O.K. what is your oppinion of the situation and where do you draw the line? Was this a legal operation under the conditions that existed, or was it simply a matter of abuse of authority by the administration? Did the leak to the New York Times paper amout to treason, or was it just 'whistle-blowing'. Who do you think was responsible for the 'leak', and will the Justice Dept. throw the book at them for this act.:secret:
New York Times are the heros on this one. I can't wait until they examine the names of those who were violated (I am pretty sure that the DNC will be on the top of the list).
Well, this is a new year and I'm going to start off by agreeing with you Danr. I would have put the DNC somewhere on the list, but as contributors to the act of 'treason', and divulging secrets to the enemy in a time of war. Yah, the New York Times were heros...who admit checking with the administration and then sitting on this story for a year before giving it life. Right now someone should be very worried about who the Justice Dept is going to find in this position. It could mean a long, very long jail term.
I am inclined to agree with 70 percent of the American public that believes that G.W. Bush is just doing his job. Also, I doubt that the DNC is directly involved, rather it is probably the work of ****y little upper-level bureaucrats and reporters that are more interested in dangerous gossip and petty careers than the well-being of the nation and western world. It must be difficult for G.W. Bush and company to fight-off a committed, fanatical, and clandestine enemy while at the same time having to contend with the concerted efforts of a domestic fifth-column. In WWII, I am pretty sure that these latest disclosures (leaks) would have been viewed, and acted upon, as treason. IMO, it is not over yet. I suspect that some of those involved in the disclosures, who probably consider themselves to be intellectually superior and perhaps even cute, will ultimately do some serious jail time. This was not amusing. The Justice department will pursue these matters. I asked a friend with some experience in these matters what he thought about the leaks. He replied that the intelligence community may have condoned the "leaks" for effect. I would have to assume that it would be discomforting indeed to be snatched off the street in Beirut or Berlin, then quietly and quickly transported to a secret third-world location, knowing full-well that you might never be seen or heard of again. Has anyone actually seen Osama lately?
By on that list I mean that W was illegally listening in on the DNC for political reasons. I would be surprised if many of those who were violated were terrorists. He used illegal wiretapping to listen in on political enemies. Thank God for the patriots over at the New York Times they are protecting our freedom from the evil Bush administration (this administration are the biggest threat to American freedom and liberty that we have ever seen).
Danr you have done it again I'm afraid, you simply don't know what your talking about. Patriots at the New York Times! I thought everyone knew that the Patriots were from Boston. Thus the name "New England Patriots", now think about it Danr. Doesn't that sound familiar to you this time of the year. Think real hard, for a while. Yes I know it probably makes your head hurt, but it's for your own good.
Boy, Danr you sure fooled me! I just killed the cat and was looking for the dog when I came back to read this one more time. You saved the dogs life so that is one good deed for you in 2006. Have a good day and a better one tomorrow.
Look, it comes down this way. We all want to be safe and if that means that our government is listening to a few bad guys’ overseas conversations then I think that we can all sleep a little better at night. We are dealing with an enemy that uses our open society a weapon against us. It is important to remember that as often as this current conflict is compared to yesterday's wars, it is entirely different. We have to rethink our entire way of life in almost the same way people during WWII had to rethink their resource consumption, what they said, and who they could trust. A national dialog on the subject should have begun shortly after 9/11 and should still be going on today. If the American people were willing to give up some amount of privacy for the sake of safety, then our leaders in Washington would have had the blessing of the country to gather all of the information they felt necessary in order to fight this war. Instead, we are arguing among ourselves after a media revelation and administration rationalization. This neither helps us fight this war nor brings us together as a nation united against a common enemy. If America is going to stay strong and be a leader of the free world, we have to be smarter than this example has exposed us to be. If we lose this war, it won't be because we weren't capable of winning it, it'll be because we failed to use the one gift that we as Americans have in abundance...Our unique ability to overcome our differences and pull together as a united force. We can't hope to do that if our administration is cutting its own people out of the picture and forcing us to learn of breaches of trust through public forums such as the New York Times. The openness of our political institutions is both a curse and a blessing that we have come to expect as Americans. They can do us harm if we let them or they can be used as a tool to strengthen our society to meet the challenges we will undoubtedly be face with in the future. It's hard to change old habits but if we fail to rise above our old ways of thinking, we may just be learning something else new...Arabic. I don't know about you, but I have never been very good at new languages.
You are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Just imagine IF Bush, or any president for that matter, DID NOT use any of these methods to defend or thwart the next attack on this country, the left would have screamed "impeachment" because the president failed to uphold his oath when he was swore into office. So now the Boxers, Polosi's, Reid's and Schumers of the world really, in my opinion, don't care what is best for this country, they just are anti-Bush in everything. If that means leaking intelligence to how we treat terrorist prisoners in Cuba so that it makes the president look bad, they don't care. Even if Bush nominated Martin Luther King himself to the supreme court, Schumer would be out protesting and catering to the far left that vote him in. Why? I believe that the left (which has moved further left than at anytime in the history of this country) is trying to do everything to regain the power they lost which started in 1994 when republicans captured the house. They don't care what it costs in both intelligence casualties, money redistributed through class warfare, or even the moral of our troops. They just want to be in control like the "good 'ole days". When you are anti-this and anti-that with really no vision for this country, nothing comes good from this. I have criticized the president on everything from his spending to no border control. I have no problem calling him out. The question is, do people on the left have the will to call out the Deans, Polosi's and Schumers of the world when they are soooooo wrong??
I don't think the mainstream media is properly reporting this issue. When CIA, NSAor Senate leaks are discussed, they treat it like it is merely of political significance. They appear to be thinking. "We got you now Bush! Deal with this." The security implications are largely ignored. This, however, is a very serious case. I have not seen any informative links. Be advised, that when prosecutors build criminal cases, they are usually very quiet, which is not in their basic nature. So I expect the secret "Rendition" issue to explode in the media in about 60 days. Somebody will go down in this one.
That type of logic is good enough reason why child welfare should be called to rescue your children from your ignorance.
Thanks Moen appreciated:thumb: I will say this again until your politicians stop playing party politics and realise that this is a real struggle then the US is doomed to defeat itself, they managed it quite well with Vietnam and are heading down the same road now. I fully support the war on Terror as it is called but did not and still do not support the Invasion of Iraq (Should have happened in the 1st Gulf War) Phone taps are essential and why should they not be used :smile De Orc :smile
I am a big Tony Blair fan as he has the guts to take on his critics with steadfast resolve. He also told the muslim population that it is time for you to assimilate into the country and if you encourage radical islam, you should be deported! How refreshing it is to see a politician call out the enemy and those scum living in one's country! As for the first Gulf War, it was the U.N. that DID NOT allow the removal of Sadamm. The resolution was clear to liberate Kiwait, but NOT to overthrow the Iraqi government. Too bad...but my take it is better to have our fighting force 10 minutes from the scum of the earth instead of 10 days. There or here, I am glad we are taking the fight to mulsim scum there, than here.
Because they are illegal unless an easily obtained court order is issued, even retroactively. Did the Bush administration even bother to follow this well established legal procedure? No, they did whatever the hell they wanted to do and brought us to the situation we find ourselves in today. It isn't a matter of tapping a few phones that is at issue here, it is Bush's flagrant disregard for the rule of law that he held up his right hand twice and swore on the bible to uphold. When he asked Congress to include the wire tapping power as part of a security bill years ago, they said no. They said that it wasn't necessary because of the court procedures already in place. He ignored Congress and did just as he pleased. If Congress goes after him for this, I think he gets what he deserves for being an idiot. BTW In the small town of Crawford Texas, a village searches for it's idiot. Look east young Texans, look east. For he has taken flight to a place most foul. He sits atop his imagined throne and lords over his flock as if he were still among the brush and sand of his boyhood home. Beware young Texans. You'll have your idiot back sooner than you think and we will pick up the pieces of our constitution and ply glue and sauve to our shattered homeland.
Any lost liberties in the past 5 or so years can be attributed to Bush (loss of privacy rights). All the terrorist did was kill people (drunk drivers do that every day) but Bush has violated the very liberties that we hold more sacred than life. I remember when they used to tell guys like you to go live in Russia (America love it or leave it).
You don't see too many 'good' Muslim body guards. They're to messy, always relying on Allah to guide their bullets. Bone
