Renewable Energy Commercialization

We invest so many billions of tax dollars in dirty energy by subsidizing big oil companies that monopolize the energy market even as gas prices continue to climb unabated while our investment in green energy barely scratches the surface. We are kept addicted to a product that is not only outdated technology it causes countless health problems and is not so slowly killing our planet. The climate change deniers are funded by the same people making huge profits from keeping us dependent on their product while better alternatives exist. We don't have an energy crisis but we have one in the making if we don't change our focus to renewable energy sources. It's an environmental imperative, a national security imperative, and a human health imperative. Beside, green energy has the potential to be the next entrepreneurial boom that could propel this country into the 21st century as the reining economic leader. Where is the downside?

 

After all that, you're still driving your car?

 

It's a hybrid. I did test drive a Chevy Volt this weekend though. That just might get me completely off of gasoline commuting to work. Screw the oil companies.

 

Hybrid shmybrid. You're still using petroleum. Also, electricity isn't necessarily "clean" energy. Where do you think the energy comes from to produce it?

I don't know how far your daily commute is, but have you thought about walking? Biking (recumbent bikes are nice for lengthy commutes)? Skateboarding? Rollerskating? Snow-sledding? Getting a horse and buggy? Anything but dirtying our atmosphere and feeding those damned oil companies or coal-burning factories!

 

The volt pollutes more that a Hummer. Look at where they mine for the batteries!

 

Actually no! I have a neighbor that uses a solar panel to charge a battery that he then uses to charge his Volt from. The Volt can use gas but only after the first 38 miles. I don't drive anywhere near 38 miles a day.

I do walk and ride a bike because I have made the choice to not commute across heaven and earth like so many people do. However, a car is necessary for me just like anyone else sometimes.

But the real question had nothing to do with me. I wanted to know the downside of renewable energy. My specific situation is irrelevant as is yours.

What exactly do you guys base your negative attitude towards renewable energy on? We have to start somewhere don't we? Why is seeing the glass half empty so important to you guys? Really makes no sense at all.

 

Not if you actually know the facts.


Some have argued that mining metals for batteries is worse than drilling for oil.
But calculations show that, overall, the batteries use fewer natural resources.

A team of Swiss researchers has released conclusive data showing that the environmental impact of an electric vehicle is much less than previously thought.

As any EV advocate will tell you that electric vehicles are extremely green when fueled from renewable energy such as solar or wind power. And even those fueled from non-clean power sources, such as gas, oil and coal are less polluting than gasoline cars.


But EVs have a sinful side that cannot be ignored. Batteries.

Some of the most vocal anti-EV spokespersons say that mining the minerals and metals used in electric car batteries is much more damaging to the planet than drilling for the oil that fuels gasoline cars.

Thankfully, it turns out they are wrong. According to a study from the Swiss-based EMPA institute, which focuses on material sciences and technology development, li-ion batteries for electric vehicles are greener than expected.

The team, lead by Dominic Notter, calculated the ecological footprints of electric cars fitted with li-ion batteries, taking into account many factors all the way from its production through its operation to its disposal, and then compared that information with that of gasoline cars. Overall, EVs use fewer natural resources.

For example, when they compared electric cars similar in size and performance to the 2010 VW Golf, the researchers discovered that only 15 percent of the total environmental impact of building the car could be attributed to the battery pack. Of that, only 2.3 percent came from mining and processing raw lithium.

Other materials used in lithium-ion batteries such as copper and aluminum, attributed 7.5 percent of the environmental burden.

But don’t think for one second that the researchers were giving EV batteries an easy time.

The researchers note that batteries have to be recharged, and if the electricity is sourced nuclear, coal-fired and hydroelectric power stations -- a standard electricity generation mix in Europe -- a battery used for 100,000 miles produces three times as much pollution as that from manufacturing.

Using power exclusively from coal-fired stations worsens the impact of an EV by more than 13 percent.

But if the electricity comes from a renewable energy source such as hydroelectric, the number improves by no less than 40 percent.

The takeaway message being that sources of electricity need to be renewable.

The researchers concluded that to be more environmentally friendly than an EV a gasoline car would need to have a fuel efficiency of more than 59 miles per U.S. gallon.

The message from Switzerland is clear. Even when fueled by dirty sources, EVs with lithium-ion batteries have less environmental impact than their gasoline-powered counterparts.

Charge from a renewable source, and gasoline cars simply cannot compete.

 

I'm not against renewable energy whatsoever. I'm happy to hear your friend is using a solar panel to charge his Volt. If this were only the case for every Volt driver. But, his specific situation is as irrelevant as yours and mine, right?

Unfortunately, not everyone has the luxury of driving less than 38 miles a day. Plus, I hope your friend didn't take any government subsidization toward the purchase of his Volt especially if he feels that the government shouldn't subsidize energy companies.

 

I have other friends that live in LA. They spent $50,000 to put solar panels on their home. Will they ever recoup the cost by saving $100 a month on their electric bill and selling a small amount of energy back to the electric company? Not in their lifetime. But they and many others make the choice to do something about our dependency on dirty energy rather than sitting back and disparaging renewable energy for God only knows what reasons. I respect them for that and every person like them that is a far better American than those that simply keep doing what they've always done and complain about high gas prices. The number one method of bringing down gas prices is conservation. We don't need new wells, new pipelines, or more drilling on federal lands, we need alternatives to the dirty oil industry that is killing our planet.

 

The driving range of electric cars is more than enough for me. No way I could afford any new car though. We're down to one again, with the beat-up older one I use down again (happens every Fall). We have four drivers and half a dozen jobs, and that isn't enough to repair it, not with heating oil expenses to save for.

 

Little Joe is thinking of buying a new car. Perhaps he'll give you his old one. Just sayin'.

 

How generous of you to offer.

 

It would be more generous of YOU to offer.

 

I'm guessing a Socialist douche is trying to give away things that don't belong to it.

 

That would be Obama you're talking about. I was just thinking Little Joe could help a fellow liberal in his time of need.

 

Some things are dirtier than others but I'll say this.

Fracking scares me.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/13058-why-are-cows-tails-dropping-off

 

That....was disturbing...even to me.

But it (the consequences of pollution) is something I've been concerned about since I was very young.

Fracking raised a lot of alarms to me for it's potential release of hazardous compounds into the surface environment. From the moment I learned of what fracking was, I've kept an eye out for just this type of evidence. Erin Brockovich is a primer in the dangers in volatile compounds in the environment, specifically when humans unknowingly come into contact with them. The dangers are real.

I was watching people discuss the Global Climate change thing and rolled my eyes as they went on and on. It's not that I don't believe it's true, ...I know it's true..., what I was rolling my eyes for was the debate itself.

I'm being a bit indifferent here but, whether true or not isn't an issue for me. The World is getting warmer and I don't believe we can reverse it, not if we want a modern society. Even then, if we immediately stopped using modern machinery, power plants, etc and reverted to hands-on local farming, it would be several lifetimes before the World could possibly return to 18th century temperatures. I say "possibly", because it may or may not...in terms of a couple centuries...it could take a millennium or more.

The focus, IMO, should be on real environmental damage caused by pollution, and not the vague calculations of scientists, but it's politically expedient to promote alternate energy, and it receives massive amounts of attention, and that will help the environment we live in, so I understand it's necessity.

The air we breath is important, every one should agree. Air pollution is easily viewable in cities. It's real. All manner of poisonous particles are spewed into the air, and we breath it all the time, all of us, to one degree or another. Smoking is bad? LOL, try breathing a paper factory's air! We lived in Green Bay for a while but had to move...it was too much for my mom's lungs.

Air polltion adds to land and water pollution, both of which have their own specific issue. With land pollution, it's similar to this fracking thing. The water pollution is the worst, IMO. We dump nuclear waste directly into the ocean. Really, we do. Laws allow for it. (claps hands) Well done, well done! You do realize we need that water to be safe for living organizisms, right? No? (shakes head)

OK, I guess I'll stop ranting for a moment and get back to fracking. I expected these types of stories to appear, but not this soon. That means the problem is more severe than I anticipated, and that scares the hell out of me too.

 

As soon as I see someone trying to tell me methane, butane and propane are associated with cancer, I refuse to read the rest of his propaganda because that is all it is. Cows tails dropping off due to an increase in methane? How interesting. One of the largest sources of methane on earth would be cow's farts - seriously. So now you have to make a new cow that does not fart so he can keep his tail? They have been doing that since forever.

 

You know I've been in your neck of the woods IQ.

Green Bay is nothing.

When we leave the UP we notice the smell as we head closer to the Chicago area. That and drivers (people in general) are much more rude.

Maybe it's in the air?