Have a very narcissistic Christmas everyone!!

Yeah, I probably did and I apologize for bringing up the past. Recent history should be rightfully forgotten and not used as a punch line in some off the cuff remark. We Americans like to forget the things we've done in the past so that we have the luxury of doing them again someday. Slavery, genocide, trumped-up wars, torture, internment camps, Jim Crow laws, lynching's, should never be made light of for any reason....unless people begin to deny that they actually happened. Then I think people need to have reminders thrown directly in their faces as hard and as often as possible lest we all forget and begin to find ideas such as these once again acceptable. If the discomfort we feel today at the thought of our past actions is the worst thing that we have to endure to keep us from inflicting much more uncomfortable acts like slavery, genocide, torture and the rest, then the discomfort will have to be tolerated if for no other reason than as a reminder of the legacy we have wrought on ourselves in the past. I guess that is really not much an apology after all.

 

You are right, it is not much of an apology. In fact all you seem to be doing is lamenting the history of the Democratic Party.

And have a very merry Christmas!

 

Tell me how your list of complaints against the United States differs from the behaviors of other governments around the world. Do the terms "pogrom" or "Kimberly Diamond Mines" mean anything to you? How about the history of racism in England, starting with the Crown's treatment of the Highlanders up to and including the treatment of blacks in the 20th century?

Are you an American? Just curious for my own reasons.

 

Are our crimes to be excused by the crimes of others or are we the standard bearers of what is right? Ask yourself if we should just be another country in the long list of corrupt empires or are we different? If you conclude that we are no different as you seem to, then there is no reason to believe in all the pride and greatness that we regularly espouse in this country. We simply say it to make ourselves feel good in spite of being no different than any other ideal that has come and gone.

Maybe, just maybe if we hold ourselves to a higher ideal we can actually live up to our own rhetoric. You seem content to just compare us to the lowest common denominator. I just don't buy that. It is a failure of ideals.

P.S. Born and bred.

 

You can't change your history, so why hate it? You can't hold what's already past to a higher ideal--it's already passed. Learn from it and grow and take pride in the good things that have been done. Self-loathing serves no purpose.

 

I have never advocated changing history or hating history, only remembering it. I am advocating for learning from history also so that we don't repeat it and I certainly take pride in the good things. I don't think "self-loathing" quite figures into that approach in my case anyway.

Your response in post #63 drew a contrast to how we act and how others have acted as if their actions excused our actions. That is NOT learning from the past. That is burying the past and covering the ground with only the "good things" so that acknowledging even recent events that weren't so good becomes difficult. Self-reflection is not a bad thing.

 

I ain't got the time to look up all the times you have done exactly what you say you have never done.

 

So just look up one. I'll wait.

 

Okay, so I say "Tuskegee Syphillis Experiment." What do you think? Honestly--don't try to say what you think I want to hear.

 

How about this?

That shows you both hating history and trying to change it. You could even add your remarks from last night, but then the good parts got removed.

Anyone interested in what was removed, send me a pm.

 

It was a despicable dehumanizing government funded stain on this country's reputation. The ends never justify the means.

 

I don't get it. You can't just post any remark and think that it is apt. It just doesn't work that way. Someone should have to told you long ago.

 

I thought that might just be over you head - or at least the change part. The hate is both blatant and obvious.

Please have a merry Christmas!

 

Precisely. But the way I see it, it was also the beginning of reform in human testing. Without it becoming public, we never would have known that such terrible events were taking place and would have considered Mengele to be the only person/scientist capable of such atrocities. Instead of being able to carry on using the argument "the ends justify the means," which you so aptly point out is not so, we were forced to examine our practices and change them. I know that it seems a minor thing, but one part of the reform is calling people involved in the experiments "participants," not "subjects." In addition, we now have informed consent, institutional review boards, and post-experimental interviews (particularly in situations that involve deception). It was a horrible event--but--my point is that we should never focus only on the negatives and that we should understand the learning and growth that comes from those negatives, if indeed positive events occur.

 

I agree. Leader worship and brainwashing of kids is pretty creepy. And the Jesus Camp wins my award for Creepiest. But, the one that took place in a public school setting wins my award for Scariest.

 

Did you know that we had our 1st Asian member of Parliment in 1892 he was a Indian called Dadabhai Naoroji As for the Racism shown against the Highlanders I think you need read up on who actually carried it out (a little hint read up on the Campbell clan)Sure we have had our share of racism in this country but we also have some of the strictest ant racism laws around We have had a Black precence in this country since the time of the Roman occupation LOLNpw if you wish to talk about the Colonial racism that is a different matter it happend and was a stain on our reputation

 

Sometimes "uncalled for remarks" are absolutely called for...

 

Showing your propensity for lapses of the ability to reason again? Figure it out, or don't, either way you'll still be a (deleted)...

 

See post #78 (assuming no posts will be deleted before you can read it). It applies equally to you.

 

That's a never-ending thing, climbing up Mt. Obstinate.