Is Obama lying AGAIN???

Midas,

Mark down this compliment. Your last two posts were lucid, intelligent, and propaganda free. If you would make logical posts like these one on a regular basis, the other members might actually begin to listen to you.

FWIW, I agree with everything you wrote in your post above.

 

Many would call what the corporate right supports is theft. Theft through exploitation, outsourcing, CEO salaries, and wall street to name a few.
MORE. No such thing as "enough" any more, is there? MORE...compliments of corporate America and the "business" mentality of the right.

 

Yet Mmm Mmm Mmm BO says the country won't recover until business is healthy again...investing their money & creating jobs!
Tom, if your path is the chosen one, do you realize everyone will be poor not just the lazy & underachievers? My bosses are wealthy people, good people but wealthy people. God Bless 'em, if they weren't doing well (they're not as well off as they were 2 years ago mind you but they have managed to prosper even under this oppresive regime) they couldn't afford to be paying me what they pay me. Think about where you work. Is the owner of your company some poor guy waiting for BO's next handout?

 

Well genius...sorry to break it to you, but everyone who is poor isn't lazy and underachievers. That's very "republican" of you to repeat the trickle down nonsense. Yeah...I've heard it all before...Reagan 30 years ago is when I first heard the modern day version of that crap, and yet here we are today. If they cant' afford to pay "what they pay....blah, blah, blah..." then they'll find some other schmuck to do their bidding..that's all, or better yet, keep the leftover chumps (now one body less) to pick up the slack and do his job too, while subtly hinting that they'll lose their jobs too if they squawk. Meantime, the management/CEO's get a pat on the back for cutting costs and then probably a bonus!! Managed to prosper?? LOLOL. Through things like outsourcing and mergers and massive job cuts perhaps? Or maybe bailouts? But you keep right on thinking you're special and it won't happen to you cause you're a "company man". You shouldn't be in here typing...you should be watching Sean for your next thought patterns.

 

So what do you propse? Trickle up??? Even BO is making the rounds admitting that our economy doesn't get healthy until business does. Wake up...liberal ideology hasn't worked, BO is starting to see that now.
Hmm- talking up business? Tax cuts? A surge strategy? Who does BO sound like to you?

And for the record, my employer doesn't outsource...hasn't merged...no massive job cuts...is a good corporate & community citizen...pays well...heck, maybe I am a company man- nothing to complain about, you should be so lucky then maybe your jealousy & class envy problems would go away.

 

Who is Sean?

 

The Fox noise mouthpiece who buys donuts for disgruntled Walmart employees.

 

Nah man...just take MORE for yourself! When you've got more than enough..take some more!! That's how you fix it! Hmmm...yeah Obama sounds like a republican. So then what's the problem?
Ummm...a "good corporate and community citizen". Well that leaves out those lazy underachievers from Walmart but...you just takin' that on faith or what? That what they told you? LOL

 

Most would call that capitalism. You can sit there and whine about how the evil republicans take all the money and don't pay their employees enough all you want but it won't change a thing. Your other option is to get off your butt and become and entrepreneur. Open a business! Risk all of your money and borrow more to get the business off the ground. Work hard and earn a measure of success that seems to make the risk worthwhile. After having spent years doing this, you will understand as a business owner that you deserve the lion's share. You will understand that no new venture is worthwhile without profitability.

The employees that work for these small businesses and even larger corporations aren't owed anything. They don't risk anything but expect everything. They relegate themselves to the lower and middle class and then complain because they don't have the courage to go out in the world and stake their claim. You strike me as one of these people Tom. You complain about the government bailouts as you sit on your couch waiting for yours.

If you don't like corporate America and the thought of being someone else's hired help for the rest of your life, become an entrepreneur. If you don't like the elected officials that govern our great country, then start a campaign, get on a ballot, and do something about it. You want us to believe that you have all the answers! Prove it. Stop playing Monday morning quarterback and join the game. Run for office. If idiots like Bush and Palin can make it to the top, why not you? Think of it this way, you have at least 40-50 votes locked up already with the truther movement supporters, you are ahead of the game so to speak.

 

Mr. Lehigh....strangely I find myself looking forward to your posts. Believe it or don't...I got no problem with profit from the scenario you describe and that you broadly try to paint as "capitalism"...somehow alleviating the responsibility of mess we're in today. I do however have a problem with GREED, or as you call probably call it.."business" that is so prevalent in today's society. Most big "businesses" don't risk anything except the stockholders cash. They extract. The merge, then extract some more until the belly of the beast has been reached, and then they extract even more. That's what I have a problem with....not Joe's pizza palace or Barney's Buttery Bagels. I'm talking about gagging profits that are divied up amongst the Soprano style profiteers, and amazingly, ther'e never anybody left around to take any responsibility for ANYTHING except the profits. THAT's what "business' is today. THAT's what I detest.

I agree they aren't "owed" anything other than fair compensation and the same goes for the company they work for. The company isn't owed ANYTHING except what they've agreed to PAY for...but that's not how it works..is it? You owe THEM something for giving you a job. Never mind that you've already fulfilled their profit margin quota...they want MORE, and if you kiss the right butt, you'll 'succeed". It's all a crock. Constant ways are devised in order to EXTRACT MORE from their employees WITHOUT having to pay them any more (and often even less)...that DESPITE much higher profits and the "go team!" sales pitch. One way to accomplish that objective is to "train" the employee that "enough" is NEVER enough. It's all a game and it's all BS via the profiteers, born of the Walmart mentality, that is so much the collective model for excessive profits. Everybody cuts each others throat over the piddlings spilled out of the collective corporate pockets on their way to their country club. The way it works is some CEO sits at the head of some board of unelected officials, punch in some numbers on their computer, and come up with a way how to best "profit" (rape or otherwise EXTRACT) from a scenario versus how to become an integral part of the bigger or smaller communities they should represent. How much can we get, as quick as we can, and in the least expensive way...no long term plan for society other than their balance sheets to be fudged for the wall street gamblers, which is all wall street is....a casino. So we keep juggling the numbers, merge this and chop that, then expedite whatever is left to some brown country (who we'll later bomb when they get too much like us) under the guise of "spreading freedom" (freedom for the elite to rape and pilfer). Ever notice WE (the US) doesn't produce ANYTHING any more (except drugs, sales ads for drugs, and foreign imports from brown countries profiteers can sell for at least 100 times the amount of the labor cost actually involved to produce them). That and we can drop bombs and EXTRACT campaign contributions via the corporate lobbyists paid to find ways to EXTRACT MORE of everything. Meanwhile...come play online poker and buy some alcohol.
Far as running for office or joining the criminal elite in a business venture I'll pass. I have a kid to raise and I don't want to have to explain to him how I was never there because I was away "conducting" business in some corporate users club. The system's been rigged for quite some time now as we are all learning together, until the bottom literally falls out, as it almost did here recently, and will again shortly.
Simple mathematics indicates that will occur sooner rather than later.

By the way Lehigh...you strike me as obsessively rich and spoiled. Meant to start out with that.

One last thing...On 911...I do have many of the answers that my fellow genius citizens don't have (or could likely even form the questions). On politics and the criminal workings of the corporate world or the entrepreneuraialististismsinicticsisis skills and their "come join us and you'll see how great it is to be filthy rich...I am still learning and I'm hoping I can teach my young son better than the "rape and pilfer" mentality seems to dictate today. If I ever do open a "business" that I can engage my son in though, I'm first going to teach him the definition of "enough" and crushing other's for self gain isn't neccesary. Hopefully he'll learn that and the future of mankind will have a chance (so long as we can keep the republicans out of office). Silly dream to dream a much less corrupt world I know but, dreaming is free 9until they figure out a way to extract that as well).

 

Tom

I grow on people after a while. Kinda like the Seinfeld episode when George whispers "Costanza" over and over again. Annoying at first, but then it becomes intriguing.

I agree that there is widespread corruption at the top of "big business" The actions of these CEO thieves is reprehensible as is the government institutions that find it more appropriate to arrest small time drug users rather than people who embezzle millions of dollars. This can all come to an end as soon as the American people have had enough.

But don't act as if the thieves are all at the top. The labor unions are as big a threat to our capitalist society as the crooks at the top. I would like to share with you a conversation I had with a bellman (shop steward) yesterday who asked me what I think of the new computer system to track employee productivity.

ME: "I think it is great, it will increase productivity, reduce costs, and improve customer service."
SHOP STEWARD: "I think it just an excuse to cut jobs."
ME: "Employees who work hard have nothing to fear about a system that tracks productivity. I know that you are a hard worker, I have seen you in action. What I don't understand is your undying defense of your fellow coworkers who show little to no effort at work and reflect poorly on the entire organization"
SHOP STEWARD: "You mean like the guys who start work at 4PM but don't actually start working until 6PM"
ME: "Laughing--Yes, them"
SHOP STEWARD: "Well, everyone should have a job"

I am not rich at all Tom. I would like to be rich someday, but I haven't found my niche yet. I wish I could get paid for arguing with you, I am pretty good at that. Spoiled? I dunno! Arrogant--yes!

 

People that are rich never think they're rich, but somehow always know how much someone should be paid (or not paid more accurately).
Tracking productivity is very corporate of you though. Someday...if you track productivity down to the fractions of a second, you might get there. Squeezing more out of fixed labor expenses is what it's all about. The old days of what's fair or reasonable, doing a good job for your company, and them taking care of you so you can take care of your family are long since gone. "Profit" IS THE ONE AND ONLY CONSIDERATION. Anything else would be "bad business". I'll bet you demand your employees be "available" whenever you deem they need be available too huh? I'll bet you've even figured out a way to squeeze some extra time out of them "unpaid" too huh?
Maybe straight salary? You know....limited dollar cost but UNLIMITED amounts of free labor? That's "good business' you know.

 

They are not my employees. The are employed by the same company that employs me. My job is to supervise them and maximize their productivity. I am good at my job. I am also honest and fair. Despite your primitive attempts to make productivity sound bad, it actually helps the employees as well, especially those in tip positions. Less workers in tip positions equals more money for each employee. As long as the staffing level is not reduced to the point where service suffers and detrimentally affects the gratuity given by the customer, productivity helps both the company and the employee. You might understand that if you would stop getting fired for being one of the guys who clocks in a 4PM and starts working at 6PM. Your position on this issue Tom is very clouded by your apparent hatred for everything republican. Whether you know it or not, you are criticizing hard work. Hard work is the foundation of capitalism. But if you want to live in a socialist society, you belong to the right political party, and certainly voted for the right guy.

 

I never really like Seinfeld. I don't think I've ever watched a complete episode from start to finish.
One more comment about your shop steward scenario. I have to agree with him on his initial comment as you might suspect. Let me ask you a couple questions though. Do you think that by tracking his productivity, you're encouraging him to do a better job? Do you not think he WANTS to do a good job, insuring your company's and ultimately, his own success? Why do you need to track him? I'd submit he responded in defense of others because he realizes that someday it might be him on the chopping block. I'd submit you're tracking him because you want MORE..not because he or anyone else isn't doing their jobs, but because you want more. An extra hand of poker or an extra NON-POS coin (not the POS ones I collect). Aren't you making a healthy profit already? I'd submit you're building present or future resentment, and if he's indeed an employee you'd like to retain in the future, you might want to tone down the tracking thing. If he isn't, then screw it....track away. Couple other questions...does he think, best as you can tell, that HE thinks HE is paid well and do you give decent raises? Something that an employee could count on if he does a good job, or are you more of a cost cutter kinda dude? I'd also submit that he would WANT to do a better job if he indeed is treatly well (as HE percieves it). Tracking his time , I agree, is nothing but a job cutting excuse. Something to punch in at the end of the year, seeing how many seconds that turn into hours and possibly days that you can shave off the bottom line, which is usually labor. You've already said you think he works hard, so of course you'd like to retain him. Why "threaten" him with the prospect that if he steps "out of line" he might be the next employee that you're having a conversation about with his replacement? I agree folks that do their job should have nothing to worry about, but that's not reality...not in todays climate. The days of PC's for everybody changed all that some time ago. Everybody wants a spreadsheet to ponder at while they sip their martinis. That IS reality. If the guy's producing, tracking him does him an ultimately you a disservice. It's nothing more than a veiled threat IMHO. Maybe you're thinkin'.. "Hey buddy I'm not talking about you.. I mean...THEM. You with me Bud?!!!" He's saying "Yes Sir Mr. Boss Sir". He's thinkin..."What an ass****!"
My theory I try and subscribe to is...I do my job. You pay me. If I do it well...you pay me more if you're doing well. If I'm not....then you fire me. No in between. Fact is, if I'm making you money and you're paying me well....everybody's happy. You want extra? Pay me extra. I'll give you extra.
Looking to cut costs or increase productivity? That's code for labor cost cuts.
Perception is almost everything...unless you're Walmart then, exponential profit is everything, rather the only thing.
Treating employees well and they you is a simple concept, but often too complicated for "business" to comprehend.

 

If you want to know what BAD Trade Unions were like then you should have lived in this country during the 1970's boy oh boy did we have some corrupt and self engrandising fools around them, and by the same token if you wanted to see the opposit you needed to live through the excesses of the Thatcher era!!

 

The libertarian party is a socialist society? I didn't know that. I haven't gotten fired for several days now either. Hard work...Wasn't Georgey always saying that right before a putt?
OTHER people's hard work would be foundation for capitalism, more accurately. Throwing the dice onto wall street's international crap table and then standing in line for bailouts is hardly capitalism.

 

I am confused by this reply. Were you saying that you vote, belong to or support the Libertarian Party?

 

Obama doesn't even know. He has no strategy. Why ,because he doesn't have a clue about foriegn policy i.e. jimmy carter.He may send acorn over however to do a little community organizing among the tailban. Obama will be the worst thing to ever happen to the US military. GOD bless our troops.

 

Tom,

You consider productivity an evil thing yet you clearly state that the employer should pay employees who do their job and pay them more if they do it well. But how does the employer know you are doing a good job, because the employee says so. The management who you despise are evaluated solely on the financial results of their departments of responsibility. You don't think an employer has the right to know what they are paying their employees to do? That is ludicrous. BTW, if you want to make more money, you work harder. Nobody has ever gotten a raise by saying "you want more work, pay me more."

In the end your post wreaks of ignorance. It appears obvious that you have never been a member of management on any level in any company. Your opinion is the same as that of the union worker who expects job security, fair pair, health benefits, pension plans (or 401K), and is unwilling to accept the responsibility of having his own performance monitored by the people who provide those things.

It is very obvious that you don't know a thing about the benefits of productivity and the mindset of the upper management in large companies. Well let me explain it to you. You fear that a productivity tracking system will be used as a tool later to cut costs. I have news for you Tom, those labor cuts are made based on decisions by upper management who sees the need to reduce expenses. They don't make a decision to reduce labor costs because of the productivity reports, that decision has already been made. They use the productivity reports to decided which people should be cut.

BTW, the little quips alluding to upper management drinking while working and treating the employees like slaves only serves to discredit your argument, not strengthen it.

 

Back to the original subject for a moment....

Does anyone here have an explanation why the website BO created to monitor the "success" of his stimulus spending (and spending, and spending) has outright bogus numbers on it? How can he have created jobs & spent money in areas THAT DO NOT EXIST?? Where's the outrage? You want to spend time creating conspiracy theories or blaming Bush for wars that were unanimously supported or cast dispersions on tv networks but when Obama spends money we don't have then lies about the results everyone just ignores it???? I think we need to look into where the money went! If he says he spent $600,000 in some district that doesn't exist, we need to know where that money is. If he says he spent $2 million dollars to create x number of jobs but the jobs aren't there, we need to know where the money went!
Does anyone even care or is this just one more instance where Obama gets a pass?