Obama's new plan

That's what I meant by the Military accomplishments. It won't happen until an Iraqi, Muslim based Military takes control of the security. That's why we need to give them goals of when they need to meet these accomplishments or lose funding in the government. Kind of like how the Federal Government tells states that they need to make the max speed limit at such and such or lose funding for roads. It's their choice but there are consequences of non -compliance.

 

My problem with that, is that reversed, would never be acceptable to us no matter what. It's not a state getting highway funds or else, we're talking about.. it's foreign invaders.. just try to imagine one kicking in your door. Angry little guy from China, telling you what to do at the barrel of a gun. Non - compliance is the only option I'd see.... One mans insurgent is another mans hero. It depends on the eyes, I think. Hard for me to imagine that type of horror, let alone understand what it would be like in reality and how I'd feel..

I think I'd be pissed off..

 

I understand what you are saying, but it seems very unethical and unreasonable to illegally invade a country, destroy its infrastructure, kill thousands of people, and then demand that they comply with your deadlines or else face the consequence of reduced or no financial aid.

Your military (Australia is planning to pull out) should be getting busy training a new Iraqi military (as they are) - but the onus of responsibility should be on American shoulders to help set up a national security structure that's stable, and if any deadline isn't met, then the flagellation should be purely self-inflicted.

Reneging on financial aid shouldn't be on the cards at all.

 

Well said.. an apology wouldn't hurt either.

 

I understand that. I'm sure we would feel the same if a Muslim State took over the US. If that Muslim state let us establish our own government, then we would be less likely to combat against them anymore.

What I'm saying that if the Muslim extremists see a legitimate Muslim, Iraqi government taking control, and a Muslim based army taking over security, the extremists would lose their drive to get the infidels out of Muslim land.

 

Any government we "approve" will be looked at suspiciously I'm afraid..

 

I'm saying they need to quit relying on the US, and work towards the rebuilding support we always give to new, legitimate governments. Ask Japan or Germany how much they are hurting after the US rebuilt them.

 

I'm not to keen on the federal Reserve. I would need to do some homework. But it dose seem pretty crazy to keep making money that we can't back up. Thats killing the dollar. But Ron Paul has his head in the sand. He thinks everything can be fixed by just minding our own business. It's not that simple. We deal with world trade. We deal with alias that watch our back as we watch theirs. In this shrinking world our neighbors good and bad are closer. Yes we need to protect our boarders. But we can't put a wall up and hope nobody jumps it. We need to go where the enemy is at. Not waiting for them to breach the wall. You put blinders on and you don't see what's on the sides of the road that can come out and bite you in the ass. We need to protect our alias and we need to be involved with world events. Our founding for fathers didn't expect us to pay half our income to the government but they didn't anticipate the world as it is today. To keep going back 200 years and saying "see they didn't do it this way" is ludicrous.

 

I don't think he's an isolationist Snaf.. just doesn't buy into the might = right theory.

 

Unfortunately these people have an impractical long term memory. They still hold the Crusades against the US. That was over 400 years ago. We can't overcome that. We can only do what we can.

Establishing a Muslim based government and military is the best we can do at this point, and try to overcome that bias.

 

He thinks we should pull out of Korea and Germany. What do you think would happen if we were to just pull out of Korea? I think its in our best interest to keep S Korea an alias and be as close to N Korea as we can.

 

All I can imagine is two guys in another country talking about you and I and our country like that and it gives me the willies...

 

Appears that war has been raging on for 60 years now.. Korea. Time to come home..

 

And in this nuclear day and age might dose= right.

 

Good point.

Pardon me, you were sounding kind of harsh in your last post, and I guess I misconstrued your meaning.

Is there an alternative to the Federal Reserve?

Maybe Ron Paul's reasoning behind minding your own business is regarding all the historical coups and assassinations in South America (and the like), and all the other foreign involvement that's OTT and really isn't necessary.

As for trade, Ron Paul would have to be retarded to cut trading ties with other countries, but when you seriously consider the idea - America is so fertile, and so industrious, that you are one of the few countries that could be self sufficient.

 

We'll all pay the bill on that one.. Humans have been struggling against it since the dawn of time. Since the first man clubbed another and saw the fear in the onlookers and what could be done with it.. Some things never change.

 

The thing is that right now, our relationship with North Korea is getting better and if we just leave South Korea on their own until completely accepting each other as an individual state, we have failed.

If anything, even though it took this long, Korea should be our guide on what can happen if we persevere.

They are coming around, and talking with one another. Germany did the same when we let them establish their own government, why wouldn't Iraq be the same? We just need to find the right motivation for change and acceptance.

 

I agree. you have to realize that most of the involvement of the US with coups in South America were in an attempt to stop communism from establishing a foothold in the western hemisphere. That was cold war stuff and even if it was wrong, and loosely base on the Monroe Doctrine of European influence in the western hemisphere, but mostly on the fear of communism.

It's a clod war mentality that is really non-existent now.

This is where the whole "isolationist" talk about Ron Paul comes from. This is some of the unrealistic banter that makes him sound so crazy, comes from. We are slowly moving toward a world economy, if not a world government and no country can any longer be self sufficient without trade.

 

If you really want small government Ron Paul is the only choice out there.

Ron Paul on free trade:

Ron Paul, What is Free Trade? | Ron Paul Library

The rich got screwed by Bush too. THERE WAS A CEILING ON THE SIZE OF THE CHECK YOU GOT BACK.

Libertarians, as Paul is, are not isolationists they favor true free trade.

Paul is a strong believer in limited government. You cannot have limited government and be the world's policeman. You did not see Canada attacked on 9/11.

 

Ron Paul is a great member of congress, his radical possitions are a balancing point against the radicals on the other end of the spectrum, but he is not someone who should be president.

He believes in free trade, but he does not believe there is ever a reason good enough to use military force, or even influence matters with trade, etc..., outside the borders of this country.

While I can see where backing off a few things and letting the UN do things without us for awile could possibly wake a few people up, I do not believe there would be much woeld trade if suddenly every bully nation around the world knew that America would "never" try to take action to stop them from doing anything they want.

America being here and the world knowing were willing to jump into any fight is a deterrant against bullies. The relative peace we have around the world is because of America's willingness to get involved. When Iraq invaded Kuait, we stepped in to take action, without America, Iraq would have gotten away with it and then another bully Nation would have done the same, over and over.


Consider the success of the 6 party talks with North Korea, without these actions, there would be hostilities, and as hostilities spread, industry turns to war needed products, not trade prodicts. The Countries and homes need their money to live and support troops, not spend it on extras and extravances.


Trade ships become fair game during wars, either boarded and taken over or just simply sunk. Countries like Iran can follow through with their threat to remove the Jews from their land, nobody to stop them right? Russia has been flexing their muscles lately, nothing like a promise to ignore the world from America to wake that giant up from it's slumber.



On the whole, I can find a few of Ron Pauls ideas I like, the UN is useless and he wants to remove them from our soil and never be involved with them anymore. He wants a basic tax system like the flat tax, he wants to put us back on the gold standard, he has lots of good ideas, but hos bad ideas are too radical to be given any real consideration.


I look at it this way, when there are more Americans that still believe that Bush planned 9/11 than who support Ron Paul for President, it is difficult to take him seriuously.