There was a thread over at US coins titled "WHAT IN THE WORLD WAS THE MINT THINKING" http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=19948 in which the subject of politics and coin design came up. An administrator told us to take it over here. Basically, the idea is that coins are now, and have always been, advertising for the issuing authority. The consise language of coins, including imagery and very concise text, portrays the power and majesty of that authority is whatever way they see fit. Greek coins honored their gods, Roman coins deified their rulers. The message received over and over by common people was whatever the rulers wished it to be. When the United States was founded, the 1792 law authorizing congress to issue coinage specifically stated that all US coinage SHALL HAVE upon the obverse side an "impression emblemmatic of liberty". (See http://landru.i-link-2.net/monques/coinageact.html Section 10 for a full text of the law) It was therefore the consensus opinion of the "founding fathers" to make a symbolic as well as a political break with the monarchial traditions of Europe. George Washington himself argued strongly that no president of the United States should ever be placed in imagery upon a US coin! And that law and tradition was upheld for 117 years, all the way up to 1909 when Theodore Roosevelt took it upon himself to authorize the issuance of the Lincoln Cent in honor of the 100th birthday of Abraham Lincoln. Now it could be argued that, because of his centrality in abolishing the institution of slavery in the United States, Abraham Lincoln's image IS in fact, emblemmatic of Liberty. But I think that Teddy Roosevelt opened a door to the use of presidential images that has been to the detriment of the design, beauty, and political power of our coinage. The original law placed our cherished PRINCIPLES upon our coinage for all to see. Now we have PEOPLE on our coins, with all the baggage that those people carry... submerging our principles in the personality cult of hero-worship. I think it's time to completely review and revamp the designs of US circulating coinage. Get all the presidents OFF the coins and go back to the classic allegorical figures of liberty. For my money (pun intended) I would choose the Ron Landis design http://home.earthlink.net/~smalldollars/dollar/2000ml.html submitted to the mint (but not chosen) as an alternative to the Sacagewea or presidential series dollars. Once we've got that presidential series out of our system, I'd like to see something like this. It's a gorgeous design!
Tom that is a lovely looking coin and it is one I would happily add to my collection but I would say that I think the Presidential coins are a good idea I say this from a collectors point of view and with the hope that it might bring more young people into the hobby, it would be something different to look forwards to every year. De Orc
Money Yes I can see that the Presidential series could be good for coin collecting in a similar way to the effect of the state quarters, since there will be a bunch of different designs to collect. So it may be good for our hobby, but is it good for our money? There are two purposes of money. One is of course to provide a medium of exchange for the purpose of encouraging commercial and private transactions. The second is to portray symbolically those principles which we, as a nation, wish to promote. In the first case, money itself is under attack. While coins started out as a form of metallic barter goods, the political forces of history over the last couple thousand have stripped almost all our money (except for pennies and nickels!!) of instrinsic value. Most people actually believe that these strips of printed paper ARE actually money! The dollar is no longer backed by anything... it is a fiat currency. Even worse, the forces of electronic currency have taken away even that thin fantasy of paper money. Commercials on television are now encouraging the use of credit cards even for small purchases of under one dollar, and implying that anyone still actually using cash is not only a dinosaur, but is causing problems to the smooth functioning of the economy. If cash money is to remain a facet of our lives in the future... it may need to be completely re-invented. Secondly, when we portray leaders on our coin and currency we hold those leaders up for all the world to see as those individuals whom we honor and cherish. It is no secret to the world that we honor President Andrew Jackson with the central place on our $20 bill... arguably the most heavily used bill in circulation. He may have won the Battle of New Orleans, but he also betrayed the trust of the Cherokee people in a most perfidious way, stealing their lands and property and forcing them upon the "Trail of Tears" by his Indian Removal Act. Whatever else he did, this one thing places him squarely in the hall of shame for all history. By honoring him we are telling people all over the world that such we support and honor the callous treatment of minorities, the ethnic cleansing of indigenous peoples, and the stripping of property rights whenever somebody has something we want. Images MEAN something, even more in traditional cultures than in our post-modernist realm. The Arab world in particular looks at the images we portray, and then at our recent actions in that region... and must perforce conclude that we are merely following our proclaimed principles of subjugation by force and theft of resources.... we've done it before and all you have to do is look at our money to see that we honor the leaders who did those things. Even if those are indeed our values (which I submit they are not) we are fools to allow our currency... our single and most vaunted form of national advertising... to portray such values to the rest of the world. I don't think any presidential images should appear on coins... but I shudder at the very idea of Richard Nixon's image appearing on the face of a US coin. That is simply absurd! To reinvent our currency and save it from becoming a mere curiosity as electronic funds take over, we would need to revamp the entire form and function. Firstly and most obviously, the cent needs to go. Tradition aside... most other countries have already done this and that would leave room in the cash register for the dollar coin. Secondly, the paper dollar needs to go... only then will the dollar coin gain legitimacy. Thirdly, the two dollar bill should be the smallest paper money, and with the elimination of the dollar bill there will be room for it in the cash registers. Fourthly, we need to reinstate the five-hundred-dollar bill so that people who need to make large cash transactions can do so. Fifthly, we need to be able to de-monetize older currency as almost every other country has done, in order to control the money supply and help control counterfeiting. Finally, the designs on all these denominations need to reflect our REAL shared core values... those values of liberty, justice, and reason upon which this country was founded.
Personally, I would like to see the text of the Declaration of Independence (especially paragraph 2) on the notes instead of humans. We celebrate America's Birthday every July 4th but we celebrate the war aspects instead of the concepts our nation was founded upon. Hell, I bet not one in ten people you asked on the street could tell you what words are in the Declaration - let alone what those words mean. I bet 9 of those 10 would tell you Washington became president on July 4th, 1776. I agree with Tom - the currency of the realm is inherently political. But I also believe that its intended to celebrate the government as opposed to the nation. I agree with Tom (again) allegoricals would shift the context back towards the nation instead of diefying politicians. (side note tom, I will never have a nixon in my pocket and after reading what you said about andyjack, I don't want him in my pocket either as he clearly believed some men were created more equal than others.)
Nice coin Tom ; That would be a nice change. I do not like state quarters, just to many. Presidents, well some people just do not like a personage for one reason or another. We have commerated to almost every event. Next set will be " Your City ". High quality art on a coin is always appreciated, or some nostagalic figures in our past. We live in a poulation that knows less of this countries history, and has more assetts then any time in the past. I have a friend who is a peridontist doing some work on a tooth around December 7th. We were talking and I said my father in law was there for the last meeting on the islands. He said most young people do not even know what happenened that day. He called in a surgical assistant and asked her very nicely " Maria" do you know what happened on December 7th 1941. She said no, we never studied that in school. He told her and she said she had heard something to that effect on the radio.
Tahlequah Museum If you ever get a chance to visit Tahlequah Oklahoma (seat of the Cherokee tribal government) be sure to stop by the Trail of Tears Museum. If you still think that Andrew Jackson is a hero, you will be surprised to see and read the real history of the Cherokee tribe and the role that Andy played in their history. If you only read the standard approved history books you may not realize that they were among the first of the Indian nations to Christianize and assimilate into white culture. The problem for whites was that the Cherokees owned most of the best farmland in the southeast, and newcomer white settlers were pretty miffed about a bunch o' damn injuns holding all the best land, not to mention the discovery of gold on Cherokee land. Eve though the Cherokees came to his aid in the Creek uprising, Ol' Andy Jack decided to play to his "base" and instituted the Indian Removal Act of 1830 as a racist ethnic cleansing campaign and an outright theft of life and property. If you visit the museum in Tahlequah you will see a small nicely lettered sign on the cash register that says something very close to "We politely decline to accept $20 bills in this store". All over eastern Oklahoma $20 bills are seldom seen. Millions of people in this country have Cherokee ancestry and know full well the perfidy of this president... yet still he is honored on our currency. And that's just one example... I won't even get into the slaughter of women and children at Wounded Knee, or the biological warfare against Indians using smallpox conducted by the US government. No apologies were ever given for any of these actions, and the officials in charge are still honored. Hugh Thompson is still sneered at by many military people, posthumously, for stopping the My Lai Massacre, and Sgt. Joseph Darby, who refused to stay quiet about the abuses at Abu Ghraib, has to hide under a fake name for telling the truth about what the US government is STILL doing! By not acknowledging these events properly, we encourage their repetition. Can a nation long endure that does not admit and atone for its mistakes? Can we really be as blind as that? And images on coin and currency are very very much a part of our collective consciousness.
Money then Power Recorded history is five or six thousand years. During that time there have about three hundred years that one group was not taking the land of another by force somewhere in the world. As I get older I wonder if money and power are right at the front, and under very few circustances the human need is considered. We consider the ability to produce products at a staggering rate ( productivity) a priority second to none. When you scan the shrinkage at Federal and State levels , one wonders if this whole scheme is by Ponzi . our recent discoveries of shale oil , leases in the gulf and coal to use to make synthetic fuels will give us all the oil products we will need for a long time. To run the middle east out their only resource is working. We buy at prices until the people scream and then all is well after oil drops to an area where inflation slows down and the middle class might come back a bit. Point Thompson in Alaska has been scoped and ready for more then ten years. It is near Anwar and is a large deposit. We do not have oil but we have a real idea of where it is. Our technology is way ahead of anyone who is second.Put our oil down around thirty five a barrel and OPEC would be standing in line to tell you where all the " Bad Boys" are residing. The game continues. Why take a staff to go after third party graders , they do not have any real money to make the take a worthwhile one. Like Doug, if you have the knowledge , sell your service it is almost all profit. You can see the most exotic coins in a museum , or on the web. These are my thoughts and I speak for no others.
I like the grand tradition of putting portraits on coins...It is one of my favorite things about coins, the portrait. From Ancient Greece to Rome to the coins of today, who and what nations put on their coins says a lot about what concepts and what types of people they admire. To me the father of our nation and old abe are perfect examples. Nobody is perfect without doubt but these men are iconic figures in our history and I believe honoring them on our coinage is a good thing. To me American coins must ALWAYS have one concept on them...no matter what they must ALWAYS put forth the concept of Liberty. To me that is what America stands for. Abe's portrait does not do this...the word 'Liberty' to me is all important...I like E Pluribus Unum as well, I think that puts forth another grand concept of America and before 'in god we trust' it was our national motto and the concept is all important to a nation made up of many states but putting forth itself as one nation. It represents what I feel is a strong union that, I hope, will never again break. I cannot even concieve that the US would ever find itself at war with itself again...we discussed this on another forum...that however bad things get, in the end, rule of law is followed...the military never takes it upon itself to take power like in so many other weaker unions or when one party is in power the other doesnt try to overthrow. We are truly many living as one...and IMO the worst thing one could do would be to break this union. One of the main things I enjoy about coin collecting is the portrait and looking up and writing the histories of the people found on coins through history and around the world. You can tell a lot about a nation by who they put on their coins. I say this not to argue, or to say that ALL coin should have a president or a portrait of a great American...but to say that I do not see the problem with it. Good or bad these are some of the people that helped build this nation...you dont have to like everything about them for this NOT to be true...I dont think putting them on a coin exalts them or puts forth that these people are 'untouchable' but instead lets all those who, like me, look into who is on the coin...who it is that we feel deserves this honor for what they did and why... As I do Bio's for coins I find all kinds... Indonesia with Diponegoro, Haiti with Charlemagne Péralte, Milton Margai in Sierra Leone, Venezuela with Simon Bolivar...These men mean something to the history of these nations and to read their bios, you understand why they are on the coin... Maybe its because my main emphasis is ancient coins and so many of them have portraits...but its different...no longer is it a ruling monarch or emperor but someone that, undeniably in most cases, had great influence in our nation...instead of just slapping whoever is in power at the time, we have the time to sit back and decide who and why we put them on...though I like the idea of presidential dollars, I like more the idea of only putting on those who went far above and beyond like Abe, George, and Thomas.... I would like to see MLK on a coin... anyway...I like the idea of not having a mug on all coins, thats fine by me, but I see and understand why we put portraits on coins...and I think those nations that put real thought into who goes on the coin and not just putting the leader of the day on it have the right idea...not to mention I just like portraits on coins and I like doing biographies of those people and using the coin to illustrate that biography It is what my website is dedicated to. http://www.tribalsoup.com/cache/index.htm P.S. I agree about Jackson, after reading a bio of him, I find him not to be the type of man that deserves such honor, not just because of his treatment of the indians but because of his almost totalitarian, antagonistic approach to his administration, I just feel he did not fully represent what makes the US great though one cannot deny he was not without his accomplishments. Though I tend to think that most of the people on our coins are there for good reason and are not objectionable to most americans. How could one object to old abe on a coin?!?
Also, simply because in the beginning we did things one way doesnt mean things dont change...Take 'In God We Trust' for example. Some people would object to that being on money but certain parts of society thought God had to be on the money, not only did it eventually end up on all of our money but it ended up replacing our national motto in the 50's. Now I am not one of those people who rail against it, I dont care all that much but I did like our previous national motto better 'e pluribus unum' in my opinion is much more all inclusive, something most americans who love this union can get behind...congress even passed laws that requires it to be used now...so things change...and you cant please everyone.
