Man Shoots Own Son. All Too Often the Result of Gun Ownership

For every accidental or on purpose killing with a gun, there are 10 or more crimes stopped by guns.....I guessed at 10 but I know it is up there. Post all the shootings you want, there are 40-60 million gun owners in USA and over 90 million guns. The percentage is below 1%.
I like guns period, I would own them even if the crime rate was zero. Simple, they are fun to shoot and collect. An added plus is they can be very helpful in a dangerous situation.
You are pulling out the old Alinski trick to lump all gun owners as killers and you know it.
When you are comfortable with it, please share your trauma with us so we might better understand your intense fear of firearms.

 

[quote="JoeNation, post: 87617, member: 18991" View attachment 618 [/quote]
Interesting. Knives appear to be used in homicides more frequently than rifles (or as it is more accurately put in the graph, "other guns"), on average. I mention it 'cause you just know someone will, lol.

 

He already has, as Moen1305, but you are probably already aware of that. If not, it's easy enough to find.

 

No I am not aware, but I knew something was causing it. Please message me a link. I do not get this site on my phone anymore but will check back tomorrow. Thank You

 

As usual, you can't hear words you don't want to hear. To put it simply enough for you, you own guns out of fear, I do NOT refuse to own guns out of fear of them. Your position makes no sense since I have owned guns and had no fear of them. The fact that you can't even acknowledge my supposition that not having guns in your house would make you feel uncomfortable is highly telling.

 

He did not post it. I did.

Read more: http://www.partisanlines.com/threads/a-very-sad-day-for-establishments-that-ban-concealed-carry.4508/#ixzz2850KtKDl​

 

No need for the private message, his words are public, but I prefer to offer these quotes (by Moen1305) instead:

I'm not necessarily against providing a link, I just don't want someone's personal tragedy to be thrown at them over and over again, just to make a point.

The blessing.

That should be sufficient. If not, it should make your search easier.

*With apologies to Joe, if he considers these comments to be out of line. My intent was simply to inform.

 

Please forgive my blatant use of your personal tragedy to make a point.

I considered the likelihood that you'd understand why I chose to reply the way I did, and had also considered asking your permission at first, but determined it to already be public knowledge that you were comfortable about sharing here.

If any of that was wrong, I sincerely apologize.

 

I own guns out of fear? Thats laughable

 

I wouldn't have posted it if I wanted to keep it a secret. My position on guns hasn't changed before or since an accidental hunting accident almost killed my brother. Hunting accidents happen especially with careless uses of firearms. I can accept that and I'm sure so do those that participate in the sport. Heck, my dad almost died fishing one time. That is nature. You take the risk every time you venture out into the wilderness.

Your psychoanalyzing is waaaaaaay off base here. You might have thought that you had something but sorry, just isn't the case. I don't worry about guns like rifles and shotguns for hunting or target shooting. It is the handgun wild west mentality demonstrated by your link to 2 drives that shot at each other that makes me think that people with easily accessible handguns are the real problem. I think many people with handguns just fantasize about stopping a crime guns blazing. They see themselves as Joe Law and are going to stop that criminal in his tracks with their trusty handgun and they can't wait to get the opportunity.
Now if I could do a little psychoanalyzing, I'd say that people like that come from families with highly authoritative conservative fathers and are of lower intellect on average. They see the world in black and white, good and evil, us and them. A deadly weapon in their hands, in their opinion, keeps them from ever becoming the victim that their father made them feel like and that they refuse to ever be again. For some people, this is what gives them comfort and yet others see themselves as some sort of avengers out to save the world but in their twisted take on reality, they only add to the problem. Ask George Zimmerman sometime.

 

Then leave them with a friend sometime and count how many times you think about not having them. Owning a deadly weapon is sort of the definition of fear.

 

What do ya know, another father shoots his own son....AGAIN!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-father-shoots-son-20121010,0,3553931.story

 

Gee, people from Chicago are idiots!!!!

 

Blame the father who made the mistake, not the firearm.

 

I do blame the father...with the gun.

 

Do you also blame the mother... with the knife and the hammer... in this attack?

Westerlo woman charged with murdering son

WESTERLO — Authorities charged the mother of a 22-year-old man with his murder Tuesday, saying she repeatedly stabbed him in the chest and bludgeoned him in the head numerous times with a hammer in their home.​

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Tracy Zetsche, 52, was arraigned in Town Court on a second-degree murder charge in the death of her son Gabriel Philby-Zetsche. Justice Robert Carl read Zetsche the charge, which described a gruesome killing and which accused the woman of stabbing her son in the heart multiple times with a knife and striking him with a hammer. Gabriel Philby-Zetsche, 22, died of blunt-force and stab wounds, Albany County sheriff's authorities said, citing an autopsy report.​

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Read more: http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Westerlo-woman-charged-with-murdering-son-3749688.php#ixzz28uFO27kK​

 

Suspect in Fatal Slashing of Youth Soccer Coach Flees to Mexico​

If this guy is guilty, do we blame him or the knife?​

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NEW YORK – The main suspect in the gruesome murder of a 25-year-old youth soccer coach in New York City has fled to Mexico's capital.

Alleged killer Orlando Orea, also known as Orlando Gutierrez or Orlando Estevas, is believed to have slashed and slice the ear off of Michael Jones, leaving his ravaged body on a city street.

On Tuesday morning Orea bought a one-way ticket on an Aero Mexico flight with cash moments before it was scheduled to leave from Kennedy International Airport, according to the official, who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing.

Detectives discovered Orea's name at about 4:45 p.m. Tuesday and immediately placed him on a no-fly list, but he was already gone, the official said. Orea, 32, is suspected of killing Jones at about 4:30 a.m. Sunday after the two men were seen together, possibly arguing, on 14th Street in Union Square, one of Manhattan's busiest neighborhoods, the official said.

Jones had been out with his girlfriend earlier but they parted around midnight, police said. Officers were called to the bloody scene where Jones lay on the street. He was taken to Bellevue Hospital where he was pronounced dead. The Liverpool, England, native was a coach with the New York Red Bulls Youth Training Program. He lived in West Harrison, in Westchester County.

Police late Sunday released surveillance footage of the suspected slasher, a man with a ponytail wearing a dark jacket. The motive remains unclear, but it's possible it was a case of mistaken identity, police said. The suspect, who lived in Queens, was in an earlier fight at a nearby bar that may have involved a woman. And he was apparently seen by witnesses with a knife in the bar, the official said. The suspect left, then encountered Jones on the street.
It's not clear what, if any, ties Orea has to Mexico.

The New York Red Bulls, a Major League Soccer team, plan to hold a memorial Wednesday in Westchester County.
Jones' father, Perry, 50, of Tarleton, near Liverpool, told the New York Daily News that he wanted his son's body returned to England.

"We just want to get Mike back here as quickly as we can really and finish off what's going on in America," Jones told the newspaper.

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Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/10/10/suspect-in-fatal-slashing-youth-soccer-coach-flees-to-mexico/#ixzz28uH2Hstu​

 

All of your gun arguments are specious. Empty rhetoric with no real meaning. Here is why exactly...

"Fire and Drugs Kill People, Too. You Wanna Outlaw Matches and Drugs?"
As far as that first bit is concerned, I couldn't agree more. Fire and drugs kill people. I am so agreeing with that right now. But in this article by Scott L. Bach, president of guns and stuff, he puts forth an argument in favor of guns and stuff that takes it too far. It is a very common yet very broken argument, so I'll just copy/paste it for you right here:

"When an arsonist lights a match that burns a building, is the match at fault? Are match manufacturers responsible for the fire? Should laws be passed prohibiting you from having and using matches, or restricting which types you can have, and in what quantities?

"The obvious answer to these questions is no. The same match that is misused by the arsonist lights the fireplace that warms us, and the stove that feeds us. The match has no mind of its own. It is not an evil invention. Its purpose is to ignite, nothing more. If it is misused, the solution is to punish the individual wrongdoer. Everyone else should be left alone.
"The same is true of firearms."

OK. Simply put, "Nuh-uh."
A match has many uses completely unrelated to causing death. A match is not manufactured or intended for death. And the same goes for drugs (unless of course you're talking about the death of the walls confining us to our limited understanding of perception, man). In fact, the same goes for basically anything other than a firearm. Tools are misused to kill people, it's true. But tools are meant for something else entirely. Tools build and fix and aid and improve. Firearms do not. If used correctly, a firearm is meant to, in an instant, kill or destroy something. If a gun is used incorrectly, it would actually mean that something doesn't get shot.

If guns only killed criminals or stopped murder sprees then we would have no problem but more often they are used in suicides, violent crimes, accidental shootings, and any number of unintended situations that result in people being victimized by someone with a gun. You try and pretend that guns are only for protection but that is clearly a false ideal.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but the purpose of my firearms is defense, not offense. If no one invades my home or puts my life in danger, the proper use of my firearms is to stay safely put away. If confronted with a threat to my life, my firearms will become the tools I use to defend myself.

If confronted with a threat to my life, will my firearms kill? Hopefully, if they do their job correctly.

 

The cost of YOUR safety seems to be a high price for the rest of society. What is it they say? As long as I got mine, screw everyone else. You'd be surprised how often I hear this sentiment from Right-wingers. We are all individuals but sometimes the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. This is a perfect example of that witticism. As long as you personally feel safe damn the consequences of the all access to guns in society until after it is too late to take away a gun that hasn't been used for protection.

I realize that this is a philosophical argument and that either side of that argument can be taken with an equal amount of conviction. I also think that the side of the argument you take says a lot about your personal convictions even while making arguments you feel outweigh the other side's arguments. The basis of my argument is that I feel society would be better off with less guns in it. They are too available and they are too often used by criminals. I have no interest in making crime easier for criminals. Victims of gun violence have no choice in whether or not they are victims of people with guns. The choice only seems to be with the criminals that either use guns or not to use guns. When do the victims of gun violence or their families get a say in this situation? That says a lot about my convictions.