The Dumbing down of America

I can't wait til they find a human skull in a t-rex belly. that would solve this once and for all!!

 

Check the dictionary for a definition of proof. "Proof, Evidence establishing the validitity of a given assertion, conclusive demonstration."

Charlie

 

I have two Computer degrees, computer science and computer technology. After attaining the first degree in 1986, I worked as an operator of 2 DEC VAX-11 computers. 4.65 an hour, after a year, I was offered a 15 cent raise or layoff, I chose the layoff. went back to tree climbing for $8.00 an hour. In 2000, I got my second degree. GPA - 3.95, one 'B'. Sent out 60 resumes. Only heard back from 1 company saying they didn't need anyone. Worked as a network administratoe at my local school district. I had to run 3 schools and 300 computers. This job paid $120 a week, no benefits. I went back to climbing trees for $16.00 an hour. I think I must have been out of my tree to expect employment from education.

 

Well,I guess you can take the boy out of the tree, but you can't take the tree out of the boy.

 

16.00 bucks an hour for climbing trees? do you have to do anything once you are up there or just keep moving from branch to branch?

yeah everyone ran for a computer degree and now the field is over saturated.and now the (electrician,construction,mechanics) fields have thinned out alot. and these are the high paying jobs now.(not compared to lawyer or doctor but you know what i mean).

 

I'll through out a theory: I think the problem is, in part, due to the fact that somewhere along the line, kids discovered that failure is an option, and when it happens the world does not end.

Most of us past 30 can probably look back and remember the panic at a low test grade. We can remember struggling with things we didn't understand, and remember the fear of failure. I think that has significantly declined in today's youth. I remember having guest speakers in our classrooms that spoke to the student of the dangers of 'burn out' in the wake of forcing over performance in high school.

Now it seems like everything is experimental - class schedules that alternate, and systems that don't make any sense... Some evenings my daughter doesn't even remember if she has trig or chemistry the next day. It's ridiculous. The easy things have been 'tweaked' until they become complicated - the complicated things have been 'reworked' until I can barely understand it. Flat out, our school systems have become bloated with administration departments. Honestly, how many of us CARE how our kids schools are being administered? How are they teaching - that's all that matters. That's all that ever mattered. Fire three of the four vice-principles and their office staff and get more teachers... What can four vice-principles do all day long, anyway??

Remind the schools that we only care about one thing. I don't want a better mouse trap, I want the same one that caught mice ten years ago, just fine.

Now if you will excuse me, I had to rent this soap box by the hour...

 

"The nerve of that teacher thinking that 11 year olds weren't old enought to be subjected to stacks of naked, smoking bodies being piled into mass graves! He/She should be fired. Sorry, but me thinks that wasn't appropriate for show and tell either",
Samjimmy.

Sam I think I know where you are coming from with this and I fully respect your viewpoint for it does have valid points
but
I think it is very appropriate to show kids that evil exisits in the world and that good as well as evil is inside of all of us and it is up to us to realize that and choose wisely.

Illya,
My question then is why is the Theory of Evolution being taught more and more as Evolution without the Theory part being mentioned in various school text books and classroom lectures.

Leftist Fundamentalism - now there is an oxymoron if I've ever heard one", Moen.

Moen finally admits that Leftists are fundamentalist have bad complexions and are morons to boot.

See OldDan, Moen is coming out of the closet or crossing the aisle or something like that.

 

Evidence establishing the validity of a given assertion. Doesn't say you have to conclusively show that every part of the theory is true. I'd be immensely surprised if SOMEONE out there has not shown him SOME SHRED of proof. He has most likely chosen to ignore those facts.

 

If I could zip back to a comment that was made concerning evolution being a theory that man could do anything he wants - I think it more has to do with natural selection and environmental conditions... I don't think evolution really has anything to do with man doing anything to control the outcome.

And I have to go with AJ - it is, in now way, a 'religion'.

 

But Rick, (speaking as a kid who has gone through this "complex" system) sometimes we have to experiment in order to change things for the better. That's not to say that they always do change for the better, but I think schools do need to change in the light that 21st century society holds. Experimenting with these systems is the only way to do that.

Personally, I was in a school 2 years ago that had alternating schedules and four vice-principles and non-"standard" systemology, and I enjoyed it. I didn't have to sit through the same dull classes every day. I was able to slate my classes in a way that allowed me to take the classes I enjoyed (AP Chemistry; yeah, I was a dork.... I know it already, so can the jokes! ) in between the classes I didn't (Economics). Then I had all-week classes which included choir (yes, I was a dorky choir kid.... no more laughing!!!! ), Trigonometry, and AP Senior English.

This system was a lot better than sitting through shorter class periods of the same 5/6/7/8 classes every single day of the week for 2 main reasons:
1. I didn't have to sit through the same classes every day (that gets really old).
and 2. since the class periods were longer, our classes every day were able to go more in-depth into whatever material we were covering - in Chem. we were able to do more complex experiments, in English we could have better discussions and more time to look at particular passages or concepts in greater detail. Things like that.

Prior to this system, in 7th/8th grades I remember the other system of each class for 52 minutes every day Monday through Friday and how burned out everybody used to get. We had an average of one hour's worth of homework every night (except Fri.) for each class. That amounts to roughly 7 hours of work a night. Getting home at 4pm, we could then expect to be doing homework well into the night. Compare that to the other (and IMO, better) system, where we had 3-4 classes per day for longer periods, and thus an average of 3-4 hours of work a night. Much less stressful.

As for the four-VP idea, I can see what their thinking was, split up the students (in an average high school, as mine was, you have 1500-2000 students) into four groups, and let each VP take care of the 300-500 student bloc. It facilitates the ability of the school to help take better care of students needs and problems.

Anyway, that's my take on that issue, speaking from experience in the systems. It's really not a bad way to do things. Implementation of the system seems to me to be the only thing that could become better.

~AJ

 

By the way, I'd like to give you the FULL definition of proof, so that next time, you don't look like you're trying to hide the parts of the definition that don't support what you are saying.

From Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, May, 2002 Edition:
proof: 1. Evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true or believable. 2. anything serving as such evidence. 3. the act of testing or trying anything; test; trial: to put such a thing to the proof . 4. the establishment of the truth of anything; demonstration.

5. judicial proceedings
6. test for materials in manufacturing
7. alcohol strength
8. photography
9. trial impression
10. coinage
11. the state of having been tested
12. withstand-ability
13. used for testing or proving; serving as proof
14. standard strength measurement
15. proven strength, as in armor
16. to examine for errors
17. printing/editing
18. to proofread
19. to treat for prevention against damage
20. to cause bread to rise by adding yeast
21. to bubble or foam when mixed with warm liquids (baking)

Obviously, #5-#21 have little to no bearing on the particular context for the word "proof" we are debating here, and thus I have paraphrased their actual definitions.

 

Well, one thing I think you never mess with much is education systems. You're right with the 21st century and all, but I say - how much in core math has changed in the last 25 years? What about english or science? Sure, since and mathmatics have come a long way in the last 25 years, but not at the grade school education level...

My daughter is doing the same problems I did, applying the same methodology - but the structure is no longer... structured. Why clutter the mind with minutia?

If all these side changes produced positive results, I would be the first person to praise the system for giving my daughter a better education than I had - but I don't see that happening. I hear a whole lot of excuses from the district, and from the nation as a whole - they blame no child left behind, when 'no child left behind' should have been something given, not something enforced... They blame larger classroom sizes, or lack of funds, or... (insert whatever here).

 

O/T Hey Zane why the 1950 pr quarter?

 

Perhaps the school system in my particular city just worked better than in yours for whatever reason.

 

Nope---but neither were you....and as I said...I have a friend that was...GOD and it wasn't handed down from person to person to person to person...it was between 2 people...you see I believe the Bible was inspired by God.

I don't accept that as fact...because I believe the Bible account. Would you site your sources for this?

I have and as I said....I will...but I also hope you will.....there are some good books from the sites I listed AIG and ICR for good prices....a little reseach on that might be helpful too....

I think you are talking about where I said Darwin and others killed for the fun of it....
An article "Darwin's Impact--The Bloodstained Legacy Of Evolution" by Raymond Hall...this is one of 2 articles I read.

I would have said AJ but I couldn't remember who said it and I was going out the door....sorry....BTW...if you read the Bible you would also have read about a few people being raised from the dead....

Nothing taken wrong...I guess I can get a little hot headed over some topic...see why I like to talk about coins more


Now back to coins...

Speedy

 

It's gonna be really fun to see people's reactions, like yours, once they finally get the technology to prove Evolution once and for all. No amount of prayer or belief in "God" will help ya then. You have this mindset that I can't even begin to debate with because you are not open-minded in the least. You have taken the Bible to be 100% fact, when it is really not. It's, like I said before, a bunch of hokey through the Old Testament.

I'm sorry and I pity you that you can't see what is lying right before your very eyes - that this all loving thing out there that you have such faith in is smoke and mirrors. I mean, honestly, you haven't really even been reading my posts, or you would stop commenting that you wish I'd look some of this up. As I said in a previous post, I have, and I continue to, and the only logical conclusion that I (or anyone else with a logical mind) could possible come up with is my argument.

But since it's rather obvious that you cannot back up anything that you are saying with any kind of fact or proof or debatable argument, I would suggest that you simply stop right there with this sermon of yours, since all you are being is intolerant of my views.

~AJ

 

Questions for evolutionists

Here is an excerpt from Dr. Kent Hovind's website http://drdino.com:
The following are questions for evolutionists that the creationists want answered. After I post the questions, I will tell you what Creationism says about each question.

1. God did it.
2. God did it.
3. God did it.
4. God did it. Hm. It's getting old typing this. I'll just do this:
5-19. God did it.

See a pattern? Creationists are taking the easy way out. Why did this happen? Oh, it was an all-powerful being's idea of fun on a Saturday morning istead of watching cartoons. Why is that the way it is? Oh, well, see, there was this all-powerful being that decided one day that it would make it that way.

It would be a lot more self-satisfying to be able to prove even one of those above questions without all the crap from the Creationists using the only true form of enlightenment, science. And soon enough, with the advances the world has in technology, we will.

And just so you don't get the idea that Dr. Dino's webiste carries no merit, here's another of the Creationists' great arguments, straight from Dr. Kent Hovind himself:

Man that stirs the soul. Not that the good doctor is in any way being cynical. What a load of bull. And this from the same man who professes himself to be

Hm. Good reference source.

~AJ

 

Many kids (I'd venture to say too many), not only know that evil exists today, they experience it first hand in their neighborhoods and in some cases, their own homes. One of my past students (now 10 years old) was sitting in a car with her family that was mistaken for a rival gang member's car. Most cut up from glass, dad shot in the cheek (he lived). If they don't get to experience it first hand, all one has to do is turn on the news on any given day.

I don't have the answers as to what age *is* appropriate in regards to showing children such horrors, but I think it is understandable that there has to be a cut-off somewhere.

Actually there has been quite a bit of progress in the last 25 years in regards to how mathematics is taught, what is taught, etc. I will let you judge whether it is a good thing or not, but I assure you that there have been changes, and these changes have started at the grade school level.

Really too lengthy of a discussion to go into here.

Again, this is really too difficult to go into here, but...

NCLB in some ways seems to make sense, as do state standards. The problem is that NCLB is really taken to the extreme, and severely disabled children are being mainstreamed into regular classrooms without helpers, and expected to progress at specified rates, as are other students (and other students are divided in to sub-groups: spanish speaking, african american, low income, etc., all supposed to increase despite facotrs such as low income, no parental involvement, etc.).

NCLB means *all* children. Good in theory, but without funding and training to support these students, there's a gap, and guess who gets to deal with the gap? Those overpaid teachers.

Must stop, as I could go on, but the point is that you have a diverse population of students, of varying abilities and disabilities, mixed with a load of educational theory (very little is definitive regarding what works and what doesn't), with teachers of varying abilities, held to standards whcih are often revised and made more difficult, being tested by questional (at best) methods which determine how that teacher, that student, that administrator, and that school is doing. Ultimately affecting your property value and if your neighborhood is a desirable place to buy in.

There's not one way of doing any of this, and too many people have their hand in how it "should be" done.

 

This is the truth...I have read every word of every post you have made...sometimes more than once....and I do wish you would look it up because you have a mindset that will get you into a problem sometime in your life.

Sad state of mind.

AJ--I have not been intolerant of anything...I have looked at everything you posted...I have read everything you said....I never started a sermon...I could have but I didn't....
I'll stop here because it is clear that you don't want the truth...and that isn't new...not many people have ever wanted it....

Have a good day.

Speedy

 

You guys have some of it right and some of it wrong. They don't call me bonedigger for nothing. Me, I'm both an evolutionist and a creationist, it can be done.

One simply must stop trying to put a finite date on when ape or flatworm became man. At some point with divine intervention (GOD) this transformation came to pass. Yes, our genes and mitochondrial dna can be linked to virtually every living thing on the planet which lends credence to the evolution theory. I mean duh, we came from the first living thing, but when GOD stepped in, we became man.

Thats ALL I'll say on the subject, too many hurt feelings and closed minds. I suggest the older movie "Altered States."

Bone