evidence for a god

I'll try to do this as best I can, lol :

You're right, it doesn't make Him real. IMHO, it doesn't matter if you believe He is real or not, He does exist. I can't find anything that proves He doesn't exist, but I do find many htings that does prove His existing.

Huh? This I honestly don't get. If I believe the answer to a math problem is such and such an answer, and I am wrong, does that make all my other answers wrong? Me, as a human being, I get it wrong, does it make all the other human beings wrong?

True, a lot of faiths have similiar meanings, but the baptists aren't the same as the catholics, or the Jehovah witnesses. They have there differences, which make them different faith. But the Bible says there is one faith. Finding that faith, the true faith, is what is right.

There is plenty of facts, and plenty of proof that God exists, but I can't find proof that says God doesn't exist.

Gotta go out for awhile, but I'll be back later to finish up what I was saying. And please don't take me as rude or obnoxious, I'm just giving my point of view and opinion. I thank you for yours! :thumb:

Phoenix

 

yeah, thats basically it.

what if I decide to believe in the christain god, but yet Allah(muslim) is the true god?

stainless

 

Phoenix, please show/tell me your proof.

stainless

 

Hmmm, good question. I am not very knowledgable on the Muslim faith, so I can't give much insight there, but I can hopefully help with Christianity.

Christianity, is the belief that Jesus is the Son of God. Which you probably already know. But you're worry is also that He didn't really come, or that that was a myth?

Well, I can't really make you believe, but I can possibly offer you somethings that might help. (All this is just my opinion, and I try to go by what the Bible says, not what my interpretation is of it)

There are the Biblical accounts of Bible characters, and there are also the historical. That the Bible characters were real people. And there is also things that prove the things that happened, happened.

Here's a link about historical info on Pontious Pilate. If I remember right, there is a mention of him talking about Jesus, about how he "Never met someone with such authority, ..." (Don't remember the whole quote, but some digging will probably find it)

Also there are many other things throughout history mentioning the apostles, and what they did, etc. Just try researching a bit, it might not come up soon, but you will eventually find some stuff.

I'm sorry about basically repating my first post, new at this a bit, lol. And no one please take offense, I am just trying to offer my opinion, and what I know of this. So, stainless, lol, I'm sort of struggling with a block, could you just post some more questions that you are have, I can try to help how I can. And I'm sure others will throw in there opinions too. This thread is awesome, I enjoy reading all the thoughts and etc. :thumb:

Phoenix

 

ok, thanks for the help and heres five questions:

#1. Scientifically, is it possible for a ressurection to happen?

#2. If I do except god, isn't it still a long shot to get to heaven, what if I choose the wrong religion.

#3. If everything was perfect, how did Satan even get the thought in his head to try and take over heaven.

#4. What was Eve doing by the tree of knowledge and Wisdom in the first place?

#5. What is the one thing that makes you god stand out against all the other gods that have become no more (greel gods, you know, Zeus for example.)

Bonus Question: What in the living pig is theistis evolution? I've read about it and it makes no sence. And it has no evidence, it connot be considered a theory because it's just an assumption.

 

For Phoenix and Stainless

A few observations here. Take them as you will.

For starters I doubt anyone can "prove" the existence or "non existence" of God (or Gods).

It's what you believe, how you were raised and how you seek the "truth".

This is where I have big problems myself. If it's so cut and dried why are there so many faiths and what is the true faith? Does anyone really know?

Who did really write the Bible? How can we prove it? Was it given to us by God or did we do it for Him? Did we do it for ourselves about Him to explain the unexplainable?

Anyone that looks hard enough can find "proof" of God. Anyone that looks hard enough can "prove" there is no God. Once again it's all in interpretaion and beliefs.

NOTHING IS EVER PROVEN.

One can go one way or the other and then, even that, gets broken down into viewpoints.


Now, as a sidenote, I'll tell you why I feel so strongly about this. I am the youngest of five children. My dad wanted us all to go to church. Which church I'll never know as he was NOT a religious person until his later years.

Mom said no. Let them make up their own minds and I thank her to this day.

I was married in a Lutheran church. Should I decide to start "worshipping" they seem alright to me. My wife has gone through several "religions" and found (for herself) that "religion" is not the answer.

My oldest brother has gone Baptist (who knows which offshoot). Good for him - he's still my brother by birth.
He rarely talks with the family. That's a damn shame.

I once asked him if "his" way is the only way. Did God put all of the others on earth just to end up in hell? Yes, he responded.

I find that hard to swallow my friends. Interpretation and religion again.

Now, should I pick another religion and hate him because of differing viewpoints?
No, he's still my brother and mom gave us choices. Just so happens we don't agree.

Bottom line is there are no answers, there is no proof and nobody is %100 right.


If people would pull their heads out of their asses for a while they just might realize it.

clembo

 

I think everyone just needs to decide what is right for themselves.
Don't believe in God? It's skin off my nose!
Do you believe in a different God than I do? So what? I respect your right to choose.
If everyone would just work hard and do a little good along the way, the world would be a much better place!!

 

Stainless I think you want us to try and make up your mind for you, but sorry we cant do that. If you dont believe in a god how can you believe in satan, heaven or hell You are asking impossible questions we can not prove to you the existance of god nor can we disprove it. We can but have our own core of beliefs which we can if you want share with you.
Look at most Christian faiths today and you will find they all originate from the same root, Muslims also split from a main branch into a number of diverse offshoots as did Judaeism. Unfortunatly I believe that it is human nature to question and sometimes change things to our own advantage.
You mention science but even that has changed over the centuries, in the middle ages and even up to Victorian times they believed illnesses were spread by bad air, then someone discoverd germs LOL Surgeons woudnt wash there hands before operations etc!!
Now as for resirection we know that it is possible to bring back someone who is clinicly dead it happens all the time, the only difference is the time period What was eve doing by the tree of knowledge ? well what do you think she was doing she was doing what you are now doing looking for knowledge. As for if you get it wrong LOL I would imagine that as long as you have lived a good life then god would forgive you supporting the wrong team

 

You're welcome, I'll see what I can do to help answer them:

To be honest with you, no, I don't think so. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Science isn't always right, do not get me wrong, it is very useful, and right most of the time, but not all the time. Like I said, God is not bound by time, science, etc. Now people might ask "But what makes Jesus' ressurection so special, the Bible says other people were raised from the dead on different accounts" But, what is unique about Jesus', is He stayed risen, and alive. Atleast, that is what the Christian faith teaches, and from what I find, that is correct. There are many references that lead to the death and ressurection, that don't make sense, until put together with the ressurection. I can try to find you some passages from the Bible if you want.

Honestly, not really. Choosing the right faith isn't as hard as it seems. You just need to find the one that follows what the Bible says, not what they, or someone else "intreprates" from it. Also, IMHO, you can't accept bits and pieces, and twist them to your advantage. And then ignore other verses. You have to accept and follow the whole thing. So, not to sound corny, but my best advice to you is to read the Bible, and pray to God to open your eyes so you can see the truth, and what is right.

Honestly, I have no idea. I'm honestly not sure if that is totally biblical, or just a myth. The passages I find about Satan betraying God are in Genesis, when he decieved Adam and Eve to eat of the fruit. And in Jude when he argued with Michael the Arc Angel, about Moses' body, because Satan wanted people to worship it, instead of God. But to really answer your question "why", I guess because it was what God's plan was. I am not trying to say God did this and this for this reason, as I am not Him, and don't totally understand myself. I worry about speaking for God, and not being right, lol, as I am not totally sure. But I honestly think the safe answer to your question is power, and greed. The Bible says "The love of money is the root of all evil", and where "money" probably wasn't the thing at that time, I do think the devil got greedy.

Lol, I don't really know. My guess would be she was passing by, and saw the serpent there, and he coaxed her over, but I am not totally sure, so I can't say for sure. Good question though!

Again, not to sound corny, lol, but the answer for me is the emotion in the words, and the love behind them. And, honestly, I can't see where the things in the Bible could have been put together by humans. There is just something about it, the way everything fits and flows together, it's just mind boggling. But, that's just me, lol.

Stumped me with this one, I have no clue what it even is, lol?

Hope some of this helps, and I like answering questions, keep them coming. I'm not saying I can answer them all, but hopefully I can help with some.

Phoenix

 

thanks a bunch for the help,

but: If you read the Koran, it is pretty amusing too (at least what i read in the past 2 days)

also,
theistic evolution is the same as darwinism, except it was guided by god.

stainless

 

Thanks for your input clembo! I enjoy reading it, and I appreciate you taking the time to type it, likewise for everyone else. And no one please take me as obnoxious, I'm just trying to answer the questions I think I can help answer:

Because IMHO, people will have a falling out with one faith, have a dispute or a disagreement, etc, and go off and start there own "religion". What "they" think is right, and it goes on from there, continuing domino effect. IMHO, the "true" faith is the one that follows the Bible, and doesn't add or take away from it. But also keep in mind, just because they have different names, doesn't neccasarily mean they aren't the same faith. Some churches I think believe the same thing, the only difference is something like one chooses to have musical intruments, the other doesn't. Just that, or something else. I'm not saying all are like this, but some.

I believe it was men lead by the Holy Spirit of God. God inspired if you will. It was men I guess that wrote down the physical words, but it was God that told them and lead them to what to say. Does this make sense? And I believe it was Him that did it for us, so we can know what we must do to be saved, and how to lead a truly happy life.

Very well said, and I honestly agree. But my thing lol, is when people try to "prove" there is no God, they end up just twisting things to there own advantage. Same with people trying to prove there is a God. It's a never ending cycle IMHO.

Your mom sounds like a very smart woman, thanks for sharing that!

I really can't say either way, as I don't know the Lutheran faith, but I think it all depends how they follow the Bible, and in what way. Seems like your wife found something that just didn't seem right, but I could be wrong.

Whoa, man, I am sorry to hear that. I don't want to point fingers, but I've heard that about some Baptists. Not all, please don't take me as saying that, lol, but some. It's a sad mindset, and it's what many believe. I don't believe in the least that God wants anyone to go to hell, and I don't believe He put all those religions there. To be honest with you, I believe satan is the cause of so many religions. I believe it's him that causes people to get upset at others, and makes people stubborn where it's "there way or no way" even if it contradicts what God says. And I'm not saying so and so is going to go to hell, it is not up to me to judge.

Very well said IMHO, and many people unfortunatly would end up doing that. I'm glad to read you're not those other poelpe.

I totally agree. :thumb:

I hope some of this helps, and please feel free to disagree, lol, I'm not perfect, and I could be wrong on a certain area. Thanks for letting me talk!

Phoenix

 

More than welcome! I love to help honestly, lol. I've never read the Koran, lol, but I bet it is in some areas. Ahh, okay, I don't study evolution yet to be honest with you, so I honestly didn't know there were different types. Anymore things you have on your head?

Phoenix

 

that's it really, but I still don't know what to do.

one more question:

How can a loving god send us to hell to burn for all of eternity.

I can MAYBE see it if you wouldnt even accept god if he was provin, but how can he send someone, who at least tried to find him, but got stuck somewhere in the mix with all the other false gods and evolution, to hell. Or, There are some people that believe in the trinity and some that don't. If I did believe, I already came to the conclusion that there is no trinity (no 3 in 1, god manfested himself in the flesh). So, if one did believe, do you think a loving and just god could send people to hell, when his book is so messed up, his followers don't know what he is talking about half the time.

If he is all knowing, he could have done a much better job in writting a book. You don't see this interpretation of the scriptures going on with any other religion other than christianity.

I think that we all can agree, this god could have done a much better job presenting his existance and what he stands for.

stainless

 

Again if you read the bible all that god asks is that you repent your sins and believe in him, then you go to heaven, and hes only a cuddly wuddly god in the new testament in the old it's all hell n damnation

 

Good question, and I wll answer it later on man. But I think I do have an answer for you.

Phoenix

 

Okay, let's see if I can help too with this one man, hope this helps:

God is an all loving God, the true meaning of love, and I firmly believes He loves all. Except heaven isn't a place for people that don't want to go, or people that don't take it seriously. He wants people in heaven, that want to go there IMHO. He wants people that will do all it takes to get there. He wants all to go there I'm sure, but He wants them to want to go. Now you might be asking yourself "But of course everyone wants to go to heaven!" But do they? Going to heaven isn't a right, it's something we have to earn, and by that, we have to follow Him, and truly follow Him. That means learning all we can that will please Him. Doing His will, and finding the truth. He doesn't want robots, He wants people that truly love Him, nad want to serve Him. And if you ask Him to help you, then I'm sure He will.

Now you worry about not being on the right path, or you choosing the wrong faith. But that won't happen IMHO, if you read His Word like De Orc says. You have to read it, and find out what it was originally meant to say, and what it means. The definition of a single word could help immensly. Like what baptism means in the original texts, and how it was done, love, etc. (Just a tidbit, love actually had 3 meanings I believe back then ) So just go to His Word, and go to Him and talk to Him about your troubles and concerns, and if you truly want to serve and follow Him, then He will most certainly help.

Keep in mind, it might not be immediate, but He will IMHO, when He feels the time is right.

Phoenix

 

Thank you Phoenix and I respect your opinions as well. We are discussing here not arguing and that's good.

Just a few points.

"IMHO, the "true" faith is the one that follows the Bible, and doesn't add or take away from it."

This is where things get messy and always will. Goes back to interpretation my friend.


"Your mom sounds like a very smart woman, thanks for sharing that!"

High school education but very wise. Love her with all my heart. A real "mom".


"I really can't say either way, as I don't know the Lutheran faith, but I think it all depends how they follow the Bible, and in what way. Seems like your wife found something that just didn't seem right, but I could be wrong."

What I found appealing in the Lutheran faith was just that. Go to church, worship and go home. Be yourself.
No converting, no door knocking just a laid back worship. Might not make sense to many but spoke a lot to me. Never know I may be Lutheran someday.

My wife is much more of a religious person than myself. Not that I don't think about it but she digs into it.
She interacts with many faiths online and they ARE NOT all Christian based yet strive for the same goals on so many points.
Guess my point here is good people are of all faiths or even non faiths (that would probably be me at this point). If people are good to other people and treat them with dignity they are better than the ones that "shun" them for having differing views.

Religion really is a mess. Guess I've been going at that point for a while now haven't I?

clembo

 

Phoenix.

I dn't think you know how many times I've heard this answer.

Sorry, but I can't agree.

I would love to find god, problem is, he made it nearly impossible to get to him. I am so close to believing, but I can't because Allah, and Buddah sound just as good.
What makes your god so much better than all the other god's that have come and gone? (see Zeus, Possiedon, Mithaism, ET.)

The only reason why christainity is so popular is because the Ancient Roman's forced people to believe, otherwise it was there life. And then England did the same thing during the midevil times. Now, it's just mostly carried on by tradition.

as far as the interpretation thing, see what clembo said above.

BTW: I just want to thanks everone for not bashing me, if this were myspace forums, I would've been in a serious flame war right now.

 

Stainless I am not sure what you mean by the Romans forced people to believe?
The Roman empire had a mass of gods, most of the greek gods became roman with a new name, and it was the romans who made christianity a state religion but and this is a big but, it was not done for religiouse reasons but for political gain. And what did England do during the Medivil times? You mention the old gods and talk of them passing yet in reality they have not as we still talk of them today, did you know that most European churches are actualy built on pagan sites of worship and a lot of the christian hollidays incorporate pagan festivals

 

Steve, I think he means the Roman Catholic Church after Constantine, but then again you knew that too.

You're Friendly Vestal Virgin Marauder
Ben