Ground Zero Once Removed

''Ok.'' ''I will.'' ''Thanks for ''pointing'' it ''out.''.''

 

All of them.

 

Are you deliberately making it difficult for others to agree with you. Your last paragraph mirrors the sentiments that I have already stated in this thread. They have the right guaranteed by the Constitution. Disregarding a constitutional right due to emotions is a much bigger victory for the terrorists than actually constructing the mosque/Islamic Center. Once we allow the actions of the terrorists to change the foundations of our society, they will win.

However, your incessant refusal to admit that the structure is a mosque is just stupid. It is almost as dumb as the republicans who claim that there is no reason to build a mosque in that area because it is not a residential area and no muslims live in that area. The fact is that there are thousands of muslims who work in the financial district in lower Manhattan. The mosque in this center will serve as a place of worship for many of those people during their work day. Most everyone knows that Islam requires it's worshippers to pray 5 times per day. The mosque in this location would provide a convenient resource for the muslim community who work in the financial district. The reason for it's location seems very logical to me and I don't believe that the intent has anything to do with creating a monument of victory over the infidels despite the fact that many muslim extremists around the world will see it that way.

I am going to request that you come right out and admit that the building is a mosque. The following passage comes directly from the Park51 website regarding the facilities that the Islamic Center will offer.

http://www.park51.org/facilities.htm

De Orc already posted this but I guess you missed it. IMO, your failure to recognize that it is a mosque diminishes the validity of any other points you make regarding this subject.

 

So bottom line , you can’t. I agree some polls are BS. They were used for years by our left wing media(only media) to skew opinions to there way of thinking……..that aside, since you can’t produce it, your other points concerning this subject become more invalid.

 

Are all the muslims that work in lower Manhattan now, tapping their feet or crossing their legs, like little kids that need to pee in anticipation of the completion of this place of worship? You dont need a mosque to pray five times a day. And a place for muslims to pray is already located downtown, just a few blocks from this proposed site.

 

The people who work in lower Manhattan understand just how long it takes to go JUST A FEW BLOCKS in NYC even if you don't. I have friends who won't even cross the street to go to Starbucks because it takes too long. They may not NEED a mosque to pray but that shouldn't preclude them from having ANOTHER one. You don't need a computer to be one of the most annoying people on the planet, yet we continue to have to endure your posts on this forum everyday. And since you are not muslim, how would you know what they need to pray anyway?

I should add that you have already disclosed your racism on this forum so it comes as no surprise that you include religion along with skin color in your realm of discrimination.

 

Yes I do know how long it takes to go a few blocks in NYC. And it isnt long at all. I mean they would have to walk to this one also, right? Just because you have lazy friends doesnt mean everyone is like that. I guess only you know what muslims need to pray. I really dont give a crap if they build a mosque there. Or if they build it at 2 WTC. I dont see it as sacred or hallowed ground. Why in one post do you seem an opponent of it, but in these last few you seem a proponent. Do you think it should be built? And my racism is limited to just a certain few. And I thought I was THE most annoying person on the planet. And you dont have to endure my posts. Put me on ignore. Or dont read them. You dont have to endure them really. Do you?

 

I feel compelled to expose the idiots for who they are. Tom's royal clowness is undeniable and we already know that you are the emperor of nitpicking. Now it seems we know you are a racist liar as well. You claim that your racism is directed at me but we know better don't we. Before you decided to engage me in this thread, you answered a question posed by Moen.

This was your response

Since I was not yet involved, we have no reason not to believe this was a sincere response. It is obvious from this response that you are Islamaphobic. In your most recent post you claim that you don't care if they build the mosque there. That means you are a lying racist who is too afraid to even admit how pathetically evil you really are. Then you have the audacity to claim that I am being inconsistent on the issue. What a joke you are!

I have made it very clear how I feel about the subject and my feelings mirror those of the President's. I fully support the legal right they have provided by the Constitution to build the mosque in that location but do not agree with the wisdom behind the decision and firmly believe that building the mosque will only lead to further discrimination against muslims, something you know all about.

 

Youre a kook. Lighten up a bit. ''All of them'' could hardly be taken seriously except by the more retarded. I have no racism towards you. I like you. CUT IT OUT OK. But I'm not the liar here. You wrote you had to endure my posts. And that is simply not true is it? I cant believe you used the word EVIL. Very quakerish of you. Now go on and get even more vulgar than ever.

 

Like we couldn't have predicted you would play it off. Followed up by your typical homosexual fantasies that you have about me. And since you love to nitpick, I wrote WE have to endure your posts. You can call my honesty vulgar but it I don't think that a dishonest racist like yourself is really in a postion (SAME HERE ENOUGH OK) to criticize.

So what is your point in this thread other than to ruin the real debate?

 

We? Arent you a part of we? Explain how you HAVE to endure not just my posts but anything in this forum? Nothing dishonest about me chief. Pretty funny how a bigot like yourself(you did write that you would beat up those you thought were homosexual)can call someone else a racist. You call the President sophmoric and then you agree with him. Yeah, youre a real debator. Well some kind of bator anyway.

 

I don't have a problem with homosexuals at all. That was a conjured response to you calling me a nigger. I even recall another member of the forum pointing it out. I don't remember calling the President sophomoric. I never criticized the President's opinion on the issue. I only criticized his decision to make his opinion public. Another lame attempt on your part to spin my posts. Such a racist clown you are!

As a contributing member of this forum, I (WE) HAVE to endure your posts. There are so few members who actively post here that ignoring your trolling posts would make it very difficult to follow the converstations. Re-read your posts in this thread and tell us how many of them contributed to the original topic. WE know you won't do it because you are not honest despite your proclamations to the contrary.

 

Five. Five out of 12 of my posts strayed from the topic. You had three out of 13 that strayed. So what does that all mean? David has two out of three that strayed from the topic. So what? And NO you dont have to endure my posts. If you think all of them are so terrible, why bother reading them? You dont have to. Conjured? I see. You conjour, but I lie. Nah, you dont spin. I never called you a nigger. Show me where. Show me where I used the word nigger in reference to you. It is you that is dishonest. Post #4. You used ''sophmore year''. That would make it sophmoric. And isnt writing ''swinging at a pitch in the dirt'' a kind of criticism. Or was that a praise?

 

Your first post was on topic

This is off topic and Moen even responds by telling you to stay on topic.

Your need to nitpick supercedes Moen's request and you continue the off topic posting about the 2nd amendment.

Nitpicking Moen's choice of words. Hmmmmm! OFF TOPIC

MORE OFF TOPIC NITPICKING!

WILL THE OFF TOPIC NITPICKING NEVER END?

This one is on topic, as dumb as it is!

Some off topic nitpicking of Moen's decision to use quotation marks!

This would have been an on topic racist response but you have since stated that it was meant in jest. Jokes would be off topic.

These two were on topic.

The last three had nothing to do with the original topic and are all aimed at attacking me. You had 4 posts that were on topic. Two of the four were only on topic because you were trying to prove me wrong.

Are you claiming that all of the racially motivated posts you have made towards me were meant to be complimentary. You did not actually use the word but everyone here knows that it was implied, including you!

Now back to the nitpicking. Is it your case that I am dishonest because of my use of the term "sophomore year"? Let' see if you spin. Here is my quote:

For the last time Craig clown, I criticized the President's decision to make his opinion about the ground zero mosque public. Never did I state that I didn't criticize the President. What I didn't do was criticize the content of his opinion or call him sophomoric. The term "sophomore year" was simple used to denote the second year of his Presidential administration. I characterized his decision as a rookie mistake. Now while you may be sophomoric, I never used that word until now.

We await your response LIAR!

 

Dr Laura! Dr. Laura! Paging Dr Laura!

 

You are kinda paranoid there cutie pie. I write that you dont need a mosque to pray and you see it as trying to prove you wrong. What is wrong with you? And now its twice that you said I called you a nigger. Now you say I didnt but I meant to. And I told you that if I was gonna call you a nigger, there'd be no doubt that it is what I said. And I am not attacking you I am defending myself from your childish crap. You didnt criticize the President. But you did but you didnt criticize him only what he said. What a bunch of bull. You said he is in his sophomore year. Here is what sophomoric means............... of, relating to, or characteristic of a sophomore.(Webster). You say you have no choice but to endure my posts. When you know that isnt true. But you come up with some crud that you cannot keep up with a thread if you bypass any post. You keep this up and I'm not going to let you buy me dinner.

 

LOL,

I would gladly buy you dinner. Tell me what restaurant you want to meet. I will be in Vegas for business very soon. Let me know grandpa!

Now back to your continued idiocy. Sophomore year is a term used to refer to a second year. It has nothing to do with being sophomoric you ridiculous dude! For the very last time. I did not criticize the President's opinion as I agree completely with him. I only criticized his decision to make his opinion public. If you are too ****ing stupid to understand the difference then too bad little clown.

Explain these posts you racist ****ing clown

Like I said, even if you didn't use the actual word, it was implied!


BTW, Here is my favorite quote of yours from that thread

Truer words were never written. LOL!

 

Well, I had to think about this for a few days before answering. First of all, I did look at Steve's link and it very clearly says a "mosque" separate from the community center itself. Not that this promotional web page is the last word but it IS another example of someone calling it a mosque. The problem with what it is or what it isn’t really depends on how you define an Islamic mosque. I think Islam is poorly understood in this country and the issue of whether this facility is or isn't a mosque/community center with a mosque/community with a separate mosque speaks to that confusion very clearly. People are willing to believe it is a mosque for the sake of preserving their own perspective but at the same time they would refuse to believe that every airport with a chapel is a church and every YMCA is also a church. I think that this point has been beat to death and has overshadowed the real issue of why it matters whether it is a mosque or not. There is still no definable distance from the twin tower site that has been designated as "Muslim free" that I have ever heard of and I think that you'd probably agree with that. If you want to call it a mosque and I want to call it a community center we can both probably attribute our preferences to the voices we've chosen to listen to and leave it at that.

The real issue here is that a group of radical Muslims attacked us on 911 and what is being sold today is that any Muslim group is to be held accountable for the actions of these nut cases. As we have all seen, the right wing media machine spent months setting the tone and terminology of this issue and then took a poll and surprise, surprise a majority of Americans were against what they were lead to believe was a desecration of a rather sensitive piece of real estate. 911 is the most politicized issue of our time and the right wing has gone to the well one more time to try and squeeze one more drop of political leverage out of this national tragedy. As Brendan Nyhan put it:

"Rather than faulting the public for the weaknesses of human psychology, we should identify the media elites who deceive citizens with false information and hold them accountable for their role in fostering absurd myths."

First the right wing attacked gays, and then Hispanics, and then African Americans, and now they are focused on Muslims. The absurd myths just keep coming and get bought into one by one. With all the issues facing this country, is this really the conversation that will lead us forward? I think not.

 

Bottom line is that it shows great insensativity to the feelings of the survivors and those who lost folks in the attack In reality it is not about if they have the right to build a mosque (Oh and I know what one is I lived on the same street as one for 6 years that was used as a community center during the day taught religion at night and had prayer meetings 5 times a day but if it should be here. Those who planned this must have known there would be a backlash from the public at large to such a idea and that it would generate more ill feeling towards the muslim community as a whole yet they still decided to go ahead with the project, Why?
I will ask you this if you wanted to anger the american public who are seeing news reports on a daily basis about muslim attacks and plots against America and it's interests, were would you pick to build a Muslim mosque/community center
Allready there are calls across the USA against other mosques been built (dont believe me check it out) all this has done is to polerize both sections of the community.

 

There are a lot of things in this world that are insensitive or offensive to someone. That is the price of living with freedoms. You have to deal with it.

Are they smart to build it there...probably not. But, really, if you wanted to build a place to change people's perceptions about your religion, I can see that being a good spot in some ways. "Look...here we are...just a bunch of peaceful people practicing our religion...just like the Catholics at their church down the street."