Muslims and western society

No we aren't as bad. I think you're falling into this category.

 

Sorry but you are. Look at the rape statistics in the USA:

Every Two and a Half Minutes | Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network

There are cases of American soldiers who are rapists, too. Don't forget that.

By the way, please don't try and turn this into an American bashing thing. I hate the Muslim men who kill and rape, too. But it's only fair to hate all killers and rapists equally, as your little snippet points out.

 

I also despise Australians (and any person of any other nationality) who kill, to pip that one in the post before anyone jumps on it.

 

Your absolutely right. America has the scum of the earth in its presents.

But I didn't even look at the statistics you posted only because it wouldn't be fair. We can't get statics of rape murder and pimping from a Islamic nation like we can from America and Australia. That's the point. These women have to hide in shame from being raped. We only get a glimpse of there atrocities.

 

And Western laws prohibits this while Islamic law welcomes it.

 

Ok, good point. I personally feel that Islamic women are more oppressed than Western women, too.

But just because their justice system isn't the same as ours it doesn't mean the type and frequency of their rapes are any worse than ours - and Western rape stats are awful.

And bear in mind that a reported rape doesn't necessarily equate to the rapist being convicted and punished accordingly.

 

The point you are missing Anna is there are degrees.

While a rape in America and a rape in Iran would be the same or similar at the time it happened, the social barriers a woman must face are completely different. In America, the woman can report the crime and even without much evidence, at least the cops will try to build a case against the attacker and arrest him.

In any muslim controlled Country, the woman can only report it if she has 4 men to side with her against the man in question and even with that, she is considered soiled from that moment on.

If you thing rape is under reported in America, what do you think is happening with them?



No, in reality, a muslim woman being raped is much, much worse in comparison because or how completely alone she is after the fact.


But, their society is their society, I don't like what they do to women but when they bring those attitudes into the western world and start doing things like rioting and raping unveiled women, this I see as a huge problem to our societies.


We cannot say that just because America has a few rapes that it stopps us from being able to complain about their rapes and the worse attached social penalties for complaining about the rape. Just because the rare skinhead does something violent, that does not mean we cannot point out that violence is the norm, not the exception in muslim societies.

Americans and western people in general do not target children and other innocents for violence on purpose, muslims on the other hand believe children are the prefered target for their violent attacks.


Yes, Christians and athiests do bad things, but you cannot compare "modern" events, there is just no real comparison. Look at the many riots in France, or the gang rapes in Australia, the terrorist attacks like 9/11 and many lesser terrorist attacks on children all over the world, the writing is on the wall, it is our decision to read it or ignore it.

 

Do you really need to dig this deep to validate invading the middle east and murdering people for natural resources?

 

Muslim Rape Wave in Sweden

By Fjordman

 

White Women the Victims In Over 90% of Interracial
Rapes

So now we have to ask is Europe's rape problem primarily due to their immigrants race or their religion.

Whatever happened to the feminists? Where did they go?

 

Do you really have to dig so deep to try and make everything about oil?


Did you know the two Countries we import the most oil from are Canada and Mexico?





Hugo, the feminists are also mostly liberals, their need to be politically correct over rides their need to promote women's rights. That is why the ACLU refuses to take action against the public schools that have created "special" classes for muslim children so they can pray several times a day. The ACLU would have a cow if this kind of thing was done to allow christian prayer, but somehow it is okay if it is muslim prayer.

 

They did take christian prayer out of school. They can't have Christian symbols. Christians are not allowed to assmeble in public schools. They want to take "under God" out of our pledge of allegiance. They took christmas off of the public calanders. Can't have a Christmas tree either. They won't teach the theroy of intelligent design. But you better have a matt facing meca for those Muslims!

 

There was no need for you to patronise me, I have 'missed' no 'point' you were trying to make.

Please read my posts properly, particularly my last one:

I never actually said it was under-reported in America, now that you mention it.

The support available to women after being raped is inadequate all over the world. The fact that Islamic women have less bureaucratic support than Western women does not make the trauma of the actual rape any worse. Rape is rape is rape. A woman is always going to feel traumatised afterwards, no matter who or where she is.

 

Here we go ....

Why do you try to blame almost everything on 'liberals'? You are worse than a broken record.

Also, kindly back up your statement about feminists that "their need to be politically correct over-rides their need to promote women's rights".

And are you seriously trying to claim that feminists are to blame for the privileges extended to Muslims?

Now, that's two straight questions and one simple request. Let's see if you can comply without telling me something about myself (that you have assumed incorrectly).

 

Well yes and no. the trauma might be greater here only because it's not the norm. But these Islamic women also have to deal with mutilations, being convicted of being raped (blows my mind) and then subjected to nude public caning and or imprisonment for being a victim!
I think thats gotta be pretty damn traumatic. They also have to carry it with them for the rest of there life. I know western women have to carry it too but I don't think the Muslim women are getting counseling afterwords like they would here.

 

Oh, I know. I agree that the aftermath for Islamic women is worse. I also consider them to be more oppressed, but that's just my Westernised view of it.

But all raped women have to carry the pain with them, for the rest of their lives.

I also find it grossly ironic when Western men claim to be outraged by the way Muslim men treat women, but then think it's fine to sneer at feminism in the same breath.

Women are repressed, oppressed, raped, beaten, abused and attacked and generally treated like **** all over the world.

Muslim men are just better at getting away with it.

 

I couldn't agree with much of this.

Women get a fair deal in the West. In the UK most university admissions are to women, and there are sizeable numbers of women in the professions.

Raped, beaten and abused ? Yes this can happen. It happens to men too. This is more about societies ills, and particularly the judiciaries unwillingness to punish offenders, than it is about men's attitudes to women.

Certainly women are treated like **** in some parts of the world. Much of Islam for example.

 

What people sneer about is how the feminists tend to look the other direction when the oppression is not coming from Christian white males and how they seem to be unwilling to speak out against a growing ideology, derived from Islam, in the West that dehumanizes women.


Excerpts from:
Women the Future of Freedom

By Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Posted: Monday, August 28, 2006

ARTICLES
Weekend Australian
Publication Date: August 26, 2006

Much of the world missed out on the Enlightenment.

More on Ms. Ali:

 

Obviously you are missing the point.

Taking just the rape event, yse, the rape is similar to both the American woman and the muslim woman.

It is "after" the rape where the two events completely divide.

An American woman can go to the police and the man she accuses will be "assumed" guilty until proven innocent. Any jury will believe a crying woman over any man so as long as there is a small amount of evidence to support the woman, the man is convicted.


A Muslim woman can only have justice if 4 men join her against the man or men that did the crime. In a male dominated society like that, you will not find that happening very often, so the woman gets raped by the man, then raped again by the system that refuses to see her as a person. It is that area that makes her rape ten times worse than the American counterpart.


Muslim men are not "getting away with it", they are doing it in the open, and not allowing the woman to be seen as human.

As with all education, repetition is the best way to teach and learn.

Of course you would need an open mind for that to work.

Okay, you explain the silence of these groups to completely ignore the plight of muslim women? They speak up on almost everything else but never really go after the harm done to muslim women.

There is no logical reason for this so one plus one equals two. It is common knowledge that feminists are liberals and that liberals are the biggest pushers of being politically correct. They are very loud except for this, clearly one agenda is overriding a lesser agenda.

Nope, it was liberals, now most feminists are liberals so clearly they could be involved, but not all liberals are feminists, so no, feminists have not been the driving force behind the politically correct trend to give Muslims freedoms like allowing prayer in public school when that right was taken away from christian children.

A little smart mouthed arn't you?

If your getting pissed off maybe you should not get involved in these kinds of discussions.

I never make assumptions, but I also have a saying:


"You can make your mouth say anything."

You can "say" your not one thing or another, but your actions are what truly defines you. Your defending Muslims and trying to make the rape problem sound similar between Americans and Muslim woman is an action that helps define what you truly are.

 

Wow. Women get degrees and jobs. How awesome.

You know, women get degrees and jobs in Islamic countries too.

This issue has everything to do with men's attitudes to women. Women are possessions, prizes, pieces of meat to be traded and punished according to men's whims.

Islam is not a "part of the world". It's a religion.

My whole point is that women are treated like **** in the West, too. I'm not denying that Muslim women are oppressed. I have expressed this several times in this thread already.

How can you say that? It's the few strong feminists in the Islamic countries who are the ones speaking out about the atrocities happening to them - Mukhtar Mai is an excellent example.

I'm a feminist, and I'm not turning my back on the way Muslim men treat women.

As a true feminist, I'm also not turning my back on the way western men treat women, either.

By the way, the one growing ideology in the West that I find most dehumanising to women is certainly not the Islamic tradition of covering women up, but the proliferation of violent and visceral porn.

Certainly you can't tell me that the porn industry is an Islamic Industry.

No dear, you are. But keep trying to tell everyone that I'm missing it. Maybe someone with half a brain won't bother to go back and read over our posts, and just believe you simply because you-say-so.

Just Maybe - fingers crossed!!!

REALLY? OMG!!! REALLY????

Because I didn't already say that:

Kindly prove this.

But when white men rape, they allow the woman to feel human?

How are they ignoring it?

And why is the onus of responsibility on "Feminist Liberal" shoulders? They are not the ones raping Muslim women.

Surely your anger would be more aptly directed at the rapists themselves. I can't believe Feminists and Liberals are even being faulted for anything in this thread. It's not their fault that men are rapists.

Kindly show me proof of Complete Liberal Control of the school system. Because I was under the impression that your government was a Republican government.

Please drag yourself from the ancient swamp your ego is dwelling in, and show me how exactly I'm being "smart mouthed" in the following post:

I notice you couldn't actually comply.

You never make assumptions, huh?

Funny, because it looks like you just assumed that I've been defending Muslims.

Comparing their behaviour to Western behaviour is not a defence.

Unless of course you're a flat out liar and you're deliberately trying to smear me with an untrue brush - but I won't assume the worst of you.

I'm not like you. Thank Goodness.