The burden of student loan debt....

Bingo! Yet another point Mr.Moen seems to not grasp. What else is new?

I agree with you 100% David. Strapping all these kids with 100 grand in student loan debt before they begin a day of work in a career so these colleges can improve their campuses and over-pay their whiny little liberal professors, is going to bite this country in the ass some day. I'd say most kids are so nieve, they have no idea about money at this stage of their life. Or how hard it is to pay back while trying to go on with your life. And yeah, I'd say 18 to 20 year olds in this day and age, are KIDS.

The whole premise of this argument is being missed to this point. I just discussed this with somebody the other day. From what I see, guidance counselors are not doing their job. Parents are not doing their jobs. There is little to no direction or thought process involved with most kids leaving HS. Whatever they dream up is a GREAT idea! No concern for what the job market actually is or will be. No worry about what the pay will be.

Some people should go to college. Some people should explore other avenues. Older people have to work longer. This means less people retiring. We are losing more jobs over-seas. You can't churn out millions of kids out of these colleges, swamped with debt, and expect them to all find a job, year after year. Sure, some will die and retire. But the number of students graduating colleges has to vastly outnumber people retiring. Can't find a job? The answer!? Well, duh! Go back to college for a few more years so you can defer the previous loans!

Ok, this part's for moen. If YOU CAN'T GET A JOB, YOU CAN'T PAY BACK THE STUDENT LOANS. What's the placement rate at your school moen? Do you know or care? Or are you just hoping the free printed money keeps flowing from the government to help keep it going? How many millions of high paying jobs need to be created each year just to absorb all these college graduates?

If they aren't going to get a high paying job, than they may as well not go to college and rack up the debt just because everybody else is doing it. But that seems to be the theme these days. We're good at creating career students saddled with debt. Just not that good at creating jobs to pay it all back. This is going to bite the US in the ass.

 

You guys are so full of it! Nobody forces anyone to take out student loans. If you want to attend any college in this country, you have to pay the tuition. If you want to buy a house in this country, you have to pay a mortgage. If you want to buy a car, chances are you have to pay off a car note. No one forces you to do any of these things. It's your choice. What part of that confuses you numbskulls?
Do you blame the car companies for financing high priced cars at high interest rates too? Do you blame the banks for high interest rates on their home loans? For them it's just business but when you invest in a college education, you can expect to earn a million more in income over your lifetime. Let's see your house or your car do that.
You wouldn't even believe the number of tuition waivers we hand out annually, the number of scholarships we create, and the number of students we help with assistantships and the work study programs we fund because you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.
If you brain farts think higher education is such a lucrative gig, come on over and get a job. Oh wait a minute, we've had a hiring freeze for almost three years due to budget constraints, no raises, and our benefits have been slashed. When I came from a private sector job to this one, my pay was halved and my responsibilities doubled. You guys sit behind a computer and talk out of you behinds like you actually know something. Fortunately, I actually do know something about academia and I can tell you that you both are utterly clueless. My guess is that there were no student loans in your pasts.

 

My violin is playing "My Heart Pumps Purple Piss for You". I do see anything in there that says you were forced to do anything.

 

Right on. When did you go? And did you major in socialism or communism?

 

100 grand? Where are you getting these numbers? And why is it that every college is run by over paid whiney liberals? Is higher education so reprehensible to some of you? And when I was 18 the country the state and the military considered me an adult. When did that age change back to ''kid''?

 

There were student loans in my past. Fortunately they were reasonable, and I only had to pay a portion of them and it still took about 7 years to pay it off! Thankfully, I was able to use it to get a job that required me to go through that though. From what I see, that's rarely the norm. People are blowing all their money (one way or another) to get degrees in physics, psychology, biology, law, and very few will get a job that warranted any of that time or expense.

No, no. Nobody forces anybody to do anything!!! They're just looked down upon and ridiculed for not "making something of themselves" by attending a "suitable, who's who of society" university. Do you agree, or disagree that the pressure is there for EVERY student to go to college no matter what? To me colleges have become too much of a business. One where the costs are soaring, but the staff as you say are "poor" from no raises yet nooooobody knows where all the money goes! Ah well. One of life's mysteries I guess.

Don't give me this non-sense that practically everybody is getting these big breaks to go to school. You have to be a dirt poor minority, and a single mother, from a single mother family before you're considered for most anything. A family with one income making 50k is way too much and can't be considered for any assistance.

BTW, is the focus on college about bragging rights amongst your peers over where you're attending or laser beam intensity on the jobs that will result from attending? I think you know the answer. I hear about a lot of BS. It's a failure at the highschool level.

 

Welcome to 2011 Craig! The average, AVERAGE cost of a private college is 36k a year. A normal public school is around 25k/year for four years. Scott Carter from goldline has two kids in college right now and he said it costs 45k a year, A PIECE for each of them to go! lol. I have a family member who will be going off to college next year at 35k a year. A few scholarships but mainly loans, so they can get out and make 30-40k if they're lucky and actually get a job!

Yeah, it is reprehensible to owe 100k for a diploma without the guarantee of a job anymore. At least with a mortgage there is an asset to sell. These kids have to pay back 100k, plus interest, plus pay a mortgage, plus interest, plus save for retirement and live life. LOL!! You think that's feasible for the majority of them? You better wake up.

 

Thats isnt the average. Its more around 25. And a state college is like 7grand a year. Heck Berkeley is only about 26k. And I didnt say the cost being reprehensible, why do some here find the institute reprehensible ?

 

Did you actually say "Nobody knows where all the money goes"???? Are you kidding? There is a book in our main library open to anyone that walks in off the street that details every single employees salary every year because we are a public institution and it is required by law. Our operating expenses are published annually online by the state. "Nobody knows where the money goes"?

I believe YOU don't know or at least you certainly intentionally keep yourself ignorant but it's not because there is any kind of mystery behind our finances. We are a public institution and like all public institutions we have full disclosure. Again, no matter how many times I say this, you guys are clueless, you just keep talking and proving me right. This is not an argument you can win with what you have to bring to the table. If you hate higher education, fine, but don't speak of things you know nothing of.

 

At this point, I don't think anyone even believes that you work at an academic institution unless you consider clown school higher education. I know how much you hate anecdotal evidence, so here we go. I attended college almost twenty years ago. The tuition was $20K per year. When it came time to figure out how to pay for it, I was never given the option not to take out student loans. I had no idea how the massive debt would impact my life. I spent 10 years paying off $50K in student loans and lived paycheck to paycheck the entire time.

Now we know you are either a janitor or clown at the college which certainly can't be lucrative, but professors make serious bank. Why don't you disclose the average salary for a full professor at your college so we can judge for ourselves?

 

Now I know it's time to go to bed. Apparently the bars have closed on the east coast.

 

Berkeley does not cost $25K

University of California, Berkeley Tuition, Costs and Financial Aid - CollegeData College Profile

 

Predictable that you wouldn't answer!

And casinos don't close, they are open 24 hours, and serve alcohol the entire time.

 

Are we talking only tuition or ACTUAL cost? Lets compare apples to apples.

I don't hate higher education. There is certainly a need for it. The problem is lack of education in other areas. We can all agree that a percentage of the population should be going to college. Where we would disagree is that actual number if we had to come up with one. If there was better education and more thought process went into what kids are doing after highschool, we'd have a more realistic number of people going for 4 year college, 2 year college, or no college at all. There is no desire to do this because it would hurt busin..... I mean, "enrollment" at all these colleges and actually keep money in people's pockets. Money that most don't have anyway. In a sane world, that's the way it would be. Would save millions of people a lot of money and hard times for nothing.

 

Ha. Sorry I meant 35.

 

Let me hone in on this string of misconceptions and I'll try to be kind. Higher education is a choice just like anything else you want in life. Whether people choose to go to a 4-year college, a 2-year associate degree institution like a community college, or they choose to work at McDonald's the rest of their lives isn't a decision made by anyone else but themselves. There is competition among institutions to attract students but these are kids and adults that have made the decision to seek high learning on their own. We don't go out and hold a gun to their heads and make them enroll as you seem to believe. Regardless of the costs, an advanced degree is still the best investment you can make in today's economy.

I always find it ironic when a Right winger complains about the cost of higher education and inevitably assumes that the people that have spent 20 years attaining a PhD are swimming in cash as a result of the ever increasing tuition costs. If that were true, these professors would be getting annual raises of almost 10% a year paralleling the average increase in tuition over the last couple of years. That certainly isn't happening I can assure you. I know many institutions that have had to ask their faculty to take 10% cuts three, four years in a row now. We haven't had raises in years and the state has asked for rescissions the last two plus years. You know what a rescission is? That is where the state takes back money that they have already allocated from the previous year. Imagine budgeting for that little contingency every year.

The reason state schools like this one have to raise tuition is because states that used to fund the institutions at 70-80% years ago with tax dollars now fund the institution at less than 25% and much less at some schools. Why? Because every time a Republican governor or Republican state legislature gets elected, they decrease the states allocation to higher education and Right wingers like you stand up and cheer. Now you get to realize the consequence of your shortsightedness. The consequence is higher tuition since tuition is the bulk of our income. There are expenses that come along with maintaining a large university and its infrastructure aside from personnel costs that don't go away just because the state decides it no longer wants to fund higher education. Since we can’t take back the costs of building upgrades, technology upgrades, and new sidewalks, personnel is asked to take pay cuts. Subsidizing state institutions kept tuition low in the past. Since some of us no longer think higher education should be a priority, the burden falls on those that actually use the institution to further their careers. Now you actually know something.

 

Ummmm, getting back to the original point here.....

Does anyone disagree when I say a student is better off graduating with ZERO student loan debt as opposed to the kid graduating with a load of student loan debt?

 

Ding, ding, ding ding ding!!!! Is the light finally coming on? My wife & I both graduated from 4 year universities without a dime in student loan debt. Additionally, I rec'd my MBA & she her Masters in Education without incurring a dime in student loan debt. Right now my wife is in nursing school..again, no loans...but she receives info from the school on a weekly basis with student loan & aid notices. In fact, my wife's class registration was held up once because she didn't have a student loan application on file (she had to talk to a supervisor because the clerk didn't know how to proceed when my wife told her she didn't need assistance).
Now take my college roommate for instance. He had nearly 100k in student loan debt when he graduated (in 1990 money) and now 20 years later, is still paying the debt off. His girlfriend went to dental school & tallied up over $250k in loans. Her debt was so crushing she couldn't afford to go into practice after graduating. She cut a deal with the Navy and served for 8 years in order to get her student loans wiped out. Neither one of them worked while in school- I know how easy the loans were to obtain & I also know they were "sold" on the idea of financing their education instead of attending a cheaper school. Now, dr moen, I realize you don't care about real examples but these are just a couple of cases involving people close to me. I'm sure, if I polled the office, I could come up with many more examples.

 

Your argument is ludicrous. Because student loans are available IF you need them, they are a bad thing??? You can pay for college anyway you want. Nobody forces you to take out student loans. Nobody forces you to go to an expensive school. Nobody prevents you from having your parents pay for your tuition. Nobody says that you are not allowed to work your way through school. Your argument is so bassackwards that it borders on the absurd.

My wife and I both had student loans that we both spent 10 years paying off with the good jobs we got from having advanced degrees. We have been doing college visits for the last month and a half with my oldest son. We had one yesterday and we have one tomorrow. Paying for college was certainly a concern especially as I have two more kids two and four years behind the first one. So what will we do, what will we do... Oh, we put away three college funds for them right after we finished paying for our college loans and now they will not have to be saddled with student loan debt. That was our solution and it seems that the rest of you are blaming the higher education system for your own shortsightedness.

It is convenient to have someone else to blame for your problems but more often the problem is actually your own fault. When you add in the Right’s distain for funding higher education through tax dollars, it really becomes doubly your fault. But keep blaming higher education for your behavior. I’m sure it’ll make you feel better. You basically screwed your kids and they get to pick your nursing home. Let’s hope they’ve learned from your example mom and dad!

 

See, you can't address the subject intelligently so you create an entirely different one.
Let me go slowly so you can keep up.....I do not, have not & will not ever have a pennies worth of student loan debt therefore your assertion that I am angry over a mistake I've made is rather ridiculous. I worked to pay my tuition & I've saved to make sure my kids won't suffer the burden of student loan debts. So what problem am I bothered with?
YET, BO maintains one of his successes in office has been the make student loans easier to get while, at the same time, recollecting for us how he & Michelle struggled to repay their own debt. The whole thing seems hypocritical & self-serving, dr moen, but understandable since you cannot be objective considering your livelihood depends on wrangling in students.