (until commercial hay-fields) and
> > incurs
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>some difficulty in the harvest, particulary for a people
> > without
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>ready (made from scratch) fire. Honey is also
> > self-preserving, and
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>will not ferment unless diluted and forced.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>Berries are likely first of that group, are more common
than
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>fruits, esp. the modern, large-pulp varieties, and several
> > will
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>produce all season.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>However one wonders if Adam actually ate apple or got
plonked
> > on
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>natural cider (cf. Frost's "The Cow in Apple-Time"), hence
the
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>Injunction.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>However, the most-likely "first" is one of the known
> > root-starches.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>The earliest under cultivation were various water-lilies
> > (lotus,
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>e.g.) in the Tigris, Nile, Indus, etc.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>What makes it difficult is that written records postdate
> > Jericho,
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>and that the materials of undistilled booze are ephemeral
and
> > the
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>tools common pots, obviating archeological evidence.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>making it even harder, one theory has that people travelling
> > around
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>even pre civilization would make containers out of skins for
> > water.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>the theory says that they might even put in fruits or honey
for
> > taste,
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>which of course would have wild yeast on it, and so by
seeming
> > magic,
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>a skin here or there would produce an alcoholic elixer. and
of
> > course
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>that skin would become imbued with yeast such that pretty
much
> > any
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>water/sugar addition would do the trick! and yer just not
> > gonna find
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>a skin like this in the archeological record.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>Perzakly.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>But the funny thing about statistics is this, that if a thing
> > has
> >> >>>>>>>>>>only a chance in a billion of happening, it's fuken well
gonna
> > happen.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>No no no, that's only if it's
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>exactly
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>a million to one against.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>(The Adams-Pratchett Axiom of Improbability.)
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>Douglas Adams?
> >> >>>>>>>>(It's a real axiom, and a lot older than he.)
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>?
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>Douglas Adams, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy," "The
> >> >>>>>>Restaurant at the Edge of the Universe," etc., which makes
extreme
> >> >>>>>>use of various improbabilities and pseudoparadoxes in theoretical
> >> >>>>>>"physics," incl. "The Improbability Drive."
> >> >>>>>> All(?) such "theories" exist only in isolation; Adams simply
plugs
> >> >>>>>>them back into mainstream reality and cackles at the "results."
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>Yes, yes?
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>Are you speaking simply of the truism that anything not
impossible
> > can
> >> >>>>>>>happen, no matter how unlikely, or something even grottier?
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>Approximately; it's merely an "opening lesson" in almost any
> >> >>>>>>statistics course/book, i.e., that anything that has even a
> >> >>>>>>vanishingly small probability of happening damwell /will/
eventually
> >> >>>>>>happen, i.e., that it's inevitable.
> >> >>>>>> It's a crucial point of subatomic physics, planetology, and
> >> >>>>>>cosmology often forgotten by the careless and never learned by
those
> >> >>>>>>who would rather be Faithful.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>"Crucial"? I'd go with the more likely stuff, meself, like what
> > happens to
> >> >>>>>a free neutron after about fifteen minutes or at most within an
hour
> > or
> >> >>>>>two (OK, some may never blow).
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>Most of my "somewheres" have the half-life of a neutron at ~ten
> > minutes.
> >> >>>> And the result is hydrogen.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>>It's enough to make your hair stand on end.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>You might could, as you've just jotted me into considering the most
> >> >>>>probable emission of a White Hole to be a neutron (conservation of
> >> >>>>charge across the Center Horizon, etc.), which blows fresh hydrogen
> >> >>>>into the equation (universe) in ten minutes, a.s.
> >> >>>> It's /hideously/ simpler than electron/positron or
> >> >>>>proton/antiproton pairs, e.g.; Occam LUUUves you, tnx.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>The next step after all the little bangs is globular clusters.
> >> >>
> >> >>Perzackly. When they go bang, you get the Population I stuff with
> >> >>the heavy elements, like us.
> >> >
> >> > All iron is old iron. Very very old iron.
> >>
> >> Except for the bits that blew out of the most recent nova.
> >> In a Black Hole, iron (and everything else) recycles to neutrons,
> >> thence to hydrogen (White Holes). Q.v.
> >>
> >> >>>> And while squeezing +- pairs most likely results in a pair of
> >> >>>>gamma rays, there's no theory or evidence that they cross the
Center
> >> >>>>Horizon any more than they do the Event Horizon, whereas squeezing
an
> >> >>>>incompressible egg causes it to be laid, so...
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Chicken or turtle?
> >> >>
> >> >>Neutron, according to the thesis you just jogged me into.
> >> >> Consider the incompressibility of a neutron star, and the "known"
> >> >>"evaporation" of Black Holes, however that theory has them
> >> >>"evaporating" half a photon pair at a time from the /surface/ (Event
> >> >>Horizon) only.
> >> >> It's far more (i.e., immediately) probable that the stuff (i.e.,
> >> >>as neutrons) is "squeezed out" of the /center/, but this requires
> >> >>aetheric theory.
> >> >> No, Michelson did /not/ disprove its existence, only its "drag."
> >> >>There are four blatant errors in his abstract alone, and three of 'em
> >> >>wouldn't have been committed by a competent grade-schooler.
> >> >> He was hired to do what he did so that "There can be no doubt that
> >> >>the Law is whatever the people want" (Holmes, /The Common Law/,
1881).
> >> >>
> >> >>Squeeze a neutron hard enough in all dimensions, it goes flat (point,
> >> >>maybe a "naked singularity," but Hawking said it's an entity and
> >> >>persists -- the recanted part -- where a point is merely a temporary
> >> >>coordinate set, not an object).
> >> >> This increases aetheric pressure, q, by the amount of one neutron.
> >> >> Aether is perfectly elastic (cf. Michelson-Morley).
> >> >> That pressure pops out a neutron (White Hole) "somewhere,"
> >> >>anywhere "space-time" ("aether") isn't being "squeezed," and has
> >> >>"space" and "time" to oscillate.
> >> >>
> >> >>>>>Not least in its many (and mostly unregarded) implications.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>Well, there's one more.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>>>>I fixed the API Axiom above. Sorry.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>The actual principle has no specific coefficient, and I've never
> >> >>>>>>heard (to remember it) that it had an attribution name.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>That's Pratchett's emendation of the Adamsian theory of the
greater
> > the
> >> >>>>>improbability the greater the probability.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>Hunh. It's one way to put it. Yes.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>They're really only talking about _extreme_ im/probabilities.
> >> >>
> >> >>Yes; the rest are all around you alla time.
> >> >> You, e.g.
> >> >>
> >> >>>>>> One feels that Zeno would have propounded it, but then he missed
> >> >>>>>>so damned much that was right next to what he knew that it makes
one
> >> >>>>>>leery of using "any," "all," or "none" in any context outside the
> >> >>>>>>strictly logical.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>Considering that the propositional logic was not separated out
from
> > set
> >> >>>>>theory until George Boole's _An Investigation of the Laws of
Thought_
> >> >>>>>(1854), and the mathematics of form not separated out from
> > propositional
> >> >>>>>logic until George Spencer Brown's _Laws of Form_ (1964), I have a
> >> >>>>>somewhat jaundiced view of earlier philosophy, not to mention the
> > "Age of
> >> >>>>>Reason".
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>Aristotle's sets were merely incomplete, but he founded a
> >> >>>>propositional logic on them that had become a primer litany by the
> >> >>>>Middle Ages: "Barbara, Celarent, Dorii, Fortieris," each with
rules
> >> >>>>of conversion, inversion, and contraposition.
> >> >>>> Boole completed the sets far more than the priests could permit,
> >> >>>>which is why they've been bitching about "golems" ever since (cf.
> >> >>>>Wiener's Second Edition of /Cybernetics/ (1964) and Crick's
recanting
> >> >>>>of DNA (~1985)).
> >> >>>
> >> >>>?
> >> >>
> >> >>DNA + cybernetics = "golems," "robots," yatta, that priests can't
> >> >>afford to admit. (They're quasi-golems, "vampires.")
> >> >
> >> > I was actually questioning the "recanting".
> >>
> >> Ah. Well, see their own books. Wiener added two chapters to the
> >> 1933 in 1964, apologising for having supposed man was a mathematical
> >> golem, and Crick wrote a new book from the top apologising for the
> >> thought that man might be a reproducible mechanism.
> >
> > Well of COURSE man is a reproducible mechanism. Man reproduces all over
the
> > place, all the time, over and over.
> >
> > Sheesh! You guys make it all so complicated with your philosophical,
> > mathmatical, and historical references.
> >
> > Smee, throwing a monkey wrench in the works
>
> I believe it was Dr. Samuel "Dictionary" Johnson who enraged a lot of
> epistemologists and ontologists and phenomenologists then and later by
> kicking a rock and saying "Thus I refute Berkeley!"

Occam's Razor.

Smee

>
> --
> tinmimus99@hotmail.com
>
> smeeter 11 or maybe 12
>
> mp 10
>
> mhm 29x13
>
> In the previous number, the cattle rustlers (post-
> Hegelian dogma) had trapped Professor Dewey in an
> abandoned mine shaft (Jamesian pragmatism) and had
> ignited the fuse leading to a keg of dynamite
> (neo-Newtonian empiricism).
>
> < Perelman
>
>

 

On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 06:34:07 +0000, pscissons wrote:

> "mimus" <tinmimus99@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:qvednYH0f5HEZFranZ2dnUVZ_u-unZ2d@giganews.com...
>
>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 21:04:16 -0800, pscissons wrote:
>>
>> > "Dennis M. Hammes" <scrawlmark@arvig.net> wrote in message
>> > news:nNSdnWrLXJcq3VjanZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@onvoy.com...
>> >
>> >> mimus wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 03:51:00 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>mimus wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:06:04 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>>mimus wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 09:16:24 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>mimus wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 03:05:00 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>mimus wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 04:02:08 -0600, Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>dave hillstrom wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:15:37 -0600, "Dennis M. Hammes"
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>><scrawlmark@arvig.net> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>dave hillstrom wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:04:48 -0500, mimus
>> > <tinmimus99@hotmail.com>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:54:59 -0600, TheBookman wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:07:23 -0500, dave hillstrom
> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:15:36 -0500, mimus
>> > <tinmimus99@hotmail.com>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:09:26 +0000, Aratzio wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:24:05 -0500, in
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom
>> > <DaVe@MeOw.OrG>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>bloviated:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:22:01 GMT, Aratzio
>> > <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.mercurynews.com/foodheadlines/ci_8311983
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hop and Barley prices have increased dramatically,
>> > price for *good*
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>beer is going up. Bud-water and Curs unaffected.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>good thing i brew my own fermented beverages.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And the cost is going up, IF you can get the good
> hops
>> > anymore.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You can substitute several things for hops with good
>> > results, including
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>catnip and pot.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Not to mention all the horrible other things you can
>> > wrestle into the
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boil-bags.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>indeed. hops were not used in beer until rather
> recently,
>> > i believe
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>between 700 AD and 1,000 AD. before that, they used
> all
>> > kinds of
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>stuff, including hot red pepper.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Unless you're referring to red peppecorns (unlikely or
> at
>> > least very
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>uncommon, IMO, given the expense), red (chile) peppers
>> > cannot have been
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>used to flavor beer before 1492CE, since they originated
>> > from the "New
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>World", along with potatoes and tomatoes.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HTH.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Didn't, like, the Toltecs or Olmecs or anyone brew beer?
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>sure they did.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>everyone brewed beer of some sort.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>although its still somewhat up in the air about whether
> beer,
>> > wine, or
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>mead were first on the human fermentables calendar. the
>> > probability
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>is beer or mead, which ferment far faster than wine, but
> who
>> > knows?
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>were talking like 8000 BC or more back in history.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>Right, and cereal grains date back only to 5000 BCE and the
>> > founding
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>of Jericho around the discovery of Emmer wheat, or 3000>
> BCE
>> > and rice
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>in the Orient.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>Honey is relatively rare (until commercial hay-fields) and
>> > incurs
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>some difficulty in the harvest, particulary for a people
>> > without
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>ready (made from scratch) fire. Honey is also
>> > self-preserving, and
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>will not ferment unless diluted and forced.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>Berries are likely first of that group, are more common
> than
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>fruits, esp. the modern, large-pulp varieties, and several
>> > will
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>produce all season.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>However one wonders if Adam actually ate apple or got
> plonked
>> > on
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>natural cider (cf. Frost's "The Cow in Apple-Time"), hence
> the
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>Injunction.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>However, the most-likely "first" is one of the known
>> > root-starches.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>The earliest under cultivation were various water-lilies
>> > (lotus,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>e.g.) in the Tigris, Nile, Indus, etc.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>What makes it difficult is that written records postdate
>> > Jericho,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>and that the materials of undistilled booze are ephemeral
> and
>> > the
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>tools common pots, obviating archeological evidence.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>making it even harder, one theory has that people travelling
>> > around
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>even pre civilization would make containers out of skins for
>> > water.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>the theory says that they might even put in fruits or honey
> for
>> > taste,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>which of course would have wild yeast on it, and so by
> seeming
>> > magic,
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>a skin here or there would produce an alcoholic elixer. and
> of
>> > course
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>that skin would become imbued with yeast such that pretty
> much
>> > any
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>water/sugar addition would do the trick! and yer just not
>> > gonna find
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>a skin like this in the archeological record.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>Perzakly.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>But the funny thing about statistics is this, that if a thing
>> > has
>> >> >>>>>>>>>>only a chance in a billion of happening, it's fuken well
> gonna
>> > happen.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>No no no, that's only if it's
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>exactly
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>a million to one against.
>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>(The Adams-Pratchett Axiom of Improbability.)
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>Douglas Adams?
>> >> >>>>>>>>(It's a real axiom, and a lot older than he.)
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>?
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>Douglas Adams, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy," "The
>> >> >>>>>>Restaurant at the Edge of the Universe," etc., which makes
> extreme
>> >> >>>>>>use of various improbabilities and pseudoparadoxes in theoretical
>> >> >>>>>>"physics," incl. "The Improbability Drive."
>> >> >>>>>> All(?) such "theories" exist only in isolation; Adams simply
> plugs
>> >> >>>>>>them back into mainstream reality and cackles at the "results."
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Yes, yes?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>Are you speaking simply of the truism that anything not
> impossible
>> > can
>> >> >>>>>>>happen, no matter how unlikely, or something even grottier?
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>Approximately; it's merely an "opening lesson" in almost any
>> >> >>>>>>statistics course/book, i.e., that anything that has even a
>> >> >>>>>>vanishingly small probability of happening damwell /will/
> eventually
>> >> >>>>>>happen, i.e., that it's inevitable.
>> >> >>>>>> It's a crucial point of subatomic physics, planetology, and
>> >> >>>>>>cosmology often forgotten by the careless and never learned by
> those
>> >> >>>>>>who would rather be Faithful.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>"Crucial"? I'd go with the more likely stuff, meself, like what
>> > happens to
>> >> >>>>>a free neutron after about fifteen minutes or at most within an
> hour
>> > or
>> >> >>>>>two (OK, some may never blow).
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Most of my "somewheres" have the half-life of a neutron at ~ten
>> > minutes.
>> >> >>>> And the result is hydrogen.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>It's enough to make your hair stand on end.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>You might could, as you've just jotted me into considering the most
>> >> >>>>probable emission of a White Hole to be a neutron (conservation of
>> >> >>>>charge across the Center Horizon, etc.), which blows fresh hydrogen
>> >> >>>>into the equation (universe) in ten minutes, a.s.
>> >> >>>> It's /hideously/ simpler than electron/positron or
>> >> >>>>proton/antiproton pairs, e.g.; Occam LUUUves you, tnx.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>The next step after all the little bangs is globular clusters.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Perzackly. When they go bang, you get the Population I stuff with
>> >> >>the heavy elements, like us.
>> >> >
>> >> > All iron is old iron. Very very old iron.
>> >>
>> >> Except for the bits that blew out of the most recent nova.
>> >> In a Black Hole, iron (and everything else) recycles to neutrons,
>> >> thence to hydrogen (White Holes). Q.v.
>> >>
>> >> >>>> And while squeezing +- pairs most likely results in a pair of
>> >> >>>>gamma rays, there's no theory or evidence that they cross the
> Center
>> >> >>>>Horizon any more than they do the Event Horizon, whereas squeezing
> an
>> >> >>>>incompressible egg causes it to be laid, so...
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Chicken or turtle?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Neutron, according to the thesis you just jogged me into.
>> >> >> Consider the incompressibility of a neutron star, and the "known"
>> >> >>"evaporation" of Black Holes, however that theory has them
>> >> >>"evaporating" half a photon pair at a time from the /surface/ (Event
>> >> >>Horizon) only.
>> >> >> It's far more (i.e., immediately) probable that the stuff (i.e.,
>> >> >>as neutrons) is "squeezed out" of the /center/, but this requires
>> >> >>aetheric theory.
>> >> >> No, Michelson did /not/ disprove its existence, only its "drag."
>> >> >>There are four blatant errors in his abstract alone, and three of 'em
>> >> >>wouldn't have been committed by a competent grade-schooler.
>> >> >> He was hired to do what he did so that "There can be no doubt that
>> >> >>the Law is whatever the people want" (Holmes, /The Common Law/,
> 1881).
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Squeeze a neutron hard enough in all dimensions, it goes flat (point,
>> >> >>maybe a "naked singularity," but Hawking said it's an entity and
>> >> >>persists -- the recanted part -- where a point is merely a temporary
>> >> >>coordinate set, not an object).
>> >> >> This increases aetheric pressure, q, by the amount of one neutron.
>> >> >> Aether is perfectly elastic (cf. Michelson-Morley).
>> >> >> That pressure pops out a neutron (White Hole) "somewhere,"
>> >> >>anywhere "space-time" ("aether") isn't being "squeezed," and has
>> >> >>"space" and "time" to oscillate.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>Not least in its many (and mostly unregarded) implications.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Well, there's one more.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>I fixed the API Axiom above. Sorry.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>The actual principle has no specific coefficient, and I've never
>> >> >>>>>>heard (to remember it) that it had an attribution name.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>That's Pratchett's emendation of the Adamsian theory of the
> greater
>> > the
>> >> >>>>>improbability the greater the probability.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Hunh. It's one way to put it. Yes.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>They're really only talking about _extreme_ im/probabilities.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Yes; the rest are all around you alla time.
>> >> >> You, e.g.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>>> One feels that Zeno would have propounded it, but then he missed
>> >> >>>>>>so damned much that was right next to what he knew that it makes
> one
>> >> >>>>>>leery of using "any," "all," or "none" in any context outside the
>> >> >>>>>>strictly logical.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>Considering that the propositional logic was not separated out
> from
>> > set
>> >> >>>>>theory until George Boole's _An Investigation of the Laws of
> Thought_
>> >> >>>>>(1854), and the mathematics of form not separated out from
>> > propositional
>> >> >>>>>logic until George Spencer Brown's _Laws of Form_ (1964), I have a
>> >> >>>>>somewhat jaundiced view of earlier philosophy, not to mention the
>> > "Age of
>> >> >>>>>Reason".
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>Aristotle's sets were merely incomplete, but he founded a
>> >> >>>>propositional logic on them that had become a primer litany by the
>> >> >>>>Middle Ages: "Barbara, Celarent, Dorii, Fortieris," each with
> rules
>> >> >>>>of conversion, inversion, and contraposition.
>> >> >>>> Boole completed the sets far more than the priests could permit,
>> >> >>>>which is why they've been bitching about "golems" ever since (cf.
>> >> >>>>Wiener's Second Edition of /Cybernetics/ (1964) and Crick's
> recanting
>> >> >>>>of DNA (~1985)).
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>DNA + cybernetics = "golems," "robots," yatta, that priests can't
>> >> >>afford to admit. (They're quasi-golems, "vampires.")
>> >> >
>> >> > I was actually questioning the "recanting".
>> >>
>> >> Ah. Well, see their own books. Wiener added two chapters to the
>> >> 1933 in 1964, apologising for having supposed man was a mathematical
>> >> golem, and Crick wrote a new book from the top apologising for the
>> >> thought that man might be a reproducible mechanism.
>> >
>> > Well of COURSE man is a reproducible mechanism. Man reproduces all over
> the
>> > place, all the time, over and over.
>> >
>> > Sheesh! You guys make it all so complicated with your philosophical,
>> > mathmatical, and historical references.
>> >
>> > Smee, throwing a monkey wrench in the works
>>
>> I believe it was Dr. Samuel "Dictionary" Johnson who enraged a lot of
>> epistemologists and ontologists and phenomenologists then and later by
>> kicking a rock and saying "Thus I refute Berkeley!"
>
> Occam's Razor.
>
> Smee

Occam's Foot-Cast, more like.

--
tinmimus99@hotmail.com

smeeter 11 or maybe 12

mp 10

mhm 29x13

The chances of finding out what really is going on are so
absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say hang
the sense of it and keep yourself occupied.

< Adams

 

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:24:05 -0500, in alt.aratzio, dave hillstrom
<DaVe@MeOw.OrG> wrote:

>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:22:01 GMT, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>http://www.mercurynews.com/foodheadlines/ci_8311983
>>
>>Hop and Barley prices have increased dramatically, price for *good*
>>beer is going up. Bud-water and Curs unaffected.
>
>good thing i brew my own fermented beverages.

How did the mead work out?


--
Ak'toh'di

 

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:04:27 -0800, in alt.aratzio, Aratzio
<a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:26:32 -0500, in the land of
>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom <DaVe@MeOw.OrG>
>got double secret probation for writing:
>
>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:57:04 GMT, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:46:08 -0800, in
>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, ???hw??f <snuhwolf@netscape.net>
>>>bloviated:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:14:52 -0800
>>>>Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wasted precious bandwith with:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:38:20 -0500, in the land of
>>>>> alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom
>>>>> <DaVe@MeOw.OrG> got double secret probation for writing:
>>>>>
>>>>> >On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:24:48 -0800, Aratzio
>>>>> ><a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:01:55 -0500, in the land of
>>>>> >>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom
>>>>> ><DaVe@MeOw.OrG>>got double secret probation for writing:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:09:26 GMT, Aratzio
>>>>> ><a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>>>wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:24:05 -0500, in
>>>>> >>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom
>>>>> ><DaVe@MeOw.OrG>>>>bloviated:
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:22:01 GMT, Aratzio
>>>>> ><a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>>>>>wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>http://www.mercurynews.com/foodheadlines/ci_8311983
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>Hop and Barley prices have increased dramatically, price for
>>>>> >*good*>>>>>beer is going up. Bud-water and Curs unaffected.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>good thing i brew my own fermented beverages.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>And the cost is going up, IF you can get the good hops
>>>>> >anymore.>>
>>>>> >>>which is why MEAD is so appealing now! hah! NO HOPS!!!!!
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>Yeah, honey is going up faster than the hops, what with all the
>>>>> >bees>dying off.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >a world without flowers and their fruits would be a tragedy
>>>>> >indeed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, all the dead people would smell
>>>>>
>>>>Who said "kill the bees and the rest follow"?
>>>>I think it was Einstein...
>>>>WHY IS THERE A alt.free.newsservers.aratzio???
>>>>You got some 'splainin to do...
>>>
>>>Bowtie, in one of his psychotic fits newgrouped it in my honor.
>>>
>>>At least he didn't go for any of my sock puppets, like Far Canal.
>>
>>that was so funny. 400+ groups newgrouped in one extremely
>>unmedicated night by the bowtie. oh, how we laughed.
>
>I think it was over a week or so. We were scoring at home. Fred Hall
>won with like 110.

When he started to run down, people like me gave him "suggestions".
He rewarded us well. I have about 40-50 fan groups.


--
Ak'toh'di

 

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:22:24 -0700, Bob Officer
<bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote:

>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:24:05 -0500, in alt.aratzio, dave hillstrom
><DaVe@MeOw.OrG> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:22:01 GMT, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>http://www.mercurynews.com/foodheadlines/ci_8311983
>>>
>>>Hop and Barley prices have increased dramatically, price for *good*
>>>beer is going up. Bud-water and Curs unaffected.
>>
>>good thing i brew my own fermented beverages.
>
>How did the mead work out?

quite well when aged maybe 4 months or so.

im going to brew another 3 or 4 five gallon batches over the next
couple weeks, too.

--
dave hillstrom mhm15x4 zrbj

<This space for rent.>

 

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:39:08 -0400, in alt.aratzio, dave hillstrom
<DaVe@MeOw.OrG> wrote:

>On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:22:24 -0700, Bob Officer
><bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:24:05 -0500, in alt.aratzio, dave hillstrom
>><DaVe@MeOw.OrG> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:22:01 GMT, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>http://www.mercurynews.com/foodheadlines/ci_8311983
>>>>
>>>>Hop and Barley prices have increased dramatically, price for *good*
>>>>beer is going up. Bud-water and Curs unaffected.
>>>
>>>good thing i brew my own fermented beverages.
>>
>>How did the mead work out?
>
>quite well when aged maybe 4 months or so.

How was the alcohol content?


>im going to brew another 3 or 4 five gallon batches over the next
>couple weeks, too.

<smiles>


--
Ak'toh'di

 

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:12:25 -0700, Bob Officer
<bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote:

>On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:39:08 -0400, in alt.aratzio, dave hillstrom
><DaVe@MeOw.OrG> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:22:24 -0700, Bob Officer
>><bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:24:05 -0500, in alt.aratzio, dave hillstrom
>>><DaVe@MeOw.OrG> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:22:01 GMT, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.mercurynews.com/foodheadlines/ci_8311983
>>>>>
>>>>>Hop and Barley prices have increased dramatically, price for *good*
>>>>>beer is going up. Bud-water and Curs unaffected.
>>>>
>>>>good thing i brew my own fermented beverages.
>>>
>>>How did the mead work out?
>>
>>quite well when aged maybe 4 months or so.
>
>How was the alcohol content?

prolly a 13.5% one. smooooth after aging. dangerous.

>>im going to brew another 3 or 4 five gallon batches over the next
>>couple weeks, too.
>
><smiles>

--
dave hillstrom mhm15x4 zrbj

<This space for rent.>

 

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:02:11 GMT, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 06:24:32 -0600, in rec.arts.poems, BostonBlackie?
><gangster@hell-flame-wars.org> bloviated:
>
>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:33:30 -0600, Fred Hall <fkhall@gmail.com>
>>employed an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of
>>typewriter to say:
>>
>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:04:27 -0800, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:26:32 -0500, in the land of
>>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom <DaVe@MeOw.OrG>
>>>>got double secret probation for writing:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:57:04 GMT, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:46:08 -0800, in
>>>>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, ???hw??f <snuhwolf@netscape.net>
>>>>>>bloviated:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:14:52 -0800
>>>>>>>Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wasted precious bandwith with:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:38:20 -0500, in the land of
>>>>>>>> alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom
>>>>>>>> <DaVe@MeOw.OrG> got double secret probation for writing:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:24:48 -0800, Aratzio
>>>>>>>> ><a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:01:55 -0500, in the land of
>>>>>>>> >>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom
>>>>>>>> ><DaVe@MeOw.OrG>>got double secret probation for writing:
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:09:26 GMT, Aratzio
>>>>>>>> ><a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:24:05 -0500, in
>>>>>>>> >>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom
>>>>>>>> ><DaVe@MeOw.OrG>>>>bloviated:
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:22:01 GMT, Aratzio
>>>>>>>> ><a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>http://www.mercurynews.com/foodheadlines/ci_8311983
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>Hop and Barley prices have increased dramatically, price for
>>>>>>>> >*good*>>>>>beer is going up. Bud-water and Curs unaffected.
>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>good thing i brew my own fermented beverages.
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>And the cost is going up, IF you can get the good hops
>>>>>>>> >anymore.>>
>>>>>>>> >>>which is why MEAD is so appealing now! hah! NO HOPS!!!!!
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>Yeah, honey is going up faster than the hops, what with all the
>>>>>>>> >bees>dying off.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >a world without flowers and their fruits would be a tragedy
>>>>>>>> >indeed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yeah, all the dead people would smell
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Who said "kill the bees and the rest follow"?
>>>>>>>I think it was Einstein...
>>>>>>>WHY IS THERE A alt.free.newsservers.aratzio???
>>>>>>>You got some 'splainin to do...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bowtie, in one of his psychotic fits newgrouped it in my honor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>At least he didn't go for any of my sock puppets, like Far Canal.
>>>>>
>>>>>that was so funny. 400+ groups newgrouped in one extremely
>>>>>unmedicated night by the bowtie. oh, how we laughed.
>>>>
>>>>I think it was over a week or so. We were scoring at home. Fred Hall
>>>>won with like 110.
>>>
>>>I still haven't decided if that was an honor or not. It was certainly
>>>funny.
>>>
>>>If only I could transfer those scores to the Rangers. We'd win the
>>>World Series. About the only way that will ever happen.
>>
>>Sad, but true. After they saddled themselves with A-Rod rather than
>>filling the real needs at the time, they crippled their ability to fix
>>the real problems.
>
>I still remember trying to tell people back in '99/'00 that Bush was a
>moron. I knew this because I remembered that he took one of the worst
>franchises in baseball and made them even worse. How can you fuck up
>the Rangers? You have to REALLY work at that.

And boy, did Tom Hicks and Jon Daniels work like mad dogs to run the
franchise further into the ground.

We will start the regular season with no pitching staff. Maybe next
year, next decade, next millennium.

--

http://honestjohn777.multiply.com/

 

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:44:32 -0500, Fred Hall <fkhall@gmail.com>
employed an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of
typewriter to say:

>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:02:11 GMT, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 06:24:32 -0600, in rec.arts.poems, BostonBlackie?
>><gangster@hell-flame-wars.org> bloviated:
>>
>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:33:30 -0600, Fred Hall <fkhall@gmail.com>
>>>employed an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of
>>>typewriter to say:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:04:27 -0800, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:26:32 -0500, in the land of
>>>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom <DaVe@MeOw.OrG>
>>>>>got double secret probation for writing:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:57:04 GMT, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:46:08 -0800, in
>>>>>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, ???hw??f <snuhwolf@netscape.net>
>>>>>>>bloviated:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:14:52 -0800
>>>>>>>>Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wasted precious bandwith with:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:38:20 -0500, in the land of
>>>>>>>>> alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom
>>>>>>>>> <DaVe@MeOw.OrG> got double secret probation for writing:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:24:48 -0800, Aratzio
>>>>>>>>> ><a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:01:55 -0500, in the land of
>>>>>>>>> >>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom
>>>>>>>>> ><DaVe@MeOw.OrG>>got double secret probation for writing:
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:09:26 GMT, Aratzio
>>>>>>>>> ><a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:24:05 -0500, in
>>>>>>>>> >>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom
>>>>>>>>> ><DaVe@MeOw.OrG>>>>bloviated:
>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:22:01 GMT, Aratzio
>>>>>>>>> ><a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>http://www.mercurynews.com/foodheadlines/ci_8311983
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>Hop and Barley prices have increased dramatically, price for
>>>>>>>>> >*good*>>>>>beer is going up. Bud-water and Curs unaffected.
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>good thing i brew my own fermented beverages.
>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>And the cost is going up, IF you can get the good hops
>>>>>>>>> >anymore.>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>which is why MEAD is so appealing now! hah! NO HOPS!!!!!
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >>Yeah, honey is going up faster than the hops, what with all the
>>>>>>>>> >bees>dying off.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >a world without flowers and their fruits would be a tragedy
>>>>>>>>> >indeed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yeah, all the dead people would smell
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Who said "kill the bees and the rest follow"?
>>>>>>>>I think it was Einstein...
>>>>>>>>WHY IS THERE A alt.free.newsservers.aratzio???
>>>>>>>>You got some 'splainin to do...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Bowtie, in one of his psychotic fits newgrouped it in my honor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>At least he didn't go for any of my sock puppets, like Far Canal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>that was so funny. 400+ groups newgrouped in one extremely
>>>>>>unmedicated night by the bowtie. oh, how we laughed.
>>>>>
>>>>>I think it was over a week or so. We were scoring at home. Fred Hall
>>>>>won with like 110.
>>>>
>>>>I still haven't decided if that was an honor or not. It was certainly
>>>>funny.
>>>>
>>>>If only I could transfer those scores to the Rangers. We'd win the
>>>>World Series. About the only way that will ever happen.
>>>
>>>Sad, but true. After they saddled themselves with A-Rod rather than
>>>filling the real needs at the time, they crippled their ability to fix
>>>the real problems.
>>
>>I still remember trying to tell people back in '99/'00 that Bush was a
>>moron. I knew this because I remembered that he took one of the worst
>>franchises in baseball and made them even worse. How can you fuck up
>>the Rangers? You have to REALLY work at that.
>
>And boy, did Tom Hicks and Jon Daniels work like mad dogs to run the
>franchise further into the ground.
>
>We will start the regular season with no pitching staff. Maybe next
>year, next decade, next millennium.

If Millwood, Jennings and Ponson could relive their best seasons,
there might be a chance to have some success. Now they have no real
closer and arer "hoping" that CJ Wilson will get it done. If you look
at the potential opening day roster, the team doesn't look hopeless on
paper. Of course, it could become toilet paper rather quickly without
some early success.
--
Boston Blackie?
mhm 29x8

"Enemy to those who make him an enemy. Friend to those who have no
friend."
--from the intro to the Boston Blackie radio show (1945)

"You don't have to be a member of the KKK to be a wizard under the sheets"

Proud member of the I am Spooge lits

 

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 22:30:18 -0500, BostonBlackie?
<gangster@hell-flame-wars.org> wrote:

>On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:44:32 -0500, Fred Hall <fkhall@gmail.com>
>employed an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of
>typewriter to say:
>
>>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:02:11 GMT, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 06:24:32 -0600, in rec.arts.poems, BostonBlackie?
>>><gangster@hell-flame-wars.org> bloviated:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:33:30 -0600, Fred Hall <fkhall@gmail.com>
>>>>employed an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of
>>>>typewriter to say:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:04:27 -0800, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:26:32 -0500, in the land of
>>>>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom <DaVe@MeOw.OrG>
>>>>>>got double secret probation for writing:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:57:04 GMT, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:46:08 -0800, in
>>>>>>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, ???hw??f <snuhwolf@netscape.net>
>>>>>>>>bloviated:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:14:52 -0800
>>>>>>>>>Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wasted precious bandwith with:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:38:20 -0500, in the land of
>>>>>>>>>> alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom
>>>>>>>>>> <DaVe@MeOw.OrG> got double secret probation for writing:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:24:48 -0800, Aratzio
>>>>>>>>>> ><a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> >>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:01:55 -0500, in the land of
>>>>>>>>>> >>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom
>>>>>>>>>> ><DaVe@MeOw.OrG>>got double secret probation for writing:
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:09:26 GMT, Aratzio
>>>>>>>>>> ><a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:24:05 -0500, in
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom
>>>>>>>>>> ><DaVe@MeOw.OrG>>>>bloviated:
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:22:01 GMT, Aratzio
>>>>>>>>>> ><a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>http://www.mercurynews.com/foodheadlines/ci_8311983
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>Hop and Barley prices have increased dramatically, price for
>>>>>>>>>> >*good*>>>>>beer is going up. Bud-water and Curs unaffected.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>good thing i brew my own fermented beverages.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>And the cost is going up, IF you can get the good hops
>>>>>>>>>> >anymore.>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>>which is why MEAD is so appealing now! hah! NO HOPS!!!!!
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >>Yeah, honey is going up faster than the hops, what with all the
>>>>>>>>>> >bees>dying off.
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> >a world without flowers and their fruits would be a tragedy
>>>>>>>>>> >indeed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, all the dead people would smell
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Who said "kill the bees and the rest follow"?
>>>>>>>>>I think it was Einstein...
>>>>>>>>>WHY IS THERE A alt.free.newsservers.aratzio???
>>>>>>>>>You got some 'splainin to do...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Bowtie, in one of his psychotic fits newgrouped it in my honor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>At least he didn't go for any of my sock puppets, like Far Canal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>that was so funny. 400+ groups newgrouped in one extremely
>>>>>>>unmedicated night by the bowtie. oh, how we laughed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think it was over a week or so. We were scoring at home. Fred Hall
>>>>>>won with like 110.
>>>>>
>>>>>I still haven't decided if that was an honor or not. It was certainly
>>>>>funny.
>>>>>
>>>>>If only I could transfer those scores to the Rangers. We'd win the
>>>>>World Series. About the only way that will ever happen.
>>>>
>>>>Sad, but true. After they saddled themselves with A-Rod rather than
>>>>filling the real needs at the time, they crippled their ability to fix
>>>>the real problems.
>>>
>>>I still remember trying to tell people back in '99/'00 that Bush was a
>>>moron. I knew this because I remembered that he took one of the worst
>>>franchises in baseball and made them even worse. How can you fuck up
>>>the Rangers? You have to REALLY work at that.
>>
>>And boy, did Tom Hicks and Jon Daniels work like mad dogs to run the
>>franchise further into the ground.
>>
>>We will start the regular season with no pitching staff. Maybe next
>>year, next decade, next millennium.
>
>If Millwood, Jennings and Ponson could relive their best seasons,
>there might be a chance to have some success. Now they have no real
>closer and arer "hoping" that CJ Wilson will get it done. If you look
>at the potential opening day roster, the team doesn't look hopeless on
>paper. Of course, it could become toilet paper rather quickly without
>some early success.

Yes. And it will probably go down that way. Still, better that than
a repeat of 1983. If the Rangers are going to suck, may they do it
from the start.

I hope my cynicism doesn't show too much.

--

http://honestjohn777.multiply.com/

http://www.coloneljake.com/BAM1BAM/HJC02/

 

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 00:37:22 -0500, Fred Hall <fkhall@gmail.com>
employed an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of
typewriter to say:

>On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 22:30:18 -0500, BostonBlackie?
><gangster@hell-flame-wars.org> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:44:32 -0500, Fred Hall <fkhall@gmail.com>
>>employed an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of
>>typewriter to say:
>>
>>>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:02:11 GMT, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 06:24:32 -0600, in rec.arts.poems, BostonBlackie?
>>>><gangster@hell-flame-wars.org> bloviated:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:33:30 -0600, Fred Hall <fkhall@gmail.com>
>>>>>employed an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of
>>>>>typewriter to say:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:04:27 -0800, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:26:32 -0500, in the land of
>>>>>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom <DaVe@MeOw.OrG>
>>>>>>>got double secret probation for writing:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:57:04 GMT, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:46:08 -0800, in
>>>>>>>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, ???hw??f <snuhwolf@netscape.net>
>>>>>>>>>bloviated:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:14:52 -0800
>>>>>>>>>>Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wasted precious bandwith with:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:38:20 -0500, in the land of
>>>>>>>>>>> alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom
>>>>>>>>>>> <DaVe@MeOw.OrG> got double secret probation for writing:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> >On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:24:48 -0800, Aratzio
>>>>>>>>>>> ><a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> >>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:01:55 -0500, in the land of
>>>>>>>>>>> >>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom
>>>>>>>>>>> ><DaVe@MeOw.OrG>>got double secret probation for writing:
>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:09:26 GMT, Aratzio
>>>>>>>>>>> ><a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:24:05 -0500, in
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom
>>>>>>>>>>> ><DaVe@MeOw.OrG>>>>bloviated:
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:22:01 GMT, Aratzio
>>>>>>>>>>> ><a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>http://www.mercurynews.com/foodheadlines/ci_8311983
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>Hop and Barley prices have increased dramatically, price for
>>>>>>>>>>> >*good*>>>>>beer is going up. Bud-water and Curs unaffected.
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>good thing i brew my own fermented beverages.
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>And the cost is going up, IF you can get the good hops
>>>>>>>>>>> >anymore.>>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>which is why MEAD is so appealing now! hah! NO HOPS!!!!!
>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>Yeah, honey is going up faster than the hops, what with all the
>>>>>>>>>>> >bees>dying off.
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> >a world without flowers and their fruits would be a tragedy
>>>>>>>>>>> >indeed.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, all the dead people would smell
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Who said "kill the bees and the rest follow"?
>>>>>>>>>>I think it was Einstein...
>>>>>>>>>>WHY IS THERE A alt.free.newsservers.aratzio???
>>>>>>>>>>You got some 'splainin to do...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Bowtie, in one of his psychotic fits newgrouped it in my honor.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>At least he didn't go for any of my sock puppets, like Far Canal.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>that was so funny. 400+ groups newgrouped in one extremely
>>>>>>>>unmedicated night by the bowtie. oh, how we laughed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I think it was over a week or so. We were scoring at home. Fred Hall
>>>>>>>won with like 110.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I still haven't decided if that was an honor or not. It was certainly
>>>>>>funny.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If only I could transfer those scores to the Rangers. We'd win the
>>>>>>World Series. About the only way that will ever happen.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sad, but true. After they saddled themselves with A-Rod rather than
>>>>>filling the real needs at the time, they crippled their ability to fix
>>>>>the real problems.
>>>>
>>>>I still remember trying to tell people back in '99/'00 that Bush was a
>>>>moron. I knew this because I remembered that he took one of the worst
>>>>franchises in baseball and made them even worse. How can you fuck up
>>>>the Rangers? You have to REALLY work at that.
>>>
>>>And boy, did Tom Hicks and Jon Daniels work like mad dogs to run the
>>>franchise further into the ground.
>>>
>>>We will start the regular season with no pitching staff. Maybe next
>>>year, next decade, next millennium.
>>
>>If Millwood, Jennings and Ponson could relive their best seasons,
>>there might be a chance to have some success. Now they have no real
>>closer and arer "hoping" that CJ Wilson will get it done. If you look
>>at the potential opening day roster, the team doesn't look hopeless on
>>paper. Of course, it could become toilet paper rather quickly without
>>some early success.
>
>Yes. And it will probably go down that way. Still, better that than
>a repeat of 1983. If the Rangers are going to suck, may they do it
>from the start.
>
>I hope my cynicism doesn't show too much.

Not at all. Looks more like attention to reality. If I wanna see
some baseball and have a good time, there's always the Rough Riders up
in Frisco.
--
Boston Blackie?
mhm 29x8

"Enemy to those who make him an enemy. Friend to those who have no
friend."
--from the intro to the Boston Blackie radio show (1945)

"You don't have to be a member of the KKK to be a wizard under the sheets"

Proud member of the I am Spooge lits

In Message-ID: <2cc26cfc-1ccc-42fc-ad29-c041b7f0f7ad@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Gerald Newton proudly displayed his racism with:
"Hey, the nigger, Boston Blackie is back. How you doing, nigger?"

 

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:18:50 -0400, in alt.aratzio, dave hillstrom
<DaVe@MeOw.OrG> wrote:

>On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:12:25 -0700, Bob Officer
><bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:39:08 -0400, in alt.aratzio, dave hillstrom
>><DaVe@MeOw.OrG> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:22:24 -0700, Bob Officer
>>><bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:24:05 -0500, in alt.aratzio, dave hillstrom
>>>><DaVe@MeOw.OrG> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:22:01 GMT, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.mercurynews.com/foodheadlines/ci_8311983
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hop and Barley prices have increased dramatically, price for *good*
>>>>>>beer is going up. Bud-water and Curs unaffected.
>>>>>
>>>>>good thing i brew my own fermented beverages.
>>>>
>>>>How did the mead work out?
>>>
>>>quite well when aged maybe 4 months or so.
>>
>>How was the alcohol content?
>
>prolly a 13.5% one. smooooth after aging. dangerous.

I Think, I told you so...

You'll need a hang over cure if you drink too much.

I fond a bee keeper that will sell the honey to me for the same price
he sells to the government. I bought 25 lbs of Almond and sage honey.

I am making up next winter mead this next week. I'll age it out over
the summer.

>>>im going to brew another 3 or 4 five gallon batches over the next
>>>couple weeks, too.
>>
>><smiles>

--
Ak'toh'di

 

"Bob Officer" <bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote in message

> You'll need a hang over cure if you drink too much.

Injun Bob is an expert on drinking too much!!

Number One

At the end of a tiny deserted bar sits Indian Bob. Bob's having a few
"Fire Waters" when a well dressed, and obviously Gay man named Art Deco
walks in and sits down beside him.

After three or four "Fire Waters" Art finally plucks up the courage to
say something to Indian Bob. Leaning over towards him, he whispers, "Do
you want a blow job?"

At this, Indian Bob leaps up with fire in his eyes and smacks Art in the
face knocking him swiftly off his stool. He proceeds to beat Art all the
way out of the bar before leaving the Faggot bruised and battered in the
parking lot, then returns to his seat.

Amazed, the bartender quickly brings over another "Fire Water" to Indian
Bob. "I've never seen you react like that," he says. "Just what did Art
say to you?"

" I don't know," Indian Bob replied. "Something about a job".

 

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:02:57 -0700, Bob Officer
<bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote:

>On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:18:50 -0400, in alt.aratzio, dave hillstrom
><DaVe@MeOw.OrG> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:12:25 -0700, Bob Officer
>><bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:39:08 -0400, in alt.aratzio, dave hillstrom
>>><DaVe@MeOw.OrG> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:22:24 -0700, Bob Officer
>>>><bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:24:05 -0500, in alt.aratzio, dave hillstrom
>>>>><DaVe@MeOw.OrG> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:22:01 GMT, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.mercurynews.com/foodheadlines/ci_8311983
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hop and Barley prices have increased dramatically, price for *good*
>>>>>>>beer is going up. Bud-water and Curs unaffected.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>good thing i brew my own fermented beverages.
>>>>>
>>>>>How did the mead work out?
>>>>
>>>>quite well when aged maybe 4 months or so.
>>>
>>>How was the alcohol content?
>>
>>prolly a 13.5% one. smooooth after aging. dangerous.
>
>I Think, I told you so...
>
>You'll need a hang over cure if you drink too much.
>
>I fond a bee keeper that will sell the honey to me for the same price
>he sells to the government. I bought 25 lbs of Almond and sage honey.
>
>I am making up next winter mead this next week. I'll age it out over
>the summer.

mmmmm. id love to be able to find affordable variatal honeys. and i
really am finding that aging is ~the~ real key.

>>>>im going to brew another 3 or 4 five gallon batches over the next
>>>>couple weeks, too.
>>>
>>><smiles>

--
dave hillstrom mhm15x4 zrbj

<This space for rent.>

 

On 22 Feb, 04:46, dave hillstrom <D...@MeOw.OrG> wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:13:14 -0800, Aratzio <a6ahly...@sneakemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:47:01 -0500, in the land of
> >alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom <D...@MeOw.OrG>
> >got double secret probation for writing:
>
> >>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:03:19 -0800, Aratzio <a6ahly...@sneakemail.com>
> >>wrote:
>
> >>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:18:51 -0500, in the land of
> >>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom <D...@MeOw.OrG>
> >>>got double secret probation for writing:
>
> >>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:21:23 GMT, Aratzio <a6ahly...@sneakemail.com>
> >>>>wrote:
>
> >>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:22:01 GMT, in
> >>>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, Aratzio
> >>>>><a6ahly...@sneakemail.com> bloviated:
>
> >>>>>>http://www.mercurynews.com/foodheadlines/ci_8311983
>
> >>>>>>Hop and Barley prices have increased dramatically, price for *good*
> >>>>>>beer is going up. Bud-water and Curs unaffected.
>
> >>>>>Who cares about the history of beer you tards, the future of beer is
> >>>>>EXPENSIVE! We must do something now. We must form a working group to
> >>>>>discuss the ramificatios of the price and the negative impact by said
> >>>>>price with respect to our daily budgets. What must we trim from our
> >>>>>budget to insure an adequate BEER supply. Is there a Beer Futures
> >>>>>market where we can make long term strategic buys to lock in current
> >>>>>prices in the very changing Beer financial market.
>
> >>>>>Stop discussing history, start planning the future.
>
> >>>>>TAKE BACK OUR BEER!
>
> >>>>theyre selling six packs of schlitz malt liquor at the quickie mart
> >>>>for $3.99.
>
> >>>They still make Shitz?
>
> >>dunno, but the strohs brewery certainly makes quite a bit of malt
> >>liquor.
>
> >You do know Strohs spelled backwrds is Shorts
>
> which is fine with me. filtering through the undies of the dallas
> cheerleaders would be a grand sales point.


[insert joke about sources for yeast]

 

<veronica.karlsson@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3787314f-e882-4db0-98f8-4cf2f6b4c279@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On 22 Feb, 04:46, dave hillstrom <D...@MeOw.OrG> wrote:
> > On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:13:14 -0800, Aratzio <a6ahly...@sneakemail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > >On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:47:01 -0500, in the land of
> > >alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom <D...@MeOw.OrG>
> > >got double secret probation for writing:
> >
> > >>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:03:19 -0800, Aratzio <a6ahly...@sneakemail.com>
> > >>wrote:
> >
> > >>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:18:51 -0500, in the land of
> > >>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, dave hillstrom <D...@MeOw.OrG>
> > >>>got double secret probation for writing:
> >
> > >>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:21:23 GMT, Aratzio <a6ahly...@sneakemail.com>
> > >>>>wrote:
> >
> > >>>>>On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:22:01 GMT, in
> > >>>>>alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk, Aratzio
> > >>>>><a6ahly...@sneakemail.com> bloviated:
> >
> > >>>>>>http://www.mercurynews.com/foodheadlines/ci_8311983
> >
> > >>>>>>Hop and Barley prices have increased dramatically, price for
*good*
> > >>>>>>beer is going up. Bud-water and Curs unaffected.
> >
> > >>>>>Who cares about the history of beer you tards, the future of beer
is
> > >>>>>EXPENSIVE! We must do something now. We must form a working group
to
> > >>>>>discuss the ramificatios of the price and the negative impact by
said
> > >>>>>price with respect to our daily budgets. What must we trim from our
> > >>>>>budget to insure an adequate BEER supply. Is there a Beer Futures
> > >>>>>market where we can make long term strategic buys to lock in
current
> > >>>>>prices in the very changing Beer financial market.
> >
> > >>>>>Stop discussing history, start planning the future.
> >
> > >>>>>TAKE BACK OUR BEER!
> >
> > >>>>theyre selling six packs of schlitz malt liquor at the quickie mart
> > >>>>for $3.99.
> >
> > >>>They still make Shitz?
> >
> > >>dunno, but the strohs brewery certainly makes quite a bit of malt
> > >>liquor.
> >
> > >You do know Strohs spelled backwrds is Shorts
> >
> > which is fine with me. filtering through the undies of the dallas
> > cheerleaders would be a grand sales point.
>
>
> [insert joke about sources for yeast]

*spluttersnort*

Now look what you made me do!

*cleans coffee off of keyboard*

Smee