I guess not enough people have died in Iraq yet.

George Bush has decided (because he IS the decider) that he will take until after the 1st of the year sometime to come up with a new strategy in Iraq. I guess he doesn't want to interrupt any of his holiday plans or New Years festivities to bother with making a tough decision...Meanwhile, back here on Earth, US Service personnel, Iraqis, and families of either group continue to suffer from the first decision he made.
This delay is nothing less than appalling! It couldn't be any more of a slap in the face to all those that have given so much for someone who cares so little. Shame on you Bush!!

 

It's not a matter of caring or not caring. I'm sure Bush does not want to see U.S. service personnel and innocent Iraqi civilians dying, but there is simply nothing he can do singlehandedly at this point. If you were in his shoes, what REASONABLE AND FEASIBLE actions would you take to correct the situation? Keep in mind that the American public, the media, and the rest of the world are looking to you for a rapid solution, and will only criticize you if your solution takes any significant amount of time, a.k.a. more than a few months.

 

He mess around for 3.5 yrs, what another couple of weeks but another 100 soldiers and 5.000 civilians of Iraq - after all delay give him time pull head out of his a-hole.

 

He has insisted on acting "singlehandedly" or unilaterally since he was elected. Now he suddenly can't! You ask me what I would do and warned me that there are many eyes upon me waiting to criticize any delay in my plan of action. I believe that this countries options have been narrowed from few to none through inept leadership, poor execution, and an arrogant attitude that emanates squarely from the top.

I'll tell you what I'd do at this point, I'd get ready to accept the defeat that this administration's previous set of actions have ushered in. If you haven't accepted this by now you will have to accept it eventually no matter how distasteful you may find it. There is no magic movie-type solution that is going to turn this around in the future. Sorry!

The worst part about this situation is the mischaracterization and out and out lying about the reasons for going to war in the first place and the continued lying about the situation as it stands today. Don't sit there and tell me that everything in Iraq is hunky-dory and improving while a civil war is breaking out and expect me to trust anything you have to say in the future which is exactly what Bush has been doing for some time now. And now he wants more time because he wants to start listening to other opinions all of the sudden. Well, the clock is ticking, people are dying, and decisions need to be made. I just wonder if this self-proclaimed war president is up to the task. Thank God for term limits. :headbang:

 

People die in war...especially when the enemy has no uniform and they hide within civlian centers, and fire down on our troops from mosques who have to call and ask headquarters for freakin' permission to return fire to defend themselves. If you watch the History Channel's "Shootout" depicting detailed battles in Iraq, there was one battle where 3 muslim terrorists were shooting down at our G.I.'s from this terrorist place of "worship" and what did we have to do first? Call and ask permission to return fire!

If you compare our casualties against previous wars, well...during the Battle of Bulge alone, Americans lost over 19,000 killed! One American death is too many, but when you compare how our troop's casualities compared to past wars, our K.I.A. numbers are dramatically down.

When you fight a "law and order" war against islamic jihad, more American infidels will unfortunately die. We need to shoot these animals first and then ask questions later...let allah sort it out. If my son were deployed, I would tell to do just that!

Anyways...

Remember...even the gutless UN voted unamiously to use force on Iraq after Sadaam refused to allow UN inspectors access (until he could move his WMD's) to sites all over Iraq. Give him credit...he did a great job of hiding and moving these weapons as most experts believe these WMD's ended up in Syria...another muslim state supported terrorist country.

So think about it...you had a madman that had these weapons, USED these weapons where 1,000's of his own people were killed, and then tried to convince the civlized world he has disposed of the WMD's, meanwhile refusing access time and time again to these suspected site as UN inspectors were physically thwarted from doing their job. Hmmmm....

Or, let's put in this way...your house has been robbed before and later on, you are awaken by your downstair's window breaking. Do you investagate with a baseball bat and/or .45, do you call 911...do you do ANYTHING, or do you go back to sleep?

If Bush did not act and this muslim terrorist sponsored country hit us (as Sadaam promised he would do), I would be the first in line to call for his impeachment for his main obligation as President is to "protect and defend" the United States and our Constitution. If you see your enemy pulling back his fist to take a swing, you shouldn't WAIT to be punched.

Well...Bush ACTED and 2 out of the 4 state sponsored islamic terrorist countries have been dealt a crippling blow to islamic jihad. The trouble is that weapons, money, and new jihadists are bleeding into Iraq from the likes of Iran and Syria, who have been allowed to wage and support their holy jihad with impunity. Seal the borders with these islamic hell holes and Iraq may have a chance...otherwise more IED's, weapons, and jihadists will flow into Iraq to conduct their holy jihad for allah.


Remember...islamic animals have not threatened us, they have promised to take the civilized world down...starting with Israel and the "Great Satan" (United States). They have the resources to do this as their oil can now buy first rate weapons. Also, the koran instructs all true muslims to convert, enslave, tax and/or kill infidels...these people are just living a life set forth by their pedophile prophet (who married a 6 year girl, then consummated it in his 50's) who lived a life of "convert or else"

THERE or HERE...I am just glad we have brave men and woman that are killing these animals in THEIR backyard so they we don't have to wait for the next attack HERE. They will attack again...it is not a threat, but a promise.

Maybe after islamic jihadists kill thousands more on our soil again will the appeasers in this country wake up and realize we are in a war against an evil the world hasn't seen since the Nazis of 1938.

 

All these arm chair generals like Moen (and groan) make me sick! They have no plan of their own, nor do they have a solution that will not destabilize the region once they withdraw the troops.

All they can do is run their mouths off and make like the good democrats that they are, and make slanderous statements against "their" President. So rather than a "Shame on you Bush!!', it should be :loud: "Shame on you Moen!!!

 

The time for this rhetoric has past and this topic has been discussed ad nauseam. It’s no longer a matter of changing combat tactics. Maybe a few years before we started hearing phrases like, “Stay the course” and “Cut and run” while Rome burned may have been appropriate but we are facing a different reality today. Most of the informed members of this country realize this and it’s just a matter of convincing and entrenched dogmatic leadership that they have failed due to their own incompetence or more likely outlasting their term in office.

I’m unsure if this statement is supposed to be a look on the bright side or a “Hey, until we reach 19,000 deaths we’re still good” perspective. In either case it sadly dismisses the contributions and the very lives of far too many US soldiers for my tastes.

Again, more chest pounding rhetoric long past its usefulness. Even Donald Rumsfeld said you have to fight the war you have not the war you want.

You ridicule the UN in the same sentence you use it to justify your argument. Which way is it? You must be the last one on the planet that still believes the WMD story. Incidentally, these WMD’s that he used on his own people, where did he get them in the first place. Is he really a mad man or were we mad to supply him with these weapons in the first place and encourage his use of them against Iran?

There has been no link established whatsoever to Iraq before the war and terrorism. Even Bush had to admit this at one point. Now that we’ve attacked Iraq it has become a safe place for 1000’s of terrorists and thanks to Bush, there is very little we can do about it now. So, has he made us safer or less safe? I think it is the president’s duty to protect the people first and foremost. Bush has only created more terrorists and hatred of the U.S. so he has without a doubt failed in his duty. Are you still for impeachment?

It sounds like what you are saying is that Bush acted and each country is more of a training ground for terrorists now. From your description, they don’t sound crippled at all. In fact, they sound emboldened by their successes. He left Afghanistan too soon because he was so anxious to get into Iraq and he is losing both battles now. Poor judgment, bad leadership, and a less safe world. You’re right, impeachment is sounding better all the time. Impeached for incompetence.

The threat we face from the radical branch of Islam is real-No doubt. There are elements that would do us harm if and when they got the chance. We have been stupid (our leaders anyway) about the way we have approached this threat and they have gained strength and support for their hate-filled message. Acting for the sake of acting has proven ineffective and futile. Acting intelligently, with purpose and a plan to defeat this threat only makes sense. But again, this is a far different issue than what to do about Iraq.

Clear and decisive leadership is called for and we are handed delays, delusional predictions of victory, and an intransient administration lording over the chaos and bloodshed as they bristle with indignation at any suggestion that the war isn’t going exactly the way they present it to the public.

With all due respect, you have consistently maintained your position with regard to the enemy and what needs to be done. Now that the fight has morphed into an unrecognizable endless local problem, what should we expect from our proven failures at the helm and the mess they have left us in?

 

Sorry, but accepting defeat at this point is NOT AN OPTION! For the last year+, Bush's justification for continued involvement has been bringing democracy to Iraq. Obviously Bush failed, Iraq is in the midst of a civil war, so what can be done? You said it yourself -

 

I think in the short term this will go down as a defeat. But it is only round 1 and there is much more fighting to be done. Maybe with smarter tactics and smarter leadership we will eventually prevail. I believe that this stage is a total write off even as we are told otherwise. Bush is just trying to save his reputation at this point because as a lame duck, that is all he has left. That and blaming the democrats for losing the war. :yawn:

 

It will not go down as a military defeat for our troops can kill the bad guys and destroy their buildings with the best of them...it will go down as a defeat because of political B.S. within the Washington beltway and nothing more.

What a slap to our men and woman in the armed forces!

Anyways, in any war our Marines are taught to "Improvise, Adapt and Overcome". What a great motto...unfortuately many liberal appeasers loathe the military so much, they basically "tie their hands behind their back" that they can't do this ugly job effectively.

There or Here...you should never wait for an enemy who PROMISES you death and destruction to attack, rather...you kill them first...and face it, islamic jihad with 14 centuries of killing and forced conversions under the sword is sitting over trillions of dollars of oil to BUY the latest weapons to kill us.

It is all in the koran...if you read it, you can understand why they hate us so much.

 

this one earns you a graphic

 

Bush got everything he asked for from a Republican congress throughout his entire term. He was never denied anything in the way of funding, illegal and unconstitutional methodologies, or troops. Yet some how you pin this debacle on the "liberal appeasers that loathe the military". Can't you just face the reality that Bush and the Neocons simply failed to execute a war with any degree of competence. Even one of the chief architects of Neocon ideology said recently that there has never been a more incompetent group of players in the history of this country as inept as the Bush administration. A quote from the vanityfair article, "In a series of exclusive interviews, Richard Perle, Kenneth Adelman, David Frum, and others play the blame game with shocking frankness. Target No. 1: the president himself."

You can blame your favorite targets all you want but the truth is the blame rests squarely on your own parties leader. Sorry, thats just the way it is.

 

Because "General Idiot" is the sole occupant of my ignore list I rarely get to see anything dribbling from his head impacted rear orifice. I see nothing has changed and I haven't missed a thing. :hail:

 

Moan has just described himself completely. I couldn' have done better myself!

 

There ya go guardian, siince Your bush is above reproach you ought to print that up and pray to it.

 

I think that one of the main problems is getting the Police to be impartial & fairly honest, the reports I hear concerning the Army are much better, they seem to be taking what our Millitary are giving them on board. So folks there is still hope, for as more and more Iraqi units become effective then the number of US and UK troops will and should be reduced.
I still think that we should carry out Moen idea though LOL.

De Orc :kewl:

 

Thanks Danr, but I have to point out that 'bush' isn't MINE, as I never voted for him, but he is YOURS, MINE and MOENS President, and as such deserves the respect of this office.

 

..but worship is reserved for God alone.

 

Clear a decisive leadership is to put 50K more troops into the country, lock it down, remove al the guns and weapons, door to door, bring in about 75K cops from the US, and about 50K school teachers and a slew of medical workers and prepare for a 10 year occupation.

I'd be very happy with this, while breathing down the necks of Iran and Syria. It is all within our capability. The only thing that prevents it is basically the Cater branch of the Democratic party.

Ruben

 

It would take more American boots on the ground than what you have suggested (way more). Iraq has 20 million plus people and is geographically very large, also there are lawless regions. Saddam kept order with brutality, without that type of brutality it will be hard to keep order there. The Biden plan is the only good solution I have read

https://cia.gov/cia//publications/factbook/geos/iz.html