Friendly question for all athiests (and those that are having a tough time believing)

Phoenix, what is the name of that book? I will prolly check it out at the library.


stainless

 

Posted for the benefit of our resident condemner to hell.

 

That would be "historicity," for future reference.

So you think that these references, the first being part of a contemporary refutation of a hebrew charlatan, the second making reference to any (more likely literal) king of hebrews, confirm that the son of god walked amongst the unclean 2000 years ago.

I do not doubt that there were many hucksters making a living by fooling the foolish in Ancient times. And perhaps, though meaninglessly, one roughly fitting a portion of the jesus myth, minus superhumanity, BS'd his way around the desert. I do not have reason to believe your religious texts have even a kernel of truth regarding the supposed supernatural.

You would want better corroboration than extra-christian sources which scoff at christians in order to support your case.

 

Phoenix

 

It's a book I got from a course I'm taking from Sunset Bible University, where you have to take the course to get it, but I can see if I can get one for you man.

Phoenix

 

True but or perhaps that is proof of evil existing, discounting those who make a poor choice at the wrong time, but if there was no God could there be an afterlife and if there is no afterlife why should I not live for the moment and care not of others. That may be the majority thought line and then rape/murder/ thief may be the norm. The Id would take over.

 

Actually the fact that evil exists, and even spouts occasionally herein, is proof positive not only of evil, but of good.

 

It will be interesting to see whether your arguments improve when higher education has enhanced your intellect. So.. if you're 14 now, how long until you're a grad student?

In the meantime, I will take care (as you suggested), since atheists don't have the benefit of guardian angels.

 

Point me please to where I'm doing wrong? Where is my argument faulty? The way you are putting, (imo) and the way I'm taking it, that I'm a kid that has a weak argument? I believe it'll be 2 years when I get my associates degree, and another 2 for my bachelor's. Please point me to where I'm doing wrong, so I can improve and do better. Thanks man. Take care.

Phoenix

 

On a compleatly seperate but relavent point LOL Napoleon was not defeted by Wellington but by a combination of Wellingtons troops standing there ground and the timely arrival of Field marshal Blucher and his Germans

 

Brain cramp on my end Phoenix. Not you it's me!

Guess what I was saying is that books are powerful and so is the "legacy" of Jesus.

Yes, I'm convinced, and have been that he existed.

It's how books, basically ANY books, portray him.
This is where mankind starts to screw it up and we've been doing it for centuries.

Not just to Jesus and his words by the way.

 

It doesn't matter if you believe in Jesus or that he ever lived. It does matter that you at least know him, the son of God. If you know what he was like then you can see the way of God. Then you should assume that God would want us to be Jesus like. The way of Jesus was to love enemies or better, love everyone. So if you can love someone who you know hates you then you're reaching to be close to God. God is all powerful, God is love.

We are given free will to bless or distroy our souls. Hate is the distroyer. Compassion is a healer. Talking religion and condeming athiests is hypocritical. But naturally most people are hypocritical, lying, cheats, who will foresake their own honor just to keep from admitting fault. Eventhough foregiveness is another devine attribute of our God, and his son.

Truely our intellect has out grown our spirit. For we can easily justify all our short comings and yet pretend to persume that we will be greeted with open arms upon arriving at the clearing at the end of the path.

You shouldn't have to believe in faith. You should know!

Allen

 

are you saying that the french lost to some germans. yeah like that would ever happen

 

There's always a critic. Lol, kidding, thanks for pointing that out man. :thumb: (we need to get that smilie on here, lol!)

Phoenix

 

i;m sure that there was a man named jesus back then (as it was a common name) and I'm sure he was great mayB even a very large politcal figure who rose through the ranks based on the good deeds he did but nothing more. What happens is that people heard about something he did and told others and they told others and it snow balled things got changed and altered to be mroe exciting. we all do it in our everyday lives think about a story you told someone about your weekend for example you mighta added that you drank 12 beers instead of the 8-9 u actually did just seems more impressive. This info was recorded as fact but there is no proof of any of the miracles with any solid basis of fact.

 

All those before and after him that make the same claim. I believe he probably existed but if he did exist it was in a time of superstitious beliefs probably due to the pressures brought on my man's inexperience in living in societies and his need to gain control over those societies. Religious beliefs are a very handy tool for controlling the masses. An amazing man probably, God, unlikely!

 

I think the real question is, what would make you think some guy named Jesus that lived 2000 years ago is god? Why would someone put this label on him. If it is because of all the stories about him...there is nothing to recommend those stories as truth. They are just tales...rising from the dead, healing people, etc...etc...it is all very fantastic and all very much out of the realm of reality as I know it. I have never seen such things, only read them in books...and I read a lot of things in books that I don't believe are true. Al these people were there and witnessed these miracles...great for them, I am supposed to just believe with not a shred of proof? that doesnt seem very fair...I would have no problem believing he was god if I saw him rise from the grave, or work a real miracle. I have just never seen anything, heard anything, experienced anything that would lend validity to this tale.

 

Phoenix

 

If you deny these piece of history, and say that they aren't reliable, why then can't you say the same thing about Nero, and the horrible things that he did? About the Herods, what they did? How do we know how those things happened? From pieces of history, like the pieces that I have provided above.

History is written by those who won in some sort of struggle. You won't see anyone disputing that Alexander III of macedonia wasn't great becuase he beat all of his enemies and their scribes became his, hence you get a biased view of history. In the case of christianity they beat out the original ruling religion of paganism which was later demonized (hence penatagram is related to the devil, sacraficing goats is now associated with satanic ritual yet both were merely the loosing practices of paganism). They changed the meaning and how we view things like symbols and replaced it with their own. Also back in those early times simple tricks were held as sorcery and magic yet all they were are simple illusions and trickery nothing more. For simple miracles jesus could have preformed some of these (water to wine) and others are merely an embelishment of the truth to gain followers. Making one fish into food for hundreds could have started out as asking for a fish and then telling those around him for that boys generousity he will buy eveyone one fish. This gains supporters and in the end will likely replace the money u spent on the fish plus extra. this snow balls as people talk about such generousity into he bought 1000 people fish and then he made it from 1 fish ,ect and then its transcribed that way. there is no proof of any miracles that do not have a scientific explination to disprove them.

 

I have a saying "History often forgets the vanquished". Look even more recently at the US Civil War and how much of that was glossed over.