Polytheistic Atheist vs. Monotheistic Atheist

This will hopefully develop into an interesting discussion on the belief of one of more than one God not existing. Can one exist while others do not or do thay all not exist?

Can one, two, or more Gods exist in the 'Polytheistic Athsist' belief's while another does not? For example the God of Love Marriage and the Home (Frigga) along with the God of the Sea (Poseiden) might be worshiped while the belief in the God of War (Mars) is nil. On the other hand the 'Monotheistic Atheist' believes in only one Supreme God not existing. This one Supreme Non Existance might control all the activity which goes on around them, or allow it to spin out of control as the case might be.

You don't have to be an Athiest, Agnostic, Christian, or whatever to offer your views. Please chime in...


Ben

 

There is but one God & it has many aspects I supose in reality you could say He/She/it has multiple personalities and they are worshiped in a multitude of ways :thumb:

 

Oh, I quite agree, but still the beliefs of the worlds people are indeed varying and at times mysterious...:thumb:

 

I think polytheistic atheism is just a normal part of polytheism. Plenty of Hindu sects don't give a hoot about certain minor AND major deities in their pantheon. I imagine the same would've held true to some extent for at least some groups of people who were Norse/Greek/Roman/&c.

 

You either believe in the divine, you admit you dont know, or you dont believe in the divine...in my humble opinion, there is no need to further define it...polytheists are just people who have multiple gods...they are still just like a monotheist in essence as they place belief in the divine unseen and in my opinion, the unknowable.

 

My god try saying Define the Divine quickly half a dozen times LOL

 

Although I do like the topic, you all know how I feel about it already. If you've ever read Richard Dawkins, "The God Dellusion" it pretty much sums up my beliefs. If you haven't read his works, I'd just be wasting my time trying to explain it as succinctly as he does.

 

I'd hate to live in a world of Christopher Hitchens'. But he provides a window on one potential outcome. Without the belief that our fellow man is made in the image of God and deserves respect because of it, we would end up with an entire society of nasty, uncaring folks capable of just about any sort of indecent treatment of their fellow man -- in other words, hoards of Hitchens. The world, as it is, can be harsh. Take away what little kindness there is and you get a glimpse of life without God [aka, Hell]. I know people will come back with all sorts of reasons why this won't necessarily happen, but history has shown that people attracted to positions of power are capable of extreme selfishness and evil if not restrained by a recognition of the existence of God.

 

We have had this discussion, of course I disagree with you...and find it frightening that all that is keeping you from doing all sorts of evil deeds is a thin vail of belief in an unseen diety...

 

Well, it isn't thin. It's a core belief. What frightens me are people like Christopher Hitchens who openly admits he doesn't care what happens to anyone except himself and feels no sympathy for anyone suffering. So what we have is a belief in something good and decent vs a belief in nothing except the selfish use of others for personal gain. Fortunately, Hitchens isn't in a position of power, but he makes a good example of where atheism leads because he is willing to be perfectly honest about his total lack of concern for anything that happens to others. To him, they carry no more weight than insects.

It's chilling to listen to the man and view the hatred for others in his eyes.

 

just like I would not typify all believers as being like the frightening (but honest) godhatesfags people, I wouldn't make the mistake of lumping all non-believers with one who has never developed apathy for his fellow human beings in the absence of belief of a higher power....I guess its true that some people really do need god to give them what others have developed without it...empathy and morals. Its a mistake to think simply because you need god to give you a reason not to harm your fellow human beings and to keep you in line that we all need such a thing...you shouldn't project that weakness onto others...

"As to the gods, I have no means of knowing either that they exist or do not exist." Protagoras

"A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side." Aristotle

 

If one accepts the existence of a God and that God is all loving, caring, wise, omnipotent, yada yada, then one would have to believe that you are a better person for your faith in that Diety. You would have to believe that you share a special bond with other believers and that non-believers couldn't possibly share in your unique insights and devinely inspired attributes. The "relationship" as it is often called, to God is almost always portrayed as apart, specail, and unique for the believer but unattainable, beyond the understanding, or just plain not possible for the nonbeliever. If your special relationship with this Devine entity makes you better suited to the job of political leader then you must also believe that someone without that special relationship isn't as well suited for the job of political leader. Cloudy has said as much.

What if one day a bunch of aliens showed up on our doorstep and we filled them in on our belief in a Supreme being and they said that they had never heard of anything so ridiculous and stupid in all the galaxy and that we must be a planet of complete rubes? They eventually climb aboard their ships holding their sides laughing at the effort and time we have wasted over our entire existence believing in something as silly as a supreme being. Proof positive that we developed without the help of any type of invisible friend.

O.K. maybe this is just a bit hypothetical but in the event this really happened, what would you have to say about the people that don't give a fly speck about their fellow men? Would their attitude just be part of human nature not attributable to either a belief in or no belief in God? Isn't it possible that the indifference towards others was developed long before any religious belief and has nothing to do with a lack of belief in a God? Aren't there people that are indifferent to their fellow men AND believers in God? It seems to me that you are taking a very narrow view of nontheists for no other reason than to reinforce your own belief structure and is that any basis for a logical decision?

 

Moen, as you have said, your examples and questions are very very hypothetical, even to the point of assuming aliens would be atheists. Of course you can find someone who professes a belief in God but doesn't live their faith when it comes to their dealings with others. Of course you can find atheists who live decent lives by choice. But atheism really provides no basis for reality or even a concept of right and wrong, and that is what concerns me. It leaves it up to chance. So while I have no problem with the American concept of a secular/religiously neutral government, I also fear the possibility of actually being govered by atheists. Modern history demonstrates that this fear is well-founded. I'm not trying to reinforce my own belief structure. It doesn't need reinforcement. I don't happen to be an evangelical Christian, and I don't count the worth of my faith on how many people I convert.

 

Does God or God's exist LOL well to be honest you have a 50/50 chance of being proved right or wrong whichever way you look at it Now do we look at God(s) as been Soft and Cuddly Wuddly or as Hard & Unforgiving, assuming that they do exist. Also what's wrong with having an Imaginary pal if it keeps you happy LOL But please remember NOT TO LISTEN TO THE VOICES :whistle:

 

funny you should mention hitler:

"I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Almighty Creator. By fighting the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work." — Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

but again, you are wrong that atheist have no basis to judge right or wrong, they just draw that basis from other sources other than religion...

while a christian can do as he pleases (and usually does) and after he has hurt everyone and everything around him...he can just ask for forgiveness and it is granted if he is sincere...and if he truly believes in god..I am sure it will be sincere ...even murderers go to heaven dont you know.

Certainly you are right that there have been awful atheist...but you must realize that some of the most horrible things have also been done in the name of god or gods...

As a person who does not believe in god, I think I have a better set of morals that guide me then many religious people. I have never killed, raped, molested nor do I commit crimes even when I could easily get away with them...because I have a strong set of morals and I dont need a god to know these things are wrong...just a deep understanding of the inherent rights of man, society, and empathy.

Although I think it is supreme folly to use a professed belief in god as a measure of a man and his ability to lead...to each his own I say.


"The virtue of justice consists in moderation, as regulated by wisdom."
Aristotle

"The ultimate value of life depends upon awareness and the power of contemplation rather than upon mere survival."
Aristotle

"The energy of the mind is the essence of life. "
Aristotle

 

Why do I have this strange sense of Deja Vu... Never mind just musing.

Anyway, The point of using aliens in a hypothetical example was to demonstrate that it is just as easy to believe in nontheist aliens as it believe in some never seen, never heard, never proven deity. In fact, many would argue that there is significantly more proof of aliens. If you can believe in something like God, why is it a stretch to believe in other-worldly beings? If life does exist elsewhere, then the bible is completely made up because it teaches that all life was created here and everything else is just for our benefit. Science eventually catches up with all superstitions and phony beliefs. That is why science and religion have been at odds for so long. Science, without specific intent, undermines the superstitions that are the foundation of religious dogma. Religion on the other hand, is one backpedal after another followed by rationalizations. An intelligent person can only accept the false premise for so long.

But back to your original arguement that, "...Atheism really provides no basis for reality or even a concept of right and wrong, and that is what concerns me." While not believing in something doesn't in itself provide a basis for right and wrong many Atheists tend toward secular philosophies such as Humanism and Naturalism which do provide a basis for right and wrong in their respective philosophies. The way you see Atheism is as one might see a competing religious belief but Atheism is just a core belief that sets the individual apart from those that have theism as part of their core belief. What I'm saying is that Atheism isn't a set of beliefs that you take and live your life by, it is just a division that differentiates you from theists. Atheism isn't an end but the beginning of a different set of beliefs without the concept of some invisible deity. And why would you assume that Naturalists or Humanists are incapable of having a basis for right and wrong unless you had the ulterior motive of reinforcing your own belief system?

 

Hitler wrote his book long before attaining power. During the time of his atrocities, he was deeply into the occult, and hardly a practicing Christian. You seem to have to rely on cases of insanity to support atheism and/or denegrate belief in God. And while atheists can choose to lead a moral life, they have no basis for necessarily believing that this choice is any better or worse than any other. So I will continue to assert that it is better to be governed by a religiously moral person than by an atheist -- and you will do the opposite. Aristotle believed that happiness was the ultimate good that should be pursued [my interpretation, or recollection from school]. One can only imagine how his views and recommendations would have been influenced had he been exposed to Christianity.

 

The first beliefs in a Super/Huper/Other Natural beings began in the misty past and is closely tied to the study of Paleoanthropology. For sure as there are flint arrowheads and pottery shards there are also mysterious portrayals (cave paintings) of mystic beings who look vaguely similar to those who painted/carved them.

The Venus figures of the European Pleistocene to the Anasiz Rock Art of the American Southwest. They all have one thing in common it seems. They all are worshiped for prosperity or fertility. The wonder of just where the ideas come from can only be speculated...