Screw or be screwed?

Ever wonder what you need to do to get ahead? When you go to work everyday, ever feel the pressure exerted from your fellow workers (especially senior staff and management) to participate in the screwing of others to further your own advancement or they'll screw you? Lehigh...you came to mind as to who to ask as about this. No offense, but I thought you could can give an honest opinion based on perspective.

What to do when "others" stab you in the back? Stab back? One answer is to quit. Another would be to fight fire with fire. What I'm driving at is I have this friend who has a dilemma and has asked me what they should do. Any "honest" approach can be thrown out because the problematic folks involved have proven to be blatently "dishonest". This person has had personal lockers broken into (they have video to prove it), management routinely lies to whomever they deem that they need to at that particular moment, (including the very people they claim to support). These folks are very nasty, cut throat people, but lie right to your face, pretending they're your best pal. Management seems to encourage this sort of game. Where do you go? What do you do? Declare war and try to get them before they get you, so to speak? Favors, surely money, and other personal advantages are clearly given to the ones that will play this game, but of course to keep it "on the lowdown". Is that just corporate America and something they need to get used to or is there a reasonable solution?
I told this person that this is just the way it is today, that honesty, simply doing your job and collecting your paycheck has no place in today's business world. I say you always gotta do something to try and screw the other guy, in fact it's been proven to me personally repeatedly. But this person wants to win the moral war, somehow rising above it to defeat it some way.
Sorry for being kinda vague but I have reason to do so.
What say you? (this will be part of a Fox polling statistics presentation).
Lehigh? Can't wait to hear your take.

 

Tom,

I can't say I am flattered that you thought of me first, but I will say that I have experience in dealing with the type of people you are talking about. You may think I am even one of them, but I am not. I have advanced from an entry level Front Desk clerk (while in college) into middle management in a casino. What I have learned over the years is that most people in the work force don't have the education, skills, and competence to simply let their job performance speak for itself. Most of these people know this and they resort to other tactics to increase their own job security.

The most common tactic is to become a brown noser. These are the people who kiss managements backside in the hopes that management will protect them because they are loyal. It is very effective and not terribly damaging to other workers. Another method is to intentionally make your coworkers look bad in order to hide your own incompetence. This tactic only works for a short time unless the worker is doing it at the instruction of a member of management. It sounds like your friend may be up against one or more of these people.

I feel compelled to ask what you friend's goal is? It sounds like he works in a very hostile work environment. Is this something he wants to continue to do. If not, the only advice I can give is to find another job. In order to give advice if he wants to fight, I would need details about the type of company, his job description, and management structure of the company.

BTW Tom, let me tell you a story. I was passed over for a big promotion a few years ago. The company hired a man who used to be a Vice President at a competing casino in Atlantic City. The majority of the non executive level workforce thought I was going to get the job. I was not upset because the man they hired was more qualified than I was. Last month on his way into work, he had a massive stroke and died. Since that time, literally hundreds of employees have come to ask me when I will be coming to take over his job duties. This time the workforce doesn't just think I should get the job, they expect it. I know that I will not get the job. If the President wanted me in that job, he wouldn't have waited a month to put me their. I let my job performance speak the last time and have done the same this time. Perhaps now that you know that this type of thing happens to the evil management republicans like myself, maybe you will cut me a little slack and see me more as a human being rather than criminal in training.

 

Incredibly accurate assessment I must say. Kinda scary actually. I'd say all of the above in a combination that seems to be successful. I think they've concluded that getting out of the hostility is the best answer, but I think they're looking for a bit of retribution before they getted stabbed again the final time. They also have a very idealogic spouse that thinks good always wins in the end contributing to their problem. That and decent paying jobs are at an all time low.

Details...let's see. Large company. Remote management that has a very "hands off" policy. Internal management contains one incredibly manipulative, micro managing control freak, who insists of complete submission as to "their way" of doing things, and will lie, use or abuse anyone that lets them do so, without guilt, or even a conscience. It's possible (but not likely) that their actions are so automatic, they may not even realize some of their own tramplings. The company they work for supports a major retail power through information technology that is severely understaffed, by design, only interested in the bottom line and then, a bigger bottom line, aand not much else. Stripping meat from worn down bone is what they're all about under the guise of "team work" (you know..the Walmart team rally model that the corps use to extract all they can while they think they're motivating you to enjoy it). There are several "personal" long term alliances between co-workers and possibly management. The management one I haven't yet figured out other than they're a cut throat interested in their own personal agenda. These alliances are very strange.The one between co-workers is elementary in figuring out. The other is almost like the co-worker has some threat held over management's head. The ones I am referring to get away with almost anything (quite literally), generally getting whatever they want while my friend is called out for the smallest of details and is under constant scrutiny. Been this way for awhile. The friend has tried going over the micro manager's head, but remote management is "hands off". Meanwhile..all the "allianced" folks do their best to "screw" my friend. Really quite a soap opera but these are some very sneaky, nasty folks and they need to step carefully.
Bottom line is they (the worker) want everything to somehow "work out" as they like the field they are in, but are up against these folks and their tactics daily. They would like to give them a double dose of their own medicine, but can't upset their own applecart by openly opposing them as everything they do is in stealth. They also don't like the idea of being forced out by this cut throat mentality, and have to leave a job that COULD have great potential.
(My friend is generally quite reserved, not a trouble maker, and will go with the flow, but has a get mad, get even tempermant when crossed). C'mon man. Someone has to have some counter strategy?! Why should they have to endure the hardships that will accompany the "screwers" successful objectives.

On a different note...I've always suspected you were human Lehigh. Just a bit short on compassion and an open agenda. I really would like some ideas from you. Do they go further up the corporate chain or battle at street level?

 

Sounds like he needs to look into a new job or career path even if it means less money and less 'things'. It is possible to do. I left an offer of about $25k more annual pay on the table to do what I wanted to do, live where I wanted to live and be happy instead of the alternative.

And believe me, 25k in salary for me is not like giving up 25k in salary for the President or Congress (or some other rich folks) would be. For me, it was a higher percentage of income.

It can be a difficult path and a big adjustment and can take a while but once you stop caring what other people have and decide what is important for you and yours, it is much easier.

Or he can stay and continue the status quo. Whatever floats his boat.

 

Yeah I agree. Diplomacy should be the first move, and then more diplomacy, but, these folks, unfortunately for my friend, ain't interested in diplomacy. They want his a**. This dude is a pretty "live and let live" kinda guy, but gettin' stomped on gets old. I'm almost positive all have been given instruction to make it as difficult for him as they can. (unofficially, of course...wink, wink) The status quo works, so long as he is able to steer relatively clear of these other folks, but it is very stressful. I feel bad for him. These folks have all kind of little tricks, and if they guy says anything, the management will side with their "alliances" anyway, so no point in that. You'd have to see the pics/video to believe it.

 

Here's a novel idea...why not find another job? Look for one you enjoy, where you'll be treated with respect. Why be miserable? Believe it or not, there are many people who enjoy their work & the people they work for.

 

Yes...yes..they're called managers...yes we know that you enjoy your part time work at the dollar store, being in charge of ordering the projected 'no frills' napkin supply for the week.. but some folks just aren't as fortunate as yourself nor possess that particular set of skills required to demand an annual single digit salary that you do, so ease up..Okay?

 

Huh? How old are you anyway? This has to be the single most moronic post (and there have been a lot since you joined) I have read here. Perhaps you should rekindle some of your conspiracy theories instead of trying to discuss grown up subjects such as politics and the economy. If you go away quietly we won't tell mommy that you are playing of the computer unsupervised.

 

Newsflash Soupy..."single most moronic" is a category that I'm pretty sure you'd be amongst the top two contenders. "Favorite poster" is another category
though in which you wouldn't fare as highly. I think I hear the "special" bus waiting for you son.

 

Kind of interesting here to me as I can see points on both sides. I don't agree with either of you totally and I take this from experience.

I spent many years in "retail" as a manager. Now I'm back into retail but not as a manager. Sometimes my boss (the owner) can be a total moron but I live with it because I actually DO like what I do. Only because I now retail coins.

That aside let me dig into this a bit more. First you David (sorry). Changing jobs and finding one you "enjoy" is not that easy. Other people want that job as well now don't they? There aren't enough available jobs to fill what people want basically.

Now Tom.
"...yes they're called managers...". Gotta tell you this I managed quite a few places in my life. Cant say I really enjoyed it all that much. I did it because it was the ONLY way I could make a decent wage. You get thet crap from above you while having to deal with those below you. Those below you just want to make a living. Those above you want more, and yes, they will screw people to accomplish it in various ways.
This is why I never got into middle management or higher. I have a tendency to speak my mind instead of kissing butt. Having worked my way in one company from driver to store manager I got a good look at how it works. The higher up you get the more lies you tell and the more you use your people.

Conversely, there are many on the "lower echelons" that were not worth keeping on. I never enjoyed firing anyone but it had to be done at times. On the other hand something else really irritated me.
Those that were "outstanding" employees could only be given a certain amount as a raise for their efforts.

THIS is where I think a lot of companies really screw up. Not EVERYONE is capable of managing a store. As a manager I utilized my "assets" and a good cashier could be one of them.

A great cashier is by no means management material. However, a great cashier that balances, can make orders, keep track of stock etc. is a great asset and that person deserves more. A corporation that will not allow them more screws themselves and then wonders why.


Now folks, let's take this a bit further. If you're paying a great cashier (etc.) a paltry wage while others that aren't nearly as good as this person are making the same what does that get you?
An asset to your business leaving in many cases.

Point? No matter what the level a person is at if they are working and doing so honestly and doing a good job they deserve more. These people don't ask for all that much really. This is just an example of how corporate America is killing itself.

 

Good points Clembo.

One question I would ask is how to function as a "team" when you know management isn't going to straight with you? How can one be sincere when you know damn well management isn't ? Or can't? I don't think one can be any more sincere than is the leaders that spew the blatant disregard garbage to begin with? Your cashier scenario describes perfectly one of my points...that the folks above aren't interested in "good" employees. That's one big reason why retail has scanners, PC's to do everything but put it in the bag for them. They ain't interested relying on someone. They are interested in relying only on the machine (as they view it). Labor is just an inconvenient stumbling block. Trust me...as soon as they can figure out a way to eliminate the labor..they'll do it..trust me, strictly out of greed, plain and simple. That's also a very big reason why our society as a whole, is in major trouble. Think of how many things are gone that used to be a staple in our society....before the corporate Walmart mentality was born. Retirement?? Medical?? Five years or less, both will be all but extinct, and it stands to reason....not profitable enough to warrant the expense. Hell we'll already there really. Drones...lemmings...are all corporate want. The PC will do the rest. Folks have to fight so hard that they WILL stab anybody in the back they have to, more so now than it ever has been. This whole unity, team crap is nothing more than bad advertising comprised of fear tactics equaling MORE profits. I personally look forward to the day
the backstabbers are themselves stabbed by the very folks that have been feeding them all that nonsense. Lehigh...you nailed that one.
Simple premise...if profit is all the goal is (and face it...it IS the only goal), then all you really require from me is that I do my job in exchange for the money you begrudgingly release to me. That's all society amounts to any more. Profit, exploit, profit more, and we should all be thankful we get to be included in the raping and pilfering.
All hail corporate management. All hail the liars. All hail MORE PROFIT. There is no such thing as "enough" (except maybe in labor costs).

 

Tom,

Why is performing your job duties with pride and sincerity predicated on management proving their commitment to the labor force. You claim that the problem with our society is corporate greed. I think you are missing that the corporate greed has existed as long as owners have existed. Those at the top always have and always will take the first piece of the pie. If you think you are ever going to change that, you need to find a nice communist country to move to. It is a fundamental of capitalism.

The problem as I see it is a complete and total lack of pride in our society. The hunger to be the best is gone and has been replaced by incessant whining and expectations that are not accompanied by hard work. You can disagree, that is your right. But let me tell you what I see. Every summer, Polish students flock to the United States. They have no job opportunities in Poland, NONE! When they come here, they work 80+ hours a week. All they want to do is work as much as they can to earn as much money as they can. The American students want to work 20 hours a week, have weekends off and work until no later than 8PM.

I do what I can to instill pride in my employees but some act as if the idea is completely foreign to them. The best way to be successful in life is to set the expectations that you have for yourself so high that nobody in a position of power above you could ever be disappointed. A good example of this philosophy was Michael Jordan. He was the most talented guy on the court when he entered the NBA and was going to be a hall of famer no matter what he did. That wasn't good enough for Jordan, he combined the most talent with the greatest work ethic and became the greatest basketball player of all time.

Imagine if every valet attendant that works for me strived to be the best valet in the world. How good would my Valet department be? Now imagine if every person in every job in the casino displayed that same work ethic. I promise that nobody would be complaining. Not the employees, not the management, not the owners, and certainly not the customers because they would be the beneficiaries of the best customer service in any casino in the world. The casino, it's owners, management, and labor force would all benefit from the droves of customers flocking to donate their money every day. It would be a wonderful place to work. Instead, I have shop stewards making excuses why employees who don't actually start working until 2 hours after they clocked in should keep their jobs.

Success comes from within. At the very heart of the issue are qualities that make up a persons character. I believe that the downfall of this country began with the idiot who proclaimed "winning isn't everything it is how you play the game" Only a loser would utter those words. "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." I guess Lombardi understood capitalism. This country is like a team that has won the Superbowl and just expects to win every year without having to repeat the effort needed to win the first time. It really is quite sad to personally witness the collapse of a great country right before your eyes. However, I will not be a party to it. I will perform my job duties to the best of my ability despite the injustices cast upon me my the upper management. I will never give them the satisfaction to say they beat me, EVER!

 

Hey if I gotta go....I'm takin' a few of the lying scum with me.

 

I still don't understand why tomc thinks anyone owes him anything? I don't recall the right to a cushy job and a benevolent boss being in the Constitution- or did I miss it somewhere?

 

Nobdy owes anybody anything...either side of the employee/relationship. Those napkins come in yet?

 

Who or what is "nobdy"?

 

Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop!


Warning Will Robinson the spelling police are here. Nobdy is the leader and he spelled this for a thread heading.

"Obama: Lowest Apprival Numbers Ever!"

What's an Apprival Number?

 

Hey whats all this? How come that **** isnt going ape over this spelling crap now? Tell us another bedtime story. The other one left me so rested.

 

And what name did you just call me hours before Christmas. I guess that post you made few days ago was just a smoke screen to hide your true character. In case you forgot, this is what you wrote:

And if David starts posting spelling and grammar corrections across multiple threads like you did, I will go ape.

 

Happy Holidays guys (or not) but it just shows you how stupid this place can be and, yes, I was part of it on this thread. Post number 17.