The Dumbing down of America

jeez every educated person knows that humans were made by super intelligent aliens 147 thousand years ago.

prove me wrong.

hehe im going to get flamed for this one.

"nietzschis dead" signed GOD
i love that one

 

Ahem.... Again you are putting words into my mouth, Speedy. I never, ever, ever, ever, ever (get my point?) said that I know everything on this subject, and I kind of resent the implication.

Creationism as way too farfetched to be believable - and here's why: Spontaneous creation of living matter out of non-living dirt (as was used in Genesis) is impossible. Creation of a woman from the ribs of a man is impossible. You have said that you have to take the Bible at full face value -

... and that is just plain illogical, and WRONG. It requires that there be an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-seeing, "being" out there with the A.) desire to create humans for some odd reason, and B.) the technological capability to do so from dirt. Obviously, this is untrue, and therefore I decline to accept this as any sort of fact.

Furthermore, if this God is indeed "out there" somewhere, why in the last 2000 years has "He" not shown "Himself"? I mean, come on. In the Bible God was all over this stuff. Showing himself to Moses, speaking to a bunch of different people, sending a son down as a physical manifestation of himself.... etc, etc. So where has he been hiding?

The theory of Creation is just way too full of holes and myth to be construed as any sort of fact at all.

Do you think Galileo got it right on the first time he spoke to the Catholic Church and tried to convince everyone that the Earth wasn't the center of the universe? And look what happened to him - he got shot down and placed under house arrest. So our technology got a date wrong here or there. There's still a volume of more evidence for Evolution over Creation. One of these days I think YOU'LL see that the Evolutionists got it right, and Creation is proven wrong once and for all.

I do think that I can be perfectly fine debating this. A debate is a conversation between two people with opposing points of view who are trying to catagorically disprove what the other is saying. This is exactly what we have here. So, yes, you are debating this topic.

As for finding the error in our ways, all I'm doing is helping you see the error in yours.

~AJ

 

Your right...we should be teaching this in the home....but as long as the school is doing it they might as well do both sides and not one....

Sorry about that....but your post did point to that way...

And I guess it is just normal that everyone came from an ape...give me a break.

Have you ever read a Bible...a KJV Bible???
There is a GOD that is all knowing and all seeing...and you need to think about that good and hard.

He hasn't been hiding....you just haven't looked for him.
Sure he isn't in a body but neither is Geroge Washington...but since there is a life after death old Geroge is somewhere...

It is fact....

Were you there???...when the earth was formed????....no...but if you read the Bible you will read of someone who was...I think it was you that said that parts of the Bible had been proven....well read any part of it....but by and by it will all point to the same thing....GOD made the earth and everything in it for his glory

I'm sorry but I have an non hold thinking in this...

Since we both won't agree with this my hope is that you will seach out some of the Creationists material and read it with an open mind. I have listened to some evolutionist's views.
Sorry AJ...I hope that someday you will agree with me and see the error I see in your way of thinking.

Speedy

 

Such a young mind...Such a closed mind. Reminds me of the old saying, "Always hire a teenager for the job, you can pay them nothing and they already know everything."

 

This points out the flaw in your thinking pretty clearly. You said, "they might as well do both sides and not one..." What makes you think that there are ONLY two sides? There are multiple factions, religions, cults, ideologies, beliefs that represent themselves as the supposed truth but it is always framed as us against them. Where do you draw the line and why would anyone use your standard as the benchmark for teaching or not teaching something. Are you just that right? Come on Speedy!

 

Alright Moen
You don't want the schools to teach creation....I don't want them to teach evolution...but is that going to make them stop....nope...
The reason I said two is because they are the two that are talked about the most and what most people hear about....
There is a right side and a wrong side....and that is the 2 sides

And why would anyone use your???
I hope that one day the schools will see the facts and see how they have been doped...

I could say the same thing to you

Speedy

 

Is there some misunderstanding of the meaning or usage of the term "evolution"? Is not evolution the process of natural-selection? How can any civilized person deny the complex process of natural-selection? Natural-selection occurs all the time, everywhere on the planet. Natural-selection has been occurring on the earth for at least a billion years. The fossil record, supported by radioactive dates, proves this. The presence of fat humans supports the concept.

Please explain where the gaps in "information" exist that prove "evolution", or natural selection, has not happened.

I would like someone to also explain why chimps share 98 percent of the DNA of humans? Why does a flat worm have 50 percent of our DNA (or whatever the percentage is).

Why are humans so close to other mammals in physiology?

Please explain how the world is really only 6,000 years old.

Please explain how oncology apparently recapitulates phylogeny. Sorry, but I believe that progressive cell-growth was first recognized by a French scientist.

Finally, why is observable natural selection over a period of a billion years inconsistent with a belief in God?

 

Wow! It would appear that this "OLD FART" really slammed the young and unexperienced kid for tellling it as he views the world. Sure sounds like something I would have said to someone else during these "debates".

Your not only starting to think like I do, but your also starting to act as I have acted toward some other young punk in this forum. Yes sir, Moen.....your changing for the better!

 

Speedy, the scientific process is what determines the science itself. Whereas evolution may conflict with faith in many instances, it is re-affirmed by the scientific process - it can be confirmed through repeating the study by anyone with the education and equipment to conduct it. There is gaps, all too true, but you are talking about a very very long period of non-written history that scientists are trying to assemble based on remaining evidence.

It's not a whole lot different than physics applied at the sub-atomic level. There is recorded evidence of anomoly regarding random displacement - it doesn't mean that physics as a science is wrong, it means we haven't developed the science enough to explain the occurances. Either that, or our ability to accurately record the occurance is faulty. But because of that, you don't abandon physics as a whole.

Creationism cannot, to my knowledge, be confirmed with non-biased scientific process. Does that mean it's wrong? No - it means it's a belief that cannot be proven by scientific standards. In many people's opinion, it is this point that determines that it should not be presented as science in a public classroom. Science needs to be independantly verifiable - regardless of who is doing the study. In my opinion, that is a standard that the american education system can never afford to tamper with.

 

run Moen, run while there's still time!

 

I thought that since you all say Evolutionist are right and that they have been proven right that I thought I would post the names of the top known scientest that tell another story....many of these guys were Evolutionist ....all have degrees from collages around the world..

Dr Jobe Martin
Dr Werner Gitt
Dr Lee Spenter
Dr Michael Denton
Dr Carl Wieland

and the list goes on....

Quich dog
As I said I can't tell it as good as some can...write AIG or even ICR...

And radioactive and carbon dating have all been proven wrong...try the case of the Petrifide Ham...

I don't think I ever said it was...I do think that it is not smart to go with billions of years and still say you believe in GOD...the two things don't add up...either you go with what GOD said or you go with MAN...and man has been proven wrong many times...
Also what about the questions I asked AJ....were you there???...if so then maybe I can take your word but untill you come up with someone that was there....forget it.
GOD was there....people that believe in GOD will tell you that He is always there and has always been here...so He is the One I'll trust..

As for your other questions....I can't say...I'm not an expert on this...in fact I'm not an expert on anything but I think evolution is a made up story and I wish you all would look into the holes in it...

As for natural-selection....I don't think anybody would want to have that today....Hitler was a person who thought that natural-selection was right...that is why he killed so many....Darwin liked the idea...that is why he killed for the joy of killing...many other of the people in the world that go on killing sprees would also tell you that natural-selection is right....and more than likely the people that are killers are believers in evolution...that is a fact too...I have talked to policemen that have studied that...I surely don't believe that all evolutionist are bad people or evil just I think misguided...


Facts have been shown...proof has been laid on the table...I have set it all out before you to the best I can.

I hope that you will search this out---I have and I hope you will...

Someone said it was hard to think that someone made man out of dust...well buddy...guess what...when a person dies, after time (a few months if I remember right) their bones and flesh go back to...guess what...dust..

Let's agree to disagree...and let's all get back to a topic of coins...I know that is why we all come here...
I also will still be searching this out...I hope you will be too.

Speedy

 

All of those sources are from people who want to disprove carbon dating. For example, if they were to cite the International journal of radio-isotope dating, then they might be a little more reliable. I did a search for the case of the petrified ham, and could not find a single reference outside of Christian creationist pages. Granted carbon dating has its flaws, william libby, the man who created it will even tell you, however egregious mistakes are not usually made.

 

I am more able to believe that than these obscenely farfetched notions of creation by some being that doesn't show up to anyone. As you said:

I just haven't looked for him, huh? Exactly where am I supposed to look? All of the "fact" that people "see" that could possibly explain "God" is all conjecture. A "sign" here or a "miracle" there. It's not based in any kind of fact or proof. 100% conjecture and speculation.

Um... yeah. That's why I said I am knowledgeable enough to be able to debate this topic. I have read the Bible, the Qur'an, Jewish scriptures, and studied several other religions. I think that I have a pretty darn good base in being able to see both sides, as well. And would you please not get so defensive? That's what you're doing right now because I disagree with you.

Yo, Speedy.... were YOU there when the earth was formed? No. But if you read the Bible you will read of someone that supposedly was and whose story was passed down by WORD OF MOUTH for the supposed length of a couple millennia. I think it was I that said that some parts of the Bible MAY HAVE BEEN proven. There is evidence to suggest that things like the Red Sea parting may have been caused by an earthquake which rapidly split the water level. But that was observed by others who wrote the event down as it happened. Who wrote the story of Genesis as it was happening? Um.... according to you and the Bible, nobody. Don't be so quick to believe everything you hear or read in a book. That's all that this is. A nice fiction novel to explain the world for at the very least the chapters of Genesis and Exodus.

Since we both won't agree with this my hope is that you will search out some of the non-Creationist material and read it with an open mind. I have listened to MANY Creationists views (if the number of times that I have done research into this very topic are an indication). Sorry, Speedy.... I hope that someday you will agree with me and see the error I see in your way of thinking.

~AJ

 

We are not all equal. It is not possible that every student can get an A in every subject. Some students are better in English, while others excel in Math. The same holds for the arts.

Why do we try to force every student into the same mold?

Each teacher must be careful to show each student encouragement and not to put up road blocks that can stunt a student's ability to learn.

 

I'm terribly sorry, Spencer. I, unlike some people, can't be here 24-7. I have classes and meetings to attend to. I have now answered your "questions" and provided some of my own to help show you of your misguidedness.

Ha! Try the holes in Creationism if you would, please. Creation is a bunch of hokey fiction.

Cite your source.

What facts have you provided? All you've done is put down the theory of Evolution. You haven't provided a SINGLE fact here.

You can use my name. You don't have to try to hide that I said that. Also, a decomposing body going to dust is a one way trip, buddy. I wanna see the "God" who can turn it back to flesh.

~AJ

 

There is no PROOF for either evolution or creation. They are both religions.

Creation: God created man and man must follow God's commandments.

Evolution: Man is god and can do whatever he wants.

I have not read all of this thread, so this may have already been pointed out.

My favorite speaker on creation vs. evolution is Kent Hovind He is very interesting to listen to and he mixes a lot of humor in with his talks.

Charlie

 

There is proof for evolution, and evolution is not a religion as I define it. This is perhaps the grossest oversimplification of the ideology that I've ever heard.

 

Kent Hovind, who's website I linked, has a standing offer of $250,000.00 to anyone who can provide PROOF of evolution. So far no takers...

How do you define religion?

Charlie

 

You're absolutely right! I'm sorry for saying it Speedy.

 

I define religion as a standing body of individuals who share a common belief, have a person or deity as the figurehead of the group, share a common set of morals, ideological beliefs, and religious practices (i.e. Communion or prayer), as set forth by a text explaining the practice of the group in the worship of said person or deity, and carried out by elites among the group who interpret the text and profess that interpretation to the group.

Examples:
Christianity is a religion because the followers of Christianity share the belief that God exists and Christ is the Holy Son of God come to absolve the human population of its sins. God and Christ are the figureheads (or figurehead, depending on the interpretation), and Christians share practices, moral beliefs (i.e. "thou shalt not kill), and ideological beliefs. The text is the Bible, which tells the story of Creation and the subsequent story of Christ up until Judgement Day. The elites carrying out these beliefs and interpreting the Bible are priests, pastors, deacons, bishops, etc.

Evolution is not a religion because there is no figurehead of worship, no text by which believers in the theory carry out moral beliefs, religious practices, etc. Also, there is no "group of Evolutionists" out there, unlike with many institutional religions.

As for this guys standing offer of a quarter million dollars: proof lies in the eyes of the beholder. If old Kentie boy over there doesn't LIKE the proof being offered to him, he will not accept it as proof. Just because no one has won this money does not mean that no one has given him the proof. It only means he was a little too pigheaded to accept it.

~AJ