OK, Time is up

I admit it was fun messing with you guys. Posting pure bullcrap and making up siglines and acting like a general moron is alot easier than trying to make serious comments. I decided to act like alot of you !!!!

See how it reads when you act like morons here?

Back to normal now. I'll fix my quotes after work today lol. And yes, I really am foreman of a prototype aerospace shop

 

Well that was an entertaining diversion but you can answer my question in the other thread now since you are going to be serious.

 

Sure.
I work in an aerospace shop in Phoenix. We do mostly research and development for Honeywell. Most of it is military.
I went to trade school in Detroit and gained my 1st journeymans card from the UAW as a toolmaker, then some community college in metrology and calibration, CNC programming etc etc. Company paid for my classes but I have no degree.
When I moved to Los Angeles, I worked as a toolmaker at Panavision in the special effects machine shop. I attended a job fair and I got a better job at RocketDyne in Canoga Park...the SSME plant. Space Shuttle Main Engine. Got another journeymans card there ( labor grade 17...the top ) Left there due to a failed drug test in 88 and persued my carrer as a guitar player until 92 or so, which damn near killed me.
Moved to Phoenix and have done aerospace since. I machine the parts, but know nothing of the science.
I self taught myself MasterCam and CadCam...( computer aided design and manufacturing ).

 

For the record, I never doubted that you worked in the jet engine industry, only that you didn't have a design job that required knowldege of metallurgy and related subjects. Guess I was right! You have on several occasions told me to take my blinders off regarding the 9/11 conspiracy theory. You believe the conspiracy but don't have the requisite understanding of the science (metallurgy) to decide who is actually telling the truth.

The entire crux of the conspiracy theory rests on the supposition that the fires inside the towers were not hot enough to melt steel. A basic understanding of the thermodynamics and metallurgy is all that is needed debunk the theory. Melting temperatures are completely irrelevant. At a much lower temperature (annealing temperature) steel will lose it's strength and become more ductile. The fires were above this temperature and given enough time, catastrophic failure was inevitable.

People like Tom are too far gone. I implore you not to listen to the sensationalistic propaganda thrown your way by these people. They are deceivers and basically the same as cult members. I have no allegiance to the government, the official story, or any other label that the nutjob truthers throw my way. That is another trick that conspiracy theorists use. They cast the government as an evil empire and accuse anyone who disagrees with their theory of being an agent of evil for the government. My allegiance is to common sense. Now use your own common sense and run as fast as you can away from cult.

 

It actually gets even weirder than that. The building was actually constructed to withstand both the temperatures of that fire and burning jet fuel. All of the support beams were insulated with fire retardant insulation. I believe that they had a 4 hour rating for such fires. However, what they missed (or better did not anticipate in the future) was that the planes were so big that they literally scraped the insulation off the beams when they crashed into the buildings. Without the insulation, the beams could not withstand the heat of the jet fuel.

 

What would my allegiance be to? I'm certainly not trying to deceive anybody. Your simplistic characterization of whether or not steel melted or not, is your supposition. Nanothermate added to the scenario makes it even more irrelevant. In order to represent the "official" side of the story (and I do mean story), you, and folks like you, repeatedly resort to snide remarks, ridicule and belittling as part of your argument. You selectively use some parts of what was or wasn't a fact, create the fallacy and then paint the conclusion too. The entire crux of 9/11 doesn't reside on the steel in the WTC's, as you would like to have everyone conclude. Perhaps that's where the uninformed or the misinformed to focus...I don't know but, there are many, MANY other "problems" when deconstructing the "official" story. I actually can't think of any one of the more popular "truthers" indicating or representing that
the steel in the WTC's actually melted. I know that many argue that the steel was chemically altered to facilitate the destruction of the steel at key stress points in the structures.
You've predetermined the conclusion, and you arrange certain aspects of the scenario to suit it. One only need look honestly at the practically infinite number of "problem" areas with the "story" to discover, and rather quickly, that it can't possibly be as they claim that it was.
The "only the educated specific to metallurgy" can understand why what did or didn't happen is ridiculous and simply BS.

 

Your ignorance of science comes through again. Please explain how you chemically alter steel?

Keep complaining about BS, it is really what you need (Bachelor of Science).

 

The entire truther conspiracy fantasy is based on supposition after supposition.

 

You haven't desconstructed any part of the 9/11 scenario. All you have done is fall victim to the house of cards built by the truther cult leaders. You are wasting your life with these ridiculous conspiracy theories. I feel sorry for you and your ilk.

 

Perhaps painting on some nanothermate? Maybe you're the one that needs to educate yourself on thermate/thermite and nano technology?

Yes, yes, yes...you're so smart. I'm not. You told me before.

Oh..hey smart guy...perhaps you might answer a quick question for my dumb ass. Do you subscribe to the "official" mindset that Flight 93 was buried underground 40 or 50 feet, and that it was 95% recovered? I need some guidance from one oh so smart. Thanks in advance.

 

Suppositions like confiscated photos of the Pentagon? Suppositions like Hanji the magic pilot (that couldn't fly) circled the Pentagon before dive bombing it (a feat that many commercial and military pilots say that they probably couldn't do), and then crashed and went poof? Suppositions like WTC7 collapsing straight down (one that no plane hit), at 5 in the afternoon?

My intent here isn't to rehash the same old, same old, but, "supposition after supposition" infers certain things. I'm trying to nail down some sort of particulars that you try to cover with a very broad brush.
I know you're smarter than me, so please try and forgive my stupidity for asking. Thanks again in advance.

 

What's to deconstruct? There's no part of the "official" scenario that makes any sense in the first place.
The "cult" huh? Interesting choice of words. You needn't feel sorry for me or my ilk. We'll both be just fine.

 

Well I do believe that you can alter the basic Chemical composition of steel by heating it up now I have heard of something called allotropy that can cause alloys that will not normaly disolve to become soluble with heat and pressure and I do believe that Steel is a alloy
Now I am no scientist but I do know that exploding aircraft fuel will not only cause heat but it will also create a shock wave (preasure wave)

 

Let me sum it up this way.

Rather than go the criminal court way, requiring " beyond a reason of doubt " I think like a civil court, needing only a preponderance of the evidence. There are hundreds, if not thousands of little coincedinces that just would have to be ignored for you to believe the government line.

I have seen enough to believe that this was not an accident that just happened. I dont know the truth and never will, but this took some planning and coverup.

 

Heating steel does not change the chemical composition of the metal. All steel is comprised of iron and carbon and other alloys can be made by adding other metals such as nickel, chromium, manganese, titanium, vanadium etc. The heating of steel (annealing) changes the microstructure of the metal thereby changing the mechanical properties. The allotropy of steel is temperature dependent. Alpha, beta, delta iron have a body centered cubic (BCC) crystal structure while gamma iron has a face centered cubic (FCC) crystal structure.

Furthermore, not all alloys are allotropic. And being allotropic has no effect on chemical composition. Pure Carbon is allotropic. It can appear as either diamond or graphite, but both are still pure carbon. The allotropy of iron exist in the transition of the metal from BCC to FCC, but the metal composition is unchanged.

Is that explanation sufficient or should I break out phase diagrams?

 

Lehigh is proficient in metal... rock on lol

 

Lehigh 1st I never said all alloys were allotropy, 2nd it would be a way that the steel in the tower collapsed (Which is what you say happend) 3rd if steel is heated the chemical composition actual does change take a pice of steel heat it and you get a thin flaky oxide coating on the surface, (Try it in a forge if you dont believe me) this is a change in the chemical composition of the steel and yes the mechanical properties will also change depending on the temprature
So before you get on your high horse with the sarcatic comments in future you might want to actualy read what is written and understand when someone is supporting your basic premis or is that to much for you to comprehend? I can draw diagrams for you if you wnat?

 

It you only knew how funny you comments are to those who know what is going on. You so obviously do not know what you are talking about. And you are try to tell Lehigh to get off his "high horse?

 

OMG you are ridiculous. First, the formation of an oxide layer on the surface is corrosion and happens even at room temperature, it is typically called rust. The oxide layer results in a loss of metal but does not change the underlying chemical composition of the corroding metal.

Second, this is your statement:

The way that reads leads the reader to believe that because steel is an alloy it is allotropic (not allotropy). If that is not what you meant, you should have explained yourself better.

It is your contention that you can change the chemical composition of steel by heating it. Please tell us what the chemical composition would be of a piece of A36 steel before and after being heat treated. And if you need to use diagrams, please explain what they mean when you use them.

 

Have you ever googled "nanothermite". Every single result is posted by either the truthers or their debunkers. Even if this stuff does exist, there is no way they would have enough of it to paint the interior beams of a building the size of the WTC towers. Your hypothesis that they accomplished this work in two weekends is beyond absurd. Professional demolitions experts have stated that they would need 6 months of uninterrupted access to buildings of this size to rig them for demolition, yet you want us to believe that a group of government mercenaries completed a clandestine operation to rig the building with an experimental substance in 4 days. No mention of where they obtained this amount of nanothemite, how they transported into NYC, or how they paid for it.

Now lets assume that incredibly stupid nanothermite sabotage theory took place. This substance is not triggered in the way that a conventional demolition is triggered. The heat from the fires would have set off the nanothermite on the floors of the plane crash. So tell us how this substance remained non-reactive for over an hour while the building burned?

I will answer any question you have about Flight 93 after you tell what happened to all of the passengers who boarded that plane that day.