Guantanamo Bay Suicides, Another View

Another point of view concerning Guantanamo Bay. This time by the Saudi Arabian press. you see most of these fellows are just barbers who took a wrong turn on the way to Kandahr... :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

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http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7&section=0&article=83982&d=18&m=6&y=2006
Death in Guantanamo
Khaled Almaeena, almaeena@arabnews.com

The alleged suicide of three men held incommunicado — and illegally — at Guantanamo Bay for several years has brought the case of all the forgotten detainees there into the spotlight. The US government did neither itself nor its image in the world any good by setting up a prison beyond the reach of international observers and in clear contravention of what was, until then, the most sacred and most revered American rights and traditions.

I am angry. I am outraged. The Ummah and far too many freedom-loving people in the world have kept silent while the unfortunate detainees were being subjected to the severest mental and physical torture in what is simply nothing but an American-run hellhole. Abandoned by us all, these poor — and many — innocent detainees have endured a horror beyond imagining.

Disregarding international criticism by human rights groups and repeated calls by international legal bodies, the US continues to hold these poor individuals. The indefinite detention with none of the rights afforded to formal prisoners of war or criminal suspects has greatly blackened America’s reputation.

While unreservedly condemning the US government, we must also give credit to the many Americans who have not only protested and spoken out against their government’s actions but who have also offered help to the detainees as much as possible and who have brought cases before US courts.

The description of the alleged suicides of the three Guantanamo prisoners as “a good PR move” by US Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Colleen Graffy is abominable. “They are smart. They are creative. They are committed. They have no regard for life, neither ours nor their own,” said US Navy Rear Adm. Harry Harris. Graffy and Rear Adm. Harris stand shamed before the world for their puerile utterances.

There is no case. No proof. No evidence that any of these people were involved in any crime. Many were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. Take the case of five Muslim Uighurs en route to Turkey through Afghanistan; they were caught in the crossfire as the US Air Force rained down death and destruction and they fled to neighboring Pakistan.

They were first given hospitality by local tribesmen and then taken to a mosque and handed over to US forces who had paid the tribesmen $5,000 for each of them. As is well-known from those who know the history of the region — as the Americans most obviously do not — the tribesmen along what is now the Pakistan/Afghan border will sell anything and anyone for a price. Another detainee is a young Pakistani who had gone to Kandahar to teach in a school. He is now in Guantanamo. The deputy editor of an English-language paper is also being detained in what is no more than an American concentration camp.

The foreign forces and the anti-Taleban commanders in Afghanistan were — and are — ignorant. Anyone sporting a beard was deemed a Taleban supporter. As for the Saudis, many were doing relief work. A good number were encouraged to go there. I remember the Afghan war during the Soviet occupation; young Saudis were given encouragement from all levels to go and fight and help their Muslim brothers. The salaries of those who went were paid even when they were away. When the war ended, many who returned to Arab countries were viewed with suspicion. Some were jailed. There were no programs to reintegrate them into society or to help them adapt. Some families shunned their sons and brothers when they returned. Many of the men developed mental problems. Who then was to blame? We as a society should have accepted the responsibility and should have tried to do something about the problem. When poor innocent people were taken by force to Guantanamo and subjected to the worst mental torture, we did the Arab thing and put our heads into the sand. The Americans took their sweet time at reclassifying the sufferers as “enemy combatants” rather than prisoners of war since, as prisoners of war, the Geneva Conventions would have applied to their treatment.

The detainees were at this time being driven mad. In fact, the US authorities played a devious game.

They allowed Chinese interrogators to interview Chinese detainees who made threats against them and their families. On the way to Guantanamo, the so-called “defender of human rights” stopped at various countries where torture is allowed and left many people there for weeks in order to get information from them. All human rights principles and conventions were disregarded and shattered by the US.

Now 26-year-old Manie ibn Shaman Al-Utaibi is dead. Yasser ibn Talal Al-Zahrani who was only 17 when he was captured is now dead at 22. Put yourself, dear readers, in their shoes. Kidnapped, abused, tortured and not knowing for what. We should all be ashamed and I first of all. Where were we? Why was there no outcry from any of us? Why didn’t we ask those who claim to be friends of the Arabs in the US to intervene?

This is an indictment of the US and its inhuman policies. It is thus the duty of every Saudi to write to members of the US Congress, to legal bodies in the US, to the “friends” of Saudi Arabia and the Arabs and immediately ask them to speak strongly in favor of shutting down the concentration camp as well as for the freeing of the innocent detainees. And a full and independent investigation — that does not mean an American-controlled one — should take place as soon as possible and anyone suspected of foul play, at whatever level, should be held accountable.

Let us not be embarrassed or shy. Our voices should be heard so that pressure will be felt all the way up to those responsible for the barbaric tyranny so that they know we are aware of their crimes and hold them responsible. Let us make support groups for the families of those held in Guantanamo and for those who died there. Let us work to reduce the families’ sufferings and the misery of their uncertainty.

Let me ask the authorities to treat the returning detainees with care and empathy for they are our sons and brothers. God bless all those who died in Guantanamo and give patience and forbearance to their families.
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Bone

 

Some have been released from Gitmo. They were held for long terms without trial or hearing, and yes they were the victims of those who turned them for a reward. There are certainly many innocent souls in that hell hole.

http://www.thislife.org/
look for
Habeas Schmabeas (3-10) in the "complete archieve " section (free audio)

 

Now that American soldiers have been taken captive in Iraq, do you expect they will receive this same "harsh" treatment and be mourned the world over for the mental torture they will surely receive just before their heads are lopped off and put on public display?

 

The guys in Gitmo are NOT soldiers they are regular people like you, who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Listen to that link.

 

You're right they are not soldiers fighting in the uniform of their country. They are terrorists, wearing the uniform of none, pledging allegience to a diety and his chosen speakers and fighting for no country. They are not given the same rights as those who do fight for a country in a uniform under the geneva conventions of 1947.

 

This is an absolute lie. These are shop keeper and taxi drivers. Normal people NOT terrorists. Listen to the link.

 

And we all know that these poor victimized insurgents follow the rules of the Geneva convention and treat their captives humanely. Maybe they will say a prayer for them as they drag their headless bodies through the streets until their limbs fall off (Muslims treatment to US captives in Somalia). Then capture the kodak moment as they pose with the corpse and kick it a few times for the camera. I just feel so sorry for those poor Muslim captives and the horrors the American devils are inflicting on them. NOT!!!!

Along with the 2 Americans they also claim to have captured 4 Russians. Let's see now. Muslims Kidnap Russians, Muslim riots in France and thwarted Muslim Terrorist attack in Canada. If this is how they treat their supporters and allies I feel sorry for their enemies!! Look out Germany, you're next!

 

These animals are NOT entitled to any specified treatment under the Geneva convention. These are animals that hit and hide among woman, children, and their local terrorist base (mosque).

They are ununiformed terrorist soldiers...nothing more. They deserve hell for all they have done to this world. I for one would have gotten as much intell out of them and then executed them. After all, they WANT to die for allah and we should grant them their request.

It is NOT unreasonable...execute them. The world would be better off. It is the only thing islamic animals really understand. Otherwise, these people will kill us infidels at a drop of their koran.

 

These are not animals most of them are innocent normal people who were falsely accused by a crooked reward policy. Listen to the link.

 

To HELL with the terrorist captives!! This is WAR and they are POW's of this war until it is over! The more that commit suicide, the less that have to be convicted of war crimes later on.

 

Since when do Islamic countries have any respect for international law?? I’ll tell you when, when they need to use it to protest the treatment of one of their own. That is about as much use as they have for the rule of international law.

Listen, we can try to civilize war as best as we can but the truth is war is going to be fought with ever increasing viciousness and barbarism any time your enemy is of a tribal tradition or mentally live somewhere in the Dark Ages. For better or worse, the West has brought a degree of civility to the act of war over the past few centuries that have increased the length, the size in square miles, and the lethalness of combat. Islamic countries do not have this tradition and fight as if war itself was the goal not the peace that follows. Heck, peace in the Middle East is just that period between this war and the next war.

We glorify our soldier’s bravery and courage during times of war but our goal is peace through victory not war. Islamic countries glorify the war itself and only quit fighting when either there is no enemy left or they themselves are all dead. Mixing these two types of war styles inevitably requires each side to form new approaches if they are to achieve victory. Obviously they can not destroy us all and we can not civilize their approach to war.

If we were to fight the war on our terms with our values, we would lose because the enemy is willing to take it to the next level to achieve their goals and complain that we are being unfair and illegal under international law. International law was written long ago under different circumstances with the intention of civilizing disputes. If one side decides to attack civilians and non-military targets, then they should have to live with the consequences of their foray into the area of unregulated warfare and stop whining about human rights. Ill-Treatment of prisoners is an ugly byproduct of the type of war we are in and against American core values and I’d be pretty upset if nobody objected to it, but, we are doing what we have to do to insure our safety and help our troops achieve the victory that will allow us to live in the peace we all enjoy.

 

[QUOTE='Ol Silver]To HELL with the terrorist captives!! This is WAR and they are POW's of this war until it is over! The more that commit suicide, the less that have to be convicted of war crimes later on.[/QUOTE]
Listen to the above linked radio story. They are not terrorists they are shopkeepers and taxi drivers who do not even know how to shot a gun. EDUCATE YOURSELF, THERE ARE AUTROCITIES BEING COMMITTED IN YOUR NAME.

 

Moen you are drinking the Koolaid

 

I do think that you as a country are doing yourselfs no favours by holding these people in this fashion, it would be much better if they were to be tried and convicted by a Millitary Court then shot in the proper manner (Those that are found guilty of course) but they should be allowed full council at the trial (Millitary Council) and given every oppertunity to prove that they are innocent shopkeepers and Taxi Drivers, then shot (Just the Guilty)

De Orc

 

No Danr, he's seen the real world, the one that is beyond the confines of Arizona State University, or Northern Arizona University, or where-ever your at. He has paid his due's in the real world, and probably lost friends in the real world. One day you'll be released into the real world and when you are you're REAL education will begin...

Bone

 

BD listen to the story at the above link.

 

Fantastic post Moen...I highlighted the parts that hit home the most!

 

I'll second that!!!!!! 2-thumbs up

 

Danr, you simply can't go through life believing every conspiracy theory you run across especially the ones you find on the internet. I dislike just about everything the current administration has done in the last 6 and a half years but I am not blinded by that dissatisfaction enough to believe every lie told on the other side either. The truth usually exists somewhere in the middle.

Incidentally, I haven't touched Kool-Aid since I was about your age. :kewl:

 

Moen listen to the radio show (This American Life) linked above