Just Another Second Amendment Solution

No one has explained why Hitler allied himself with Imperil Japan and Fascist Italy if he was such a rabid Socialist. I'm dying to hear the rationale behind that union from the Right-wingers in this forum.

 

I think it is Peter trying to punish us for being baaaaaaaad!

 

Eh, it (ads) makes money, and this site costs money to operate, so I can't blame him. I'm not a big fan of the programs though... they are a bit too intrusive to my tastes for privacy.

The young don't seem to have as much qualms about it (in general) then people my age or older... you can read all about it on their Facebook and Twitter pages.
"I went shopping at such and such today!"
"Such and such is such a jerk! I wanted sprinkles on my ice cream! No sex for HIM today"
"Such and such and I had such great sex just now! Here's the video!"
...Oy!

 

And why did he stab Communist Russia in the back after concluding a strategic alliance with them? Hmm... And what about Nazi persecution of Communists, Socialists, and Trade Unionists? I think that Recusant has pretty much cleared up the Nazis as Socialists thing in a post above. Not that this will slow down the RWers. History means nothing to them. If it's necessary to the RW narrative for the Hitler of 1939 to be a Socialist than a Socialist he is.

 

Who made this chart. Moen. This chart is invalid. Moderates make the middle.

 

Hitler was a Socialist. A Nationalist Socialist. He was for the people. Problem was only his kind of people.

1. Mein Kampf, Volume 2. Chapter 7- In 1919-20 and also in 1921 I attended some of the bourgeois [capitalist] meetings. Invariably I had the same feeling towards these as towards the compulsory dose of castor oil in my boyhood days. . . . And so it is not surprising that the sane and unspoiled masses shun these ‘bourgeois mass meetings’ as the devil shuns holy water.
2.Hitler’s speech on May 1, 1927. Cited in: Toland, John (1992). Adolf Hitler. Anchor Books. pp. 224–225. ISBN 0385037244"We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions."
3. A History of National Socialism (1935), by Konrad Heiden-" Believe me, National Socialism would not be worth anything if it were to be confined to Germany and did not secure the rule of the superior race over the whole world for at least one or two thousand years." Hitler.

Read more: http://www.partisanlines.com/threads/hitler-was-a-socialist.3914/#ixzz1rCTYiuBg​

 

I could go on and on about how Hitler said he was a socialist. How his inner circle were socialists and how the nazi economic policies were socialist. They were National Socialists but were socialists. Why would anyone be surprised when one looks at the other killers of the left


Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 49-78,000,000
Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39) 23,000,000 (the purges plus Ukraine's famine
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000
Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94) 1.6 million (purges and concentration camps)
Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982) 900,000
Tito (Yugoslavia, 1945-1987) 570,000
Sukarno (Communists 1965-66) 500,000

http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html
and of course the National Socialist who gave us the peoples car, the Volkswagon amongst other aryan socialist economic policies
Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945) 12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians WWII)

Remember it was also the left that made the French Revolution bloody with the committee of public safety that wanted to reshape France in its own political image. Thank goodness Napoleon Bonaparte took over.
Did I ever tell you about my gold franc coin collection I have on the man.

 

There you have it. If it's written it must be true. That works for just about any opinion anyone has, instead of hearing any contradictions to their beliefs they can just cover their ears and yell "Nein! Nein! Nein! Nein! Nein!"

They don't even have to be German!

In fact, I've used the same tactic myself, like when my doc suggested a colonoscopy. The prostate exam was funnier though, 'cause as soon as he started I yelled out "I ...have been VIOLATED!!!"

Just yell "Nein! Nein! Nein! Nein! Nein!" if you didn't want to read that.

 

Hitler said he was a socialist. His political party stated it was socialist. The Nazi's had a national socialist economic policy.
They were National Socialist not to be confused with other types of socialism for they only wanted the socialist agenda for the aryan nation. The left refuses to see the facts but the facts are that Hilter was just one of many leftist that were nothing more but massive mass murders as was shown in an earlier post of mine.

"The record of National Socialist Germany during the 1930s shows how quickly government intervention leads to full-scale socialism".
Nazi Economic Policy Mises Daily: Friday, January 02, 2009 by David Gordon

and if you want to go back to the beginning of the National Socialist Movement before power

." The "unalterable" 25 point 1920 program of the party proposed, among other things, "that all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished"; "the nationalization of all trusts"; "profit-sharing in large industries"; and "an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program

 

Again, quoting a mad man's words as proof of your argument is probably one of the worst logical fallacies you could make. Look at his actions and his alliances. That tells you far more about the man than his bad addled rhetoric. What part of this does the Right-Wing not get? The man was insane. Who in their right mind uses the words of a lunatic to prove their assertions? Other lunatics. You guys will buy into anything that furthers your agenda no matter how absurd it is.

 

Here's an interesting read about Hitler's leftist views, ideals and actions. I realize that the LWers on here won't accept anything contrary to their preconceived notions, but please feel free to enlighten yourselves nevertheless:

http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/id9.html

 

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

 

Again, quoting a mad man's words as proof of your argument is probably one of the worst logical fallacies you could make.

 

And imitation is a form of flattery.

 

Why was Mussolini mad? as far as I am aware he was power hungry sure but mad!

 

How can someone who has claimed to work in an university setting have such little understanding of World War II.
1. Communist Russia and National Socialist Germany had a pact to divide Poland and discussions were on for diviing eastern europe.
2. Socialist Germany broke its pack with Communist Russia before Communist Russia was strong enough to break it with Nationalist Germany for they both wanted control of all of Europe. One side for slave labor the other side to be slaves to Stalin's brand of Communism.
2. Finland was allied with Germany during World War II not because they were national socialist but because they were invaded by the Russian Communists and when they asked for help from the west they were denied because at that point the captailistic west was allying itself with the Communist Russia.
3. Captailist United States and Colonist/Captalist Great Britian were allied with Communist Russia after Communist Russia and Social Nationalist Germany fell out of sorts.
4. Facist Spain wanted nothing to do with anyone and played both sides with General Franco hoping that the allies would win and bending here and there for them when he could for he knew Germany would gun for him if they won even if they supported his power grab with air power in Spain's Civil War.
5. Communist Tito was more allied with Captailist England and Captailist United States for he wanted them to arm him in his fight for Yugoslavia for he did not trust Communist Russia after he saw Stalins kangaroo Trials.

I could go on but then I am sure most of the left wasn't reading for it for it contain facts from history.
For the record, I am not a right winger but an independent.

 

Thank you so much for introducing me to Dr. Ray. He has given me several hours of entertainment. The feeling I have when reading his work reminds me of the perverse delight I experienced when viewing Glenn Beck's television show. They have a similar approach: A heavy reliance on inflammatory rhetoric and a willingness to twist and distort history while engaging in the most blatantly mendacious propagandizing. I have been working through both of the steaming piles of bovine faeces linked above, and really I haven't encountered a more thorough-going mountebank in several months. As a connoisseur of pseudo-history, I thank you again, sincerely, for bringing the contemptible Dr. Ray to my attention.

 

I find it unfortunate that you don't find Dr. Ray's research educational. He's highly educated and proffers a conservative view which may be contrary to your own. You have as much access to his research materials as he so it may behoove you to explore some of his references instead of simply balking at his opinions.

http://jonjayray.tripod.com/

Also, I found your statement that you're a "connoisseur of pseudo-history" quite amusing. Do you also enjoy moldy cheese and sour wine?

 

As well as enjoying pseudo-history (Templars fleeing to North America in the 14th century, anyone? Ancient Bosnian pyramids, maybe?) I appreciate well written and accurate history from any perspective, conservative or otherwise. Though ideally a historian (which as you know, Dr. Ray is not, by the way) will have as their primary goal the relaying of accurate information, regardless of their political ideology.

It seems that you assume that I'm as ignorant and gullible as Dr. Ray's target audience: "those who know only what they have learnt via school textbooks, popular encyclopaedias, movies etc." To the contrary: I have had a lifelong interest in history, and have read literally hundreds of (non-fiction) books on historical topics, including the history of the Nazi party. You suggest that I explore references given by Ray. Oh, I have, and my unequivocal conclusion is that he's a liar. One example that jumped out at me early in my reading of his malarkey is his assertion that Hitler, as a "Leftist," made great efforts to get the support of trade unions. This couldn't be further from the truth. You can search for your own sources to check on this, but I'll provide a couple of quick and easy ones to take a look at.

First, Ray's mendacious assertion:

Now, the facts:

This is one clear example of Ray's blatant lying in support of his agenda, but it's not hard to find similar examples throughout his work on this topic. I wouldn't trust a single thing the man says when it comes to the Nazis, and in fact, given what I've learned, I wouldn't trust him on any other topic, either.

Yes, in fact I do appreciate a good Camembert, and a fine balsamic vinegar. But to clarify, I'll give an analogy. A person may enjoy watching "professional wrestling" as an entertainment, while at the same time appreciating the actual sport of wrestling.

 

The Truth About Hitler and the Unions

PERFIDIOUS PORTRAYAL OF HITLER AND UNIONS
The labor union was the chief tool of the early twentieth century demagogue. Modeled after the success of arousing the discontent of the French peasants of the late 18th century, it was the natural place to amalgamate the passions and tensions of workers and lead them into revolt. The basic tenet of both the Russian and German revolutions was labor based social/political revolt (“Workers of the world unite!”). (Emphasis mine). The differences were in style not substance.

Stalin preached the crisis of capitalism would raise the consciousness of the working class to revolt. The Communists in Germany however, competed poorly with Hitler’s Fascistic nationalism, which was rooted in the same discontent. His message to the wealthy however, was not to take everything they owned, but to threaten it. He told them to either work within his system or risk losing your estate. Some prescient individuals understood working with Hitler was better than allowing Hitler to take their property. His message to the worker was, “above all, the trade unions are necessary as foundation stones of the future economic parliament or chambers of estates” (Mein Kampf). He was so totally aligned with labor that he used terms like, “social justice” and “national community” to confirm their importance. (Emphasis mine).

In Mein Kampf, Hitler goes into great detail about how National Socialism must realign all aspects of society to the goals of trade unions, to create an equality of outcome. (Emphasis mine). And if those aspects of society are not willing, they will be taken over (co-opted). Hitler emphasized the Nazi union (German Labor Front) should be the only union, and one way to make it so, was to infiltrate the Marxist unions and slowly transform them (Mein Kampf Vol 2, Ch.12). This is a stunning admission of how similar Nazism was to Marxism, that its members could infiltrate it and transform its labor union. It was not about espionage or sabotage, but simply occupying the Marxist union and moving it the short distance from following Stalin to following Hitler. This is why when combined with his co-opting of the military and the wealthy, Hitler is associated with right wing fascism. If there even were such a thing, Hitler could not have been further from it.
His extreme socialist impulse explains perfectly his hatred of Marxism, as a competitor for the constituency he so needed to take over the German government. The Communist Party, although failing to garner political majorities, by its numbers foiled Hitler’s objectives of doing the same and caused his utter hatred for Communism…not because he was right wing. Adolf Hitler was really an alloy of Socialism and Fascism, and not purely either one by itself. His relationship with private business and was a matter of a pragmatic approach to controlling the German government.

Hitler and Conservatives
He played up German nationalism as a way to appeal to the conservative elements of rural society, while playing down his economic plans, because he needed at least some conservative support to achieve his goal of winning the majority. During the Weimar hyperinflation the farmers did not fare as badly as those in the cities because they were dealing in commodities such as food that they could live off and barter with rather having to rely on the worthless currency to buy them. So he carefully crafted a messianic myth about the resurrection of the medieval German Empire, which emanated from the Holy Roman Empire, to create a new Third Empire, the German word for which is Reich. This “Third Reich” would restore the national pride missing since the humiliation suffered as a result of the terms of the armistice of WWI.

There was no question when he was appointed Chancellor of Germany by Hindenburg in 1933, that Hitler was a far left progressive (socialist) until history was rewritten by those trying to disentangle their own alignment with his legacy, lying that he morphed into a right wing despot. His alignment with conservatives was a transparent attempt by both the National Socialists and conservatives in parliament to stop the surging Communists, their common enemy. But there were no illusions on either side. And the evidence is pretty convincing: Once in office, Hitler’s depression era blend of socialism mixed with co-opted private enterprise was attractive to other countries. Roosevelt started his first term of presidency in 1933 about the same time Hitler was appointed Chancellor. Roosevelt’s approach in his first term was strangely reminiscent of Fascism and Roosevelt even complimented Hitler’s mode of “organizing society”, citing it was “necessary to check this liberty for the benefit of the freedom of the whole”. There was a common spirit of collectivism among them, Hitler, Mussolini and Roosevelt, a coalition of business, government and labor.

This gets lost in the fog of history rewritten. Nobody doubts Roosevelt was left of center. It’s no secret he is pretty far left of center, considering his big government impulse. But it is also a fact that he was an admirer of fascism. These relationships get lost in history because Hitler was an inconvenient megalomaniac. Had he not embarrassed those relationships, I doubt the fascistic impulse would be so stunted among progressives today. I believe it has remained an essential yet latent impulse, and I believe it was subsumed into modern progressivism if there every really was a divergence.

Hitler Transformed the Unions He Didn’t Eliminate Them
Instead of allowing the left to propagate the lie that Hitler did away with unions, the truth is, he created the German Labor Front, complete with a swastika flag as its symbol, because he could control it, and barred the formation of future unions (such as Marxist unions). This would control competing political forces from using unionization for the purpose of consolidation of power, as he did.

The progressives in America painfully extricate their historic relationship with Hitler by assigning Hitlerian characteristics to members of the right in American politics. It is a “thou doth protesteth too much” knee jerk reaction, and it is attended by great animation and even violence. Not that the American left actively advocates government overthrow. Oh wait! That is exactly what progressives have been doing since the sixties. In fact, Andy Stern who is very close to the Obama administrator and a frequent visitor to the White House said, “Workers of the World Unite is not just a slogan any more, it’s the way we are going to have to do our work.”
Hitler was a leftist, a union supporter and wrote in his manifesto that unions were an integral part of the much needed social justice in Germany and the entire nation and its “chambers of estates and economic parliament” must be aligned with that ideal. (Emphasis mine). His entire power structure was based on this power to the people code. Along with universal healthcare, expanded animal welfare laws, support of healthy, organic foods and vegetarianism, a minimum wage, progressive taxation, and tight gun control — policies all shared by progressives from Roosevelt to Clinton to Obama, it is impossible for the left to separate themselves from Hitler. So they try a little “I’m rubber you’re glue” on the right. But it just doesn’t stick when you take a closer look.

http://libertyslifeline.com/2011/03/12/the-truth-about-hitler-and-the-unions/

Oh, and if you like Camembert and Balsamic Vinegar, you have no taste and really ARE a liberal...!