At 180,000 miles. Obviously not under warranty. The new motor comes with a 'lifetime of the car' warranty. It's because the oil light started flickering. And the front main bearing wasn't getting enough oil. After the camshaft sychronization sensor (which probably wasn't bad because the motor ran just fine but the computer was complaining about a missing sync pulse but it was more likely a connector issue) got replaced. And the front cover started leaking coolant right after. So they had to pull the whole thing off and replace the gasket and some o-rings and seals. And maybe something wasn't exactly in the right place... I get to pay for 'incidental items' like hoses and gaskets and a bit of the associated labor for those items - normal maintenance kinds of things. I didn't even have to call a frickin' lawyer or use strong language. I can't decide whether to jump up and down in joy or get pissed because my zero oil consumption running like a watch 'strongest pissant v6 I've ever owned' is headed for the boneyard to be replaced by an unknown what isn't even broke-in yet. -- nuts
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:47:13 -0500, mixed nuts wrote: > At 180,000 miles. Obviously not under warranty. That's how I feel. > The new motor comes > with a 'lifetime of the car' warranty. It's because the oil light > started flickering. And the front main bearing wasn't getting enough > oil. After the camshaft sychronization sensor (which probably wasn't > bad because the motor ran just fine but the computer was complaining > about a missing sync pulse but it was more likely a connector issue) > got replaced. And the front cover started leaking coolant right after. > So they had to pull the whole thing off and replace the gasket and some > o-rings and seals. And maybe something wasn't exactly in the right > place... > > I get to pay for 'incidental items' like hoses and gaskets and a bit > of the associated labor for those items - normal maintenance kinds of > things. > > I didn't even have to call a frickin' lawyer or use strong language. Why are you not paying for the motor? known recall issue or something? > I can't decide whether to jump up and down in joy or get pissed because > my zero oil consumption running like a watch 'strongest pissant v6 I've > ever owned' is headed for the boneyard to be replaced by an unknown what > isn't even broke-in yet. You know of course that everyone who read that will promptly develop engine-trouble-- it's worse than that "nemesis" thing, you know, like when you say something like "I've never had a bit of trouble with" something or other, and . . . . This here Concord 2.7 L LH model V6 I've got came with a really nice trick, both the owner's and the Haynes manuals say you can use ordinary motor-oil with it but you can't, it's a suicide gig (see "Chrysler" and "LH" and "2.7 L" and "sludging", not to mention "timing-chain cover" and "blown off"), you have to use a hi-temp detergent synthetic (Mopar/Mobil One). It supposedly was computer-designed, in some more profound sense than that it was computer-modeled on computer in the usual various ways, including CAD-assisted. And, supposedly, the 3.2 L is OK, which makes one wonder if someone didn't design the 3.2 and then simply scale it down in some (crucial) way(s) for the 2.7. -- tinmimus99@hotmail.com smeeter 11 or maybe 12 mp 10 mhm 29x13 When a system is set up to accomplish some goal, a new entity has come into being--the system itself. No matter what the "goal" of the system, it immediately begins to exhibit system behavior; that is, to act according to the general laws that govern the operation of all systems. Now the system itself has to be dealt with. < _Systemantics_
mixed nuts wrote: > At 180,000 miles. Obviously not under warranty. The new motor comes > with a 'lifetime of the car' warranty. It's because the oil light > started flickering. And the front main bearing wasn't getting enough > oil. After the camshaft sychronization sensor (which probably wasn't > bad because the motor ran just fine but the computer was complaining > about a missing sync pulse but it was more likely a connector issue) > got replaced. And the front cover started leaking coolant right after. > So they had to pull the whole thing off and replace the gasket and some > o-rings and seals. And maybe something wasn't exactly in the right > place... > > I get to pay for 'incidental items' like hoses and gaskets and a bit > of the associated labor for those items - normal maintenance kinds of > things. > > I didn't even have to call a frickin' lawyer or use strong language. > > I can't decide whether to jump up and down in joy or get pissed because > my zero oil consumption running like a watch 'strongest pissant v6 I've > ever owned' is headed for the boneyard to be replaced by an unknown what > isn't even broke-in yet. Be happy with your new motor. Let us rejoice. I'll take one for my 286,000 mile Vortec 350. It's getting a little choppy. The #6 cylinder cuts out sometimes. -- Tim Weaver "We each owe a death, there are no exceptions, I know that, but sometimes, oh God, the Green Mile seems so long." -Dabbs Greer as Old Paul Edgecomb from "The Green Mile"
mimus wrote: > On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:47:13 -0500, mixed nuts wrote: > >> At 180,000 miles. Obviously not under warranty. > > That's how I feel. > >> The new motor comes >> with a 'lifetime of the car' warranty. It's because the oil light >> started flickering. And the front main bearing wasn't getting enough >> oil. After the camshaft sychronization sensor (which probably wasn't >> bad because the motor ran just fine but the computer was complaining >> about a missing sync pulse but it was more likely a connector issue) >> got replaced. And the front cover started leaking coolant right after. >> So they had to pull the whole thing off and replace the gasket and some >> o-rings and seals. And maybe something wasn't exactly in the right >> place... >> >> I get to pay for 'incidental items' like hoses and gaskets and a bit >> of the associated labor for those items - normal maintenance kinds of >> things. >> >> I didn't even have to call a frickin' lawyer or use strong language. > > Why are you not paying for the motor? known recall issue or something? > >> I can't decide whether to jump up and down in joy or get pissed because >> my zero oil consumption running like a watch 'strongest pissant v6 I've >> ever owned' is headed for the boneyard to be replaced by an unknown what >> isn't even broke-in yet. > > You know of course that everyone who read that will promptly develop > engine-trouble-- it's worse than that "nemesis" thing, you know, like when > you say something like "I've never had a bit of trouble with" something or > other, and . . . . Yeah well, I beat you by six minutes. > This here Concord 2.7 L LH model V6 I've got came with a really nice > trick, both the owner's and the Haynes manuals say you can use ordinary > motor-oil with it but you can't, it's a suicide gig (see "Chrysler" and > "LH" and "2.7 L" and "sludging", not to mention "timing-chain cover" and > "blown off"), you have to use a hi-temp detergent synthetic (Mopar/Mobil > One). > > It supposedly was computer-designed, in some more profound sense than that > it was computer-modeled on computer in the usual various ways, including > CAD-assisted. > > And, supposedly, the 3.2 L is OK, which makes one wonder if someone didn't > design the 3.2 and then simply scale it down in some (crucial) way(s) for > the 2.7. > -- Tim Weaver "We each owe a death, there are no exceptions, I know that, but sometimes, oh God, the Green Mile seems so long." -Dabbs Greer as Old Paul Edgecomb from "The Green Mile"
Don't fight it, mixed nuts...Just lie down and try to relax: >At 180,000 miles. Obviously not under warranty. The new motor comes >with a 'lifetime of the car' warranty. It's because the oil light >started flickering. Honey, that's because you're supposed to change the oil occasionally. >And the front main bearing wasn't getting enough >oil. After the camshaft sychronization sensor (which probably wasn't >bad because the motor ran just fine but the computer was complaining >about a missing sync pulse but it was more likely a connector issue) >got replaced. And the front cover started leaking coolant right after. >So they had to pull the whole thing off and replace the gasket and some >o-rings and seals. And maybe something wasn't exactly in the right >place... > >I get to pay for 'incidental items' like hoses and gaskets and a bit >of the associated labor for those items - normal maintenance kinds of >things. > >I didn't even have to call a frickin' lawyer or use strong language. > >I can't decide whether to jump up and down in joy or get pissed because >my zero oil consumption running like a watch 'strongest pissant v6 I've >ever owned' is headed for the boneyard to be replaced by an unknown what >isn't even broke-in yet. -- "Memo to God: Last two things to do: (1) Cancel Wavy. (2) Turn out the lights." --Mimus submits a rewrite for the ending of The Bible. ***************************************** * * * Wavy G * * mail me at: * * godsspeciallamb @ gmail.com * * * * * *****************************************
mimus wrote: > On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:47:13 -0500, mixed nuts wrote: > >>At 180,000 miles. Obviously not under warranty. > > That's how I feel. > >> The new motor comes >>with a 'lifetime of the car' warranty. It's because the oil light >>started flickering. And the front main bearing wasn't getting enough >>oil. After the camshaft sychronization sensor (which probably wasn't >>bad because the motor ran just fine but the computer was complaining >>about a missing sync pulse but it was more likely a connector issue) >>got replaced. And the front cover started leaking coolant right after. >>So they had to pull the whole thing off and replace the gasket and some >>o-rings and seals. And maybe something wasn't exactly in the right >>place... >> >>I get to pay for 'incidental items' like hoses and gaskets and a bit >>of the associated labor for those items - normal maintenance kinds of >>things. >> >>I didn't even have to call a frickin' lawyer or use strong language. > > Why are you not paying for the motor? known recall issue or something? > No recall. This engine design has evolved over 30 years and has a reputation of being indestructable - given reasonable maintenance. In my case, the mechanics have made the usual tests over years to diagnose various issues, have pulled covers a couple of times and noted that the engine is like new. There's not even the standard soot accumulation in the nooks and crannies. The possibility that a main bearing would destruct from oil starvation is beyond belief.. They know this, and they know I know it as well. It's a bitch 'splainin' to a fookin' hot roddin' engineer how a well maintained engine suddenly got bad broke when there's no leaks and no sign of neglect or abuse. They weren't even going to try (they have made a few errors and omissions over the years, and it's usually stressful and sometimes expensive when I reappear within minutes after picking up the car, without my usual cheerful grin). The service manager has figured out that he'd best not assign a slap-dash mechanic (used clunker vs new-under-warranty grade mechanic) to my job or leave something amiss to promote future business 'cuz it just won't work out. > >>I can't decide whether to jump up and down in joy or get pissed because >>my zero oil consumption running like a watch 'strongest pissant v6 I've >>ever owned' is headed for the boneyard to be replaced by an unknown what >>isn't even broke-in yet. > > You know of course that everyone who read that will promptly develop > engine-trouble-- it's worse than that "nemesis" thing, you know, like when > you say something like "I've never had a bit of trouble with" something or > other, and . . . . Nah. No metaphysics in effect. Shit happens for a reason. > > This here Concord 2.7 L LH model V6 I've got came with a really nice > trick, both the owner's and the Haynes manuals say you can use ordinary > motor-oil with it but you can't, it's a suicide gig (see "Chrysler" and > "LH" and "2.7 L" and "sludging", not to mention "timing-chain cover" and > "blown off"), you have to use a hi-temp detergent synthetic (Mopar/Mobil > One). > In the effort to improve efficiency, oil viscosity has been reduced and oil pump flow and power consumption have been strongly limited. To compensate, bearing clearances have been reduced. Lower flow also means smaller space saving oil passages. There's little margin when things get sloppy. My car spends most of its time on the highway and never gets put away cold - even a trip to the store includes a minimum of 20 minutes running and a short run on the interstate just to make sure condensation is pulled through. Even the PCV line shows no accumulation of varnish (the mechanic chasing a MAP sensor problem noted that he had never seen a throttle body that clean on a high mileage car (did you clean it?)). I've always used 5W20 plain-old in this car (recommended) and change oil and filter at 3000 miles. The oil changing guys think I should use high mileage oil (because things are getting worn donchaknow). Since oil consumption is zero, and oil pressure at idle is the same as it was (until last week) when the car was a youngster, I always decline. My experience with a lot of engines (including some that were raced) tells me that condensation while the engine is cold is really destructive - this is where sludge comes from. I have 'restored' several engines by changing oil at short intervals and adding some polar solvents just before the change (your oil smelled funny). Possibly my best trick was on a Buick 231 (3.8L) that smoked and clattered badly - a full throttle blast would leave a fog bank and move a tablespoon of oil into the air cleaner - 30K miles later, after a valve job and some 'improvements' the sucker ran like a watch - just in time for the former to borrow it while her new car was in the shop. Gave her the keys and said nothing. She went through the routine of pumping the gas about 10 times while cranking which flooded it and gave the standard smell. I got in, put the pedal to the floor and cranked for 30 seconds (it would never crank that long before but it had a new battery). The thing fired, I told her to get in and showed her that ol' Leroy had some snot now (pinning the speedometer in about 15 seconds really get her attention). > It supposedly was computer-designed, in some more profound sense than that > it was computer-modeled on computer in the usual various ways, including > CAD-assisted. Mostly CFD (computational fluid dynamics) gives you a handle on heat and fluid flow. Define constraints, turn the optimizer loose and poof - minutes later (or weeks sometimes) and you have the most excellent intake manifold or excellent cooling of the cylinder heads all designed up. Finite element analysis is used to figure out where stress and strain is an issue. Unstressed areas can be shaved, and strained areas can be buttressed. The end result is small engines making big horsepower or big engines making huge horsepower, and surviving for a very long time (we used to call that class a "grenade" engine - explosive power and a good chance that it will end up in pieces all over the track). > > And, supposedly, the 3.2 L is OK, which makes one wonder if someone didn't > design the 3.2 and then simply scale it down in some (crucial) way(s) for > the 2.7. > I'm unfamiliar with almost anything Chrysler - can't guess. If the bugger is happy when new, and sludge is the issue, it's probably unwise to operate in high-sludge conditions (short trips) without doing severe-duty maintenance. The fancy oil can help in that case. -- nuts
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 00:18:32 -0500, mixed nuts wrote: > mimus wrote: > >> On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:47:13 -0500, mixed nuts wrote: >> >>>At 180,000 miles. Obviously not under warranty. >> >> That's how I feel. >> >>> The new motor comes >>>with a 'lifetime of the car' warranty. It's because the oil light >>>started flickering. And the front main bearing wasn't getting enough >>>oil. After the camshaft sychronization sensor (which probably wasn't >>>bad because the motor ran just fine but the computer was complaining >>>about a missing sync pulse but it was more likely a connector issue) >>>got replaced. And the front cover started leaking coolant right after. >>>So they had to pull the whole thing off and replace the gasket and some >>>o-rings and seals. And maybe something wasn't exactly in the right >>>place... >>> >>>I get to pay for 'incidental items' like hoses and gaskets and a bit >>>of the associated labor for those items - normal maintenance kinds of >>>things. >>> >>>I didn't even have to call a frickin' lawyer or use strong language. >> >> Why are you not paying for the motor? known recall issue or something? >> > No recall. This engine design has evolved over 30 years and has a > reputation of being indestructable - given reasonable maintenance. In > my case, the mechanics have made the usual tests over years to diagnose > various issues, have pulled covers a couple of times and noted that the > engine is like new. There's not even the standard soot accumulation in > the nooks and crannies. The possibility that a main bearing would > destruct from oil starvation is beyond belief.. They know this, and > they know I know it as well. It's a bitch 'splainin' to a fookin' hot > roddin' engineer how a well maintained engine suddenly got bad broke > when there's no leaks and no sign of neglect or abuse. They weren't > even going to try (they have made a few errors and omissions over the > years, and it's usually stressful and sometimes expensive when I > reappear within minutes after picking up the car, without my usual > cheerful grin). The service manager has figured out that he'd best not > assign a slap-dash mechanic (used clunker vs new-under-warranty grade > mechanic) to my job or leave something amiss to promote future > business 'cuz it just won't work out. >> >>>I can't decide whether to jump up and down in joy or get pissed because >>>my zero oil consumption running like a watch 'strongest pissant v6 I've >>>ever owned' is headed for the boneyard to be replaced by an unknown what >>>isn't even broke-in yet. >> >> You know of course that everyone who read that will promptly develop >> engine-trouble-- it's worse than that "nemesis" thing, you know, like when >> you say something like "I've never had a bit of trouble with" something or >> other, and . . . . > Nah. No metaphysics in effect. Shit happens for a reason. >> >> This here Concord 2.7 L LH model V6 I've got came with a really nice >> trick, both the owner's and the Haynes manuals say you can use ordinary >> motor-oil with it but you can't, it's a suicide gig (see "Chrysler" and >> "LH" and "2.7 L" and "sludging", not to mention "timing-chain cover" and >> "blown off"), you have to use a hi-temp detergent synthetic (Mopar/Mobil >> One). > > In the effort to improve efficiency, oil viscosity has been reduced and > oil pump flow and power consumption have been strongly limited. To > compensate, bearing clearances have been reduced. Lower flow also means > smaller space saving oil passages. There's little margin when things > get sloppy. > > My car spends most of its time on the highway and never gets put away > cold - even a trip to the store includes a minimum of 20 minutes > running and a short run on the interstate just to make sure > condensation is pulled through. Even the PCV line shows no accumulation > of varnish (the mechanic chasing a MAP sensor problem noted that he had > never seen a throttle body that clean on a high mileage car (did you > clean it?)). I've always used 5W20 plain-old in this car (recommended) > and change oil and filter at 3000 miles. The oil changing guys think I > should use high mileage oil (because things are getting worn > donchaknow). Since oil consumption is zero, and oil pressure at idle is > the same as it was (until last week) when the car was a youngster, I > always decline. My experience with a lot of engines (including some > that were raced) tells me that condensation while the engine is cold is > really destructive - this is where sludge comes from. I have 'restored' > several engines by changing oil at short intervals and adding some > polar solvents just before the change (your oil smelled funny). > Possibly my best trick was on a Buick 231 (3.8L) that smoked and > clattered badly - a full throttle blast would leave a fog bank and move > a tablespoon of oil into the air cleaner - 30K miles later, after a > valve job and some 'improvements' the sucker ran like a watch - just in > time for the former to borrow it while her new car was in the shop. > Gave her the keys and said nothing. She went through the routine of > pumping the gas about 10 times while cranking which flooded it and gave > the standard smell. I got in, put the pedal to the floor and cranked > for 30 seconds (it would never crank that long before but it had a new > battery). The thing fired, I told her to get in and showed her that ol' > Leroy had some snot now (pinning the speedometer in about 15 seconds > really get her attention). Hey, I'm happy if I can (say) change the oil without bleeding or getting blinded. >> It supposedly was computer-designed, in some more profound sense than >> that it was computer-modeled on computer in the usual various ways, >> including CAD-assisted. > > Mostly CFD (computational fluid dynamics) gives you a handle on heat and > fluid flow. Define constraints, turn the optimizer loose and poof - > minutes later (or weeks sometimes) and you have the most excellent > intake manifold or excellent cooling of the cylinder heads all designed > up. Finite element analysis is used to figure out where stress and > strain is an issue. Unstressed areas can be shaved, and strained areas > can be buttressed. The end result is small engines making big > horsepower or big engines making huge horsepower, and surviving for a > very long time (we used to call that class a "grenade" engine - > explosive power and a good chance that it will end up in pieces all over > the track). *Damn* that sounds close. Although I strongly suspect a negative dropped out of your clause about "surviving". -- tinmimus99@hotmail.com smeeter 11 or maybe 12 mp 10 mhm 29x13 Since when is a mechanical cow an act of God? < Goulart
