I can't wait until president Hillary starts to keep track of all your neocon posts

using all the Surveillance power Bush has aquired for her

 

"neocon posts"

?????

 

In Danr's world it's a crime to be one. I'll be honest I didn't know what a NEOCON was until joining this list. I'm still not exactly sure but I would venture a guess "New Conservative or Republican."

 

Thing is Mr Bush is not out of office yet LOL so he might be reading Danr's posts

 

Ben,

The word neocon was designed to mean "new conservative." In practice, they are not new and are not conservative. Most of the founding members of this branch of the republican party were former democrats and followers of Leon Trotsky. They believe in big government, support for the UN, IMF, World Bank, and other global institutions over our national counterparts, executive power, interventionist foreign policy, and using the military to achieve their goals. Since they aren't traditional republicans and have severely damaged the party in the eyes of many traditional supporters, they are losing support. A lot of what appears to be a rebellion of republican senators and members of congress against the Bush administration is really an internal conflict with the traditional republicans trying to regain control of the party from the neocon Bush administration. Lets hope they succeed.

 

WHEW, I'm not one...
Many Thnaks, now I know what a neocon is...

 

How the hell is that different from today?????????????

 

It isn't different from today because the neocons are in power. Bush, Cheney, Rice, etc... are all neocons, not traditional American conservatives.

 

Cloudy please tell me I read that right the Neocons are followers of Trotsky? Bush and his supporters are Trotskyite Because they believe in big government ?

Trotskyism is the theory of Marxism as advocated by Leon Trotsky. Trotsky considered himself an orthodox Marxist and Bolshevik-Leninist, arguing for the establishment of a vanguard party. His politics differed sharply from those of Stalinism, most importantly in declaring the need for an international "permanent revolution". Numerous groups around the world continue to describe themselves as Trotskyist, although they have diverse interpretations of Trotsky's writings

 

Bush and his supporters aren't Trotskyite because they believe in big government. They believe in big government because they have Trotskyite roots. You can prove this to yourself by doing a little research about the founders of the neoconservative movement and what they did before the founding. Google is a good tool for this. Wikipedia provides a reasonably accurate description of the movement in a single article, but somewhat understates their militarism and tolerance for big government programs like Bush's prescription drug plan and meddling in local education issues, in my opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservative

 

Yep in the same way it say's that some think it has it's roots in Wilsonianism with more of a libral leaning (Meant in the original terminology)
Do you honestly think Trotsky would have tolerated the World Bank or the UN that was not under the control of the party? He was in essence a Marxist or what was originaly known as a Hard (Leninist) Bolshevik otherwise he would never have risen to the leadership of the Red Army or prior to that People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs

 

Great. L. Trotskyi come into focus in this conversation about USA government. It funny that peopl know nothing about him but name discuss his politic in reference to current leader of USA. Here where what you think you know, I think I know, they clash.

What is written about figure of the past is subject to doubt, in your place and here. Because of people current times write for their satisfaction and not necessairly truth.

In summary, I cannot compare Leon Trotskyi with George Bush, or Albert Gore - because he different person in different time and place and different culture.

 

And of course dont forget a very different Political outlook

 

Irving Krisol and Norman Podhoretz were basically the "founders" of the neoconservative movement. In their early days, they described themselves as intellectual followers of Trotsky. There is no doubt that they put an American "spin" on things, and Kras is correct that things change over time. The only point I was making is that the neoconservatives are in no way connected to the traditional American conservatives except for the accident of name. That's why they do things that are so abhorent to the conservative wing of the republican party.

 

I know what you mean Cloudy but you read your 1st post and it has implications that Mr Bush & Co are Trotskyites LOL I have to say the imegry that produced was quite funny

 

That was not my intent. I was just trying to help people understand why Bush and company aren't true republican conservatives. In evolutionary terms, they don't share a common ancestor.

 

LOL just imagine them sat in small dank rooms wearing ill fitting suits sporting little chin beards and wearing flat hats LOL sipping black tea and smoking, plotting the overthrow of the civilised world On the other hand that could be the old Scicilian Mafia I am discribing LOL

 

LMAO, that's great. I love it...:thumb:

 

In USA history A. Lincoln was republican party, but I don't think he identify of republican party of G. Bush, since there is 145+ years and that party go from very liberal times to now call itself conservative.

View from here... They all look like they trying to pander votes by being in center. Every president after R. Nixon do this. Now R. Nixon was special case, in fact he really probably belong in institute being studied instead of being leader. He really was conservative, but not in political sense - only in sense of how he act.

 

I guess that would make that old saying 'what comes around, goes around'. or wait long enough and evereything will have switched positions. This is what is about to happen in 2008.

Poor old Richard, you shouldn't be so hard on the guy. After all, if you had a wife like Patty what whuld you be like? Think about it for awhile.