Forgive student loans

Very true. And if you are a college grad, you are already so far ahead of the game in life that the military way of life would be a big step down. Leave it to the people who are not so fortunate in life or to those for whom it is a calling.

 

Do you really believe that? Wow. That is unreal.

 

Oh he believes it. Don't worry though. Eventually in the end no one escapes reality. Even RWers

 

I'd agree on most parts of your comment, but have to dissent somewhat on the jobs issue. When the prospects of a life of hardship dawn on a poor person, the idea of a steady, years-long paycheck is very attractive. Yes, I understand the consequences of that statement; that the young rarely comprehend what they are in for by joining the military, that despair and the resulting mental issues are a horrible price to pay for some who can't bear the pressures of military life, that killing someone or having a friend die while on a mission is a trauma few are prepared to handle... but for some, joining is a choice between a life of despair or a life with hope.

Just to be clear, I'm not military, though I have family in the military. I also believe that joining the military isn't the best option for most young people. I'm only saying that for some, it's not a bad idea. Poverty can be just as brutal to someone as military-life, but the military can give a poor person a chance at a better life they normally wouldn't get.

Oh, and great posts by the way!

 

There are lots of jobs in the military that are not particularly dangerous, physically or mentally, even if you go to Iraq and Afghanistan. But the lifestyle can be challenging for some people.

 

I am not advocating military services as the end all be all but your statement illustrates part of the problem. But a college grad who is unemployed or greatly under-employed facing the dim prospect of improvement in the immediate future also saddled with a large student loan really are not far ahead of the game in life. Sometimes it takes a big step down in expectations and actually taking a smaller step forward to get ahead of the game in life.

 

They certainly have a tremendous amount of opportunities in life open to them compared to an inner city or rural kid with a HS Diploma or a GED. That is true even just getting into the military...which is truly the avenue of last resort for some people in that situation.

Without fail, a college grad is going to be picked over an HS grad by any recruiter as long as each person qualifies physically. They will do better on an entrance exam too as well as get a better military job.

 

I know its a little late but Time last week had the 2010 numbers and I just got to that article.

Unemployment Rate
14.9% - Less than HS Diploma
10.3% - HS Diploma
7.0% - Associates Degree
4.7% - Bachelors Degree

So, in essence, the BS Degree unemployment rate in this recession of recessions is at a rate that would be pretty normal for everyone during better times.

They also had the median income rates listed and the BS Degree meant $20K a year more than a HS Diploma. Average student loan debt is around $30K. If someone were to live like an average HS Grad for a while, it probably wouldn't take that long to pay it off at $20K a year payments.

 

I think we all can agree that a college education is important. The question is who should pay for it, right? In the current scenario, either the recipient of the education pays or a lender that advanced the funds (with the original expectation of being paid back) is left to pay. On the surface the choice seems obvious who should pay.
If we go further, what impedes the recipient of the education from being able to pay back their obligations? Maybe this is what should be addressed? Was the tuition too expensive? Was the education of poor quality thus rendering the recipient unqualified? Were expectations of future employment prospects & earning potential exaggerated? And how much of this is due to the economy?

 

Well, how about extending the availability to get schooling free? By that I mean anyone can get 13 free years (Kindergarden through 12th grade)... it's not that big a step to offer kids the chance to get an additional 2 years of college right? I mean, we are agreeing that college education is becoming more and more a necessity, why not extend the option to get 2... even 4 years free. You could tie that to an obligation to work in the community, either as a volunteer or to make a wage (for food/lodging/etc.) as necessary.

 

My question to your idea would be who is going to pay for those 2 years of school? I believe the schools should be required to participate, to share the pain. Right now the schools charge outrageous tuitions + profit from things such as books, parking, housing, food, etc. So far every suggestion has been about who, other than the school, should be burdened by the rising costs of education. I think the schools need to participate.

 

It's just a rough idea, but I'd say the same way current (kindergarden through 12th grade) schools are funded. The other thought is to not make it mandatory, but to be an offer. It could be tied to say a choice between getting 2 to 4 extra years of schooling or 2 to 4 years of paid work (as in current youth programs but expanded into more fields).

Just a thought really... an idea on how to help the young get a better start in life. But yeah, it's an additional cost to tax-payers.

 

Why not ask the schools to participate before asking the tax payers to pick up the tab? Maybe schools should be forced to provide the first year's tuition & fees free of charge, the student can pay the 2nd year out of his pocket if he wants to keep going then and only after the student has experienced college life & is on track to graduate should we extend the offer of student loans.

 

I'd think some of that has potential too. I'd really like to see more work programs involved in the system we have, maybe in concert with additional schooling. When I was in college I really appreciated the Work Study program, it allowed me to work 20 hours a week (if I remember right), and it was flexible around my classes. I'd like to see more of that kind of program, but like we all know, the costs for a semester would still be far too high for most... even under a program like that. Costs have to come down, or it's just going to be the wealthy that can afford higher learning.

 

moen sure is quiet on this subject, isn't he?

 

Actually, I hadn't even noticed him being absent.

 

Well, in his absence, I'll refresh your memory that he did explain why colleges are becoming more expensive, that ultimately it's due to Republicans in Congress who, over time, have whittled down funding. It's really not that difficult to see, unless you don't want to look.

If you are more patient I'm sure Moen'll be willing to explain that to you... again...

...might even be 'nipple-worthy'...

 

That's been the whine, err, I mean the line but is it accurate? I don't think so. Tuition isn't going up because Repubs are blocking aid...remember the dims control DC and BO always has Executive Order to fall back on, thus far he has gotten everything he has asked for...so don't fall for that. The schools are getting greedier & greedier, bottom line. They profit from tuition, book sales, food sales, housing, parking, athletics, etc. That doesn't even take into account alumni, endowments, grants, gifts, fundraising and everything else. Let me tell you, I graduated from 2 schools. One public & one private. Neither one is shy about asklng for gifts or asking alumni to help with fundraising.

 

There's something I could agree on, that schools do ask for too much money to start with... but then again so do hospitals, lawyers, businesses, etc... so they're not alone in their greed.

 

His absence on this subject is odd....I guess if it gets into his own pocket his views change a bit, huh?