OK Then.... I Will Bring It Up.

Well, that is your classic "yeah but". Originally you said that Iran wasn't abiding by the Iran agreement as justification for the Trump Adminstration's assassination of a high ranking Iranian General. Now you say is was because of a brazen attack on what you call an unarmed embassy. Hardly the truth since this sprawling compound is more akin to an enormous military base in the heart of Baghdad than some tiny foreign embassy office. Sorry Dude, you're grasping at straws trying to justify the actions of a moron that has no plan, no method, no sanity to his actions. Apparently the lie of an imminent attack being foiled by this assassination spread by the highest levels of this Adminstration has also collapsed. This was a stupid escalation that could yet go terribly wrong in so many ways. I thank the Iranians for showing restraint in their response to this out of control nuclear armed mad man at the helm of this country. We could be involved in WWIII right now if not for cooler heads on the other side. This moron we have in the White House has to go.

 

Joe... I appreciate you. My original post had nothing to do with justification. My original post was born of the shock I experienced the night that Iran lobbed missiles our direction. When I arrived home late and got the news programs on, what I was hearing were newscasters speaking almost reverently toward Iran with little mention of the potential danger that American citizens may have been in at that moment in time. The discussion about justification ensued and I participated in that discussion. And yes, my slant on that discussion is born of the patriotic pride I earned during my years in service. I readily admit I am a skewed, flag waving, apple pie eating patriot at heart. That will never change about me and it does taint my views.

 

All of that is fine, but don't let it blind you to reality at the same time. I love my country as much as any flag waving apple pie eating patriot ever did but I never see it as a competition either. I take pride in my country when it stands for the values I respect and I take umbrage with my country when it is on the wrong side of history. That is the only type of patriot I will ever be. Blind patriotism certainly exists but history is full of blind patriots that have brought other country's to ruin. I think you are person that wants what is best for this country. Make sure that you actually know what is best and not merely what is the party line.

 

The protest at the US embassy was not the justification cited by the administration for killing of Soleimani. If it were, we might discuss whether that protest was sufficient reason to bring the nation to the brink of war. That discussion is moot, because it's not what Trump claimed as the justification for the killing.

Now it appears that the killing of Soleimani was an option that the Trump administration prepared for itself over half a year ago, if the death of any US citizen could be traced to Soleimani. Very well, but again, that is not the reason given by the administration for the killing. It's becoming more and more apparent that Trump was lying to the American people when he claimed Soleimani's involvement in an imminent attack was the reason and justification for the killing.

Some people may be complacent when the president lies to them about something as important as bringing the country within short steps of a war that could result in the death of thousands of Americans, coming up with excuse after excuse to paper over the fact that they've been lied to. I have trouble understanding that mindset.

 

In answer to your original question... Maybe we have just become too accustomed to the lies and manipulations that governments blatantly tell us and expect us to believe. They always invoke nationalism while telling these lies in order to make us feel as if not believing the lies is "unpatriotic". We have gotten wiser, well some of us, and they have gotten better at telling the lies at the same time. The best course for all of us is to have a free and fair press and to do our own research to get to the truth. It is more work to do this and many are either too busy or just not interested in anything other than the spoon-fed lies they want to believe. Dividing us against each other only benefits the liars. We're not stupid but sometimes we act like we are. We used to believe in our leaders. We used to believe in science. We used to believe in our country. Now we believe the person/people that tell us what they think we want to hear. The country is being successfully dumbed down.

 

I concede this. Simply because I am a slave to my work and my new baby girl, I no longer have the luxury of consuming current affairs as I would like. And yes I often rely on what I hear in passing or even what I believe must be the case. However, I will point out that in years past when I did have the time to keep up more closely with our nations leaders, I can confidently say that lying from the pulpit of the presidency is not a new phenomenon reserved to our current commander in chief.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Somehow over the course of the last decade or so, the free press has simply become an extension of the news organizations preferred political wing. This one thing more than any other has divided our nation one against the other.

Truer words were never spoken. In my years in the Army I was trained to dutifully follow the orders of those in charge without question or discretion. And there is a measure of honor that lies in that concept. If we have no belief in what our parents, teachers, bosses and elected leaders tell us, then we are headed toward chaos. However as reasoning and educated people, we must be fair enough with ourselves to know what is right and what is wrong regardless of what those in charge tell us.

And that to me is the entire genesis of this current chasm that exists in our nation. If we do not like the man, we still are obligated to respect his title and office. Mr. Trump does not receive that from half of the nation, our news organizations or the branches of government. I did not care for Mr. Clinton's lies, however I supported him because he spearheaded a strong economy. I very much did not care for Mr. Obama's lies on health care and insurance. To this day his lies cost me a great deal of money. However I never publicly made my displeasure in the man a point of vocal contention. I simply made my displeasure known at the ballot box. And this is how it should be. By polluting young minds with this poison of divisiveness we are only creating deeper problems for future generations.

 

I have always heard from my conservative friends and those conservatives in this and other forums that they hate, hate, hate, hate lies. I used to think that they genuinely hated the lies told only on one side but were completely willing to excuse the lies of their own side. I have always maintained that I don't want to be lied to by either side. I thought it was strange that some lies are OK while other lies are "lies for our own good" or some such nonsense.

Along comes Trump and the man that could run a master's class in the art of lying is the head of all those conservatives all of the sudden. Trump lies about something he said an hour ago, on tape, in a room full of people, with a stenographer in the room, with a straight face, and those same conservatives that hate, hate, hate lies are absolutely silent about being lies to by their own guy.

I stopped caring if conservatives say that they hate lies. They don't. They hate lies that don't benefit them personally. That isn't the same as hating lies as the blanket statement suggests. It's like saying that you hate dairy but love ice cream on a hot day. You don't hate dairy, you hate some kinds of dairy until it gets hot outside, and then you head straight for the dairy.

When people tell me that this political party lies or the other side lies or they all lie, what they really mean is that the only lies that matter are the ones that don't serve their own interests.

Some interesting facts about the ACA are that health insurance costs have been increasing for decades. They are increasing more slowly under the new health care law but now the health care law gets all of the blame. Isn't that America for you? The savings would have been far greater if Republicans hadn't jumped to the defense of the insurance companies and fought some of the provisions and are still fighting those provisions today. For the first time since the passage of the ACA, we are starting to see increases in uninsured rates thanks to Republican efforts. Republicans continue to try and eliminate pre-existing condition requirements and other protections. At the same time, they have never come out with a plan of their own because they have none. They never will.

 

I must be an oddball. My mother was a single mom that worked her kazoo off to provide for me. As a very young man I was caught in a web of lies to her and the tears she wept burned me so deeply that I could never again lay my head on a pillow at night knowing I had lied to somebody. It's just not part of my DNA. And I expect a measure of that when I am given information. I have been gullible on several occasions because of it. No, I do not accept a lie from either leader of either party. Affiliation has no bearing on it.... But that's a subject for a different thread.

The only reason I am so viscerally opposed to government intrusion into our nations health care is because I experienced the blow fist hand the year after the law came into effect. Yes, like all costs health care increases every year. But the first year the ACA was enacted my little company experienced a near devastating blow to our health insurance costs directly correlated to the enactment of the ACA. I am a believer in free market correction. Always will be. I do firmly believe the free market is much better at correcting consumer costs than government intervention is.