Government Healthcare discussion- In depth

Not me. I pay 16% in taxes. I have a very good accountant.

 

Try to keep up, won't you.
1) The dems control both houses of Congress and the White House, therefore Obama has the numbers to get anything passed that he wants passed
2) The simple fact that the dems haven't rolled over for him on this healthcare fiasco is proof positive of just how awful & unpopular the proposal is.

Get it now?

 

David I do think it is you who is rather slow, now if as you say he controls it all then why has this not become law on day 2 of his administration? Now I shall try to educate you a bit (OK I know it is hard for you) NOT ALL DEMOCRATS ROLL OVER ON ORDER You can not have it both ways David, either they obay him to order or they have freedom of choice there are no other options no matter how much you try to twist things.
Now I know that is a hard concept for you to digest but do try

 

An interesting tid bit: Howard Dean said that the senate dems will use reconciliation which will prevent a filibuster thus allowing a bill to pass with a simple 50 votes (vp decides a tie).


"

DEAN: No, actually, the Senate Finance -- this has already passed four out of the five committees. The Senate Finance Committee has said that, not the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, but you need 60 votes to get it through.

DEAN: We need 51 votes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you're saying...

(CROSSTALK)

GINGRICH: But if you want to see why the -- why a substantial number of Americans are very frightened, that's a good example. The Senate rules on passing reconciliation were clearly designed for budget items.

If we're now going to try to rewrite 17 percent of the economy, life and death for every American, by pretending that massive health reform is a reconciliation item and ramming it through with 51 votes, first of all, I don't think -- I think a lot of Senate Democrats (inaudible) I think the idea of stripping the Senate of its ability as a Senate to operate with some sense of discretion and ramming through something on this size will go down very badly with many senators, will go down very badly with much of the country.


"
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...ich_howard_dean_debate_health_care_97832.html

This is a big deal since 50 votes are easier to get than 60. Looks like the horse is almost in the barn.

 

You better hope not. Do you really think you are going to get top quality care? Hey everyone should get healthcare. But quality care should be paid for.

 

You do not seem familiar with the current situation. I have seen the cost that my employer pays for our ins double year after year with the current system. Health care is 17% of GDP right now, it will be 50% soon if we do not act. Look into it ask someone you know who has employees about insurance, this is not working.

 

I pay over $400 a month to my employer for my coverage. I have yet to need it. All I do is check ups, typical visits etc, in other words no biggie.

BUT, my wife ran up about 500K so far with only my monthly premium and a 1K out of pocket per calander year. My family is very thankful for the coverage we have that provided the care we needed when we needed it.

This healthcare issue is becomming a debacle.

We have unions vs Americans. Misinformation police. Snitch websites and email accounts. You tube this and you tube that.

Now, if I remember correctly, BO promised the most transparent guv ever. He promised 5 day internet postings before votes. What did we get? 300 page ammendments the night before the vote.

He promised no lobbyists. What did we get? It is laughable.

He promised no earmarks.....what did we get? Earmark after earmark to get the " iffy's " to sign on.

I am not against this because it is a Demo plan, or an O plan. I am against this because it is a bad plan.

The amount glassy eyed supporters of a plan that has not been read and deciphered, understood and discussed has me almost laughing. It is becomming laughable to watch the supporters of this as they become more desperate and cornered.

I have never seen such blind partisanship. Just remember folks who are for this plan. One day, YOU will be on it. Be careful what you wish for.

IF this was a good plan that included tort reform, insurance reform and redtape elimination, I would be all for it and would back BO 100%. I have demonstrated that. I am for the plan, not the person who proposed or implemented it.

This is not a healthcare reform folks, this is a power grab of unprecendented perportions. Again, be careful what you wish for. Read the 1200 pages, it is available in many places, but here is an easy one, myu\ local radio station.

No bull, no hype. The actual bill in PDF form.

KFYI.com

No link, you'll have to go there yourself.

 

This bill may not be perfect (because it does not exist yet). But the fact that those other 10 congress people do not get to add their insurance company bs into it will help

 

Jack, I do not see that link.

 

Hey I like my plan too. But jeez Jack. Dont you think half a million is alot? For chrissakes, a hospital charges 150 bucks to take your temperature. And if you say this plan has not be deciphered understood how do you know it isnt good? I wish my plan didnt cost so much. But I wish more my doctor didnt charge 230 dollars a visit. Thats the reform I'm looking for.

 

Craig
Of course that amount is astronomical and could be lowered with the proper reforms. Yep, you pay $11 for a Tylenol. I am dead serious, I broke my arm about 3 years ago, my hospital bill showed $22 for emergency room " pain pills" ( 2 tylenol). That kind of abuse can be stopped without a total revamp of the insurance system.

If we paid cash, the bill ( my wifes )would have been 1/2 that. I know that because my wife is in the business of personal injury. Yep, an ambulance chaser. Tort reform and limitations on lawsuits and damages would greatly reduce the amount of crap we pay for.

Border enforcement and illegals using the emergency room as the family doctor would also greatly help.

Here is the bill Dan, the current bill that we all are talking about. I'll also post it in another, fresh thread. It is in PDF format, but it is the entitre, every page UNAMMENDED .

When you hear " misinformation" , look it up yourself. You'll be suprised at the source of the misinformation. Party's aside, we all need to know what the F we are supporting or against, don't we? Lets all be honest with ourselves and read the bill we are discussing.

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

 

The bill does to exist! People are bringing it to the town hall meetings and reading off their questions. Where you been?

Obama is out there flat out lying about the plan now. He made the outrageous comment today (in hopes of fooling a few of the stupidest masses) that people deserve to have the same healthcare plans as congress has. That is flat out, made up rhetoric to try to fool people!! Time and time again he does this!!

You should listen to Rush these days Danr. It has turned into a full 3 hr program about the healthcare debate. You NEED to hear the actual soundbites from Obama's press conference. I'm talking amateurish double talk. I'm talking the train coming off the rails! This isn't Rush talking. This is Obama, past and present, contradicting himself in HIS OWN WORDS!!!

In one moment of grandeur and trying to wow the crowd with insight, he mentioned how UPS and FedEx are "doing just fine!" "It's the Post Office that's got probelms!" What are we supposed to take from that comment? I thought he was trying to talk up how GOOD of a job government does?

As Rush stated several times today, when someone asks a hard, direct question about the bill, N-O-B-O-D-Y will respond with a firm explanation pointing out the wording in the bill that proves why they are wrong. Only diversions are being used by these people. Scare tactics explains every question away!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like salesman trying to sell a product that doesn't exist.

I firmly believe health care in this country needs to be addressed. But I never imagined it could be tackled THIS BADLY!! How Danr can be satisfied with this mess simply boggles the mind. I mean, you come out and say the bill doesn't even exist but yet you support it? Huh?? Are you just imagining how good it could be so you've decided to support it? This bill is designed to get every free-loader and encourage all illegals to get full coverage.

If this passes, I will not be the LEAST bit surprised if my health insurance goes up but my quality of service goes way down. You can't bring SO...MANY non-producers and illegals on to a plan like this without other people paying dearly.

I've seen so many bad aspects of this bill so far that what scares me the most is what we don't know that's in it. Apparently some are not concerned though because it is 'something'. Easy to please some people I guess.

No employer is going to keep private coverage if this gets implemented. They will bail these plans before the ink's dry on the bill. Besides, no insurance company is going to be able to compete with a government agency that does not have to make a profit. So whatever the debacle turns out to be, count on being in this mess with everyone else. Remember that this plan is not good enough for your congressman to be on.

 

Oh yeah. Don't forget that we were supposed to trust him that their would be no lobbyists in Washington and no earmarks on any bills. We were supposed to trust the enormous stimulus bill which mainly went to the likes of Goldman Sachs. That was supposed to save millions of jobs. Instead, we lost millions more jobs. But that's ancient history now. Now it's time to trust them on Health care reform. I mean, c'mon. Is there not a pattern developing here?

 

I am pretty sure that is the house bill that will be totally different when the senate gets it. There is no bill that exists today that will be in any similar to the law.

 

C'mon. Blaming border jumpers for the shape our healthcare is in is kinda stupid. As is the high cost of malpractice. I think greed has more to do with it. Heres an example. An airman went into a base hospital to have his gall bladder removed. A pretty standard operation really. Guess what. And they dont really explain it; this kid wound up losong both of his legs. How in the hell could that happen? The surgeon did something like nick the guys femor artery, and they waited six hours to chooper him to a hospital 30 minutes away. No this poor fellow cannot sue because he is in the military. But if he was in the private sector; dont you think he should sue the living piss out of that dopet MD? Wouldnt you? And there were no beaners in that ER. Hospital shouldnt be in the business to accquire other hospitals or diversify into pork bellies. Christ why does everyone want to have it all? I see nothing wrong with illegals getting care at ERs. You'd think the hospitals would welcome it. 150 bucks a shot; they dont care who walks in.

 

And Danr; its a dumb idea to try to socialize healthcare. If you cant afford good coverage go on medicaid. and thats what i'm in favor of. Those who cannot afford healthcare should get it for free, or on a barter program or something. You just like it cause you are a bull headed democrat. I tire of you defending something you know little about. Just as I am with republicans dismissing what they have little knowledge of.

 

Did not say that would fix it, only that it is PARTof the problem that can be fixed.

 

How?

 

Craig. Put on tyour thinking cap, I know you are capable.

Tort reform.

Do you have any freakin idea what we are charged for DR's to to carry malpractise insurance? Do you think THEY pay that? No, we do.

Do you think that all the tests ordered are for our interest? No, they are so the Dr's cannot be accused of ignoring an issue, not checking all the possibilities of any diagnosis, and basically, it is to protect THEM, NOT us.

You get a freakin cold, they take blood, they take lung xrays, a throat swab, they take every test available ( not for us ) , but to protect themselves from those ******* trial lawyers lying in wait in case some problem occurs.

Eliminate that crap, costs will go down.
Will the system be fixed? No, but, a small fraction would be improved. ANY way to improve is good, as long as it is in the right direction.

As for illegals, who have a pay the hospital rate of about 5%......That is self explanatory. We pay that in higher bills. Many border state hospitals have gone bankrupt and closed over this. Don't make me post lionks. Do some research for yourself.

If I have to post it, you will look like a fool. Research bud, research, Aside from your ISP, the internet is a free resource, use it to your advantage

 

I'm not making the claim. I think you are wrong. If you went into a hospital for removal of a kidney stone and wound up without any legs. what would you do? I'm sure you wouldnt go..Oh well, accidents happen. and I'm pretty sure you would be happy with a 125,000 dollar maximum settlement. Be honest. And you know you dont have to partake in any test the doctor suggests. and I dont mind looking like a fool if I am wrong. You think I'm here to impress you? I'm not like some here.