Democrats are bad...

Here's a pic of my ballot from my cell phone. How about you?



That was better than being an ignorant lemming and voting for exactly what the establishment/TV tells you to vote for. And until every single American decides that's what needs to be done, you can expect the same game. If you haven't figured it out you yet, they aren't going to allow the best candidate for America on a ballot anymore. There is no choice but to write in now.

I wasn't worried about canceling out somebody's vote. I wasn't picking the best of the worst. I voted for someone I believed in. My vote at least told somebody that both candidates were garbage. Yours on the other hand, accepted an undeserving, unqualified, blatant lying, elitist, making YOU the fool!!! People like you are to blame. And I will bitch about it all I want. I rejected the status quo this time around. You did not.

So, I'd like to kindly ask you to "F" off and you "put a sock in it".

 

Since all issues and platforms can't be discussed here let's go with one major one.

One issue that you can make the case for as a strict 'left-right' issue is abortion. The right has constantly lined up as anti-abortion. The left has constantly lined up as pro-abortion. Granted each side doesn't 100% agree one way or the other...but the majority of the right is anti-abortion and the majority of the left is pro-abortion. This is a major platform that the right stands for.

How bout you Tom, you seem to be a man that loves his family and cherishs life..that knows right from wrong.

Do you line up with the brain sucking lefties or the pro-life righties?

 

I was going to pop in here Sunday night with a brilliant commentary, but I see this thread has gained some legs. I will now need to reread the entire text and rethink my post.

I donna wanna looks stupid lol.

Good posts guys. I will retry tommorow when alcohol free

 

Vess...I agree with you there to some extent. I'd vote for Ron Paul in a heartbeat, if he actually had a realistic chance of winning. He's dimensions better than what the right or the left has been able to produce, and in a better world, you'd be correct. Voting for the best candidate possible. Agreed.
But....if the best candidate has no realistic chance of winning, which means infinate dollars to sponsor them, (and our recent supreme court decision just locked that up permanently), you'll NEVER get the best possible candidate elected. It ain't gonna happen. I know that it's a crummy way to have to vote, but if I vote AGAINST the group that I truly believe are the worst of the worst, then that means that the group I select is one vote further away from being elected. If I vote for the best candidate, in this case Ron Paul, (who CAN'T win), then I've just gotten what I deem to be the worst party, one vote closer to their election because I'd thrown my vote away. It sucks but that's the "corporate and capitalistic" system that I always hear the right raving about. $ = EVERYTHING. It ain't gonna change until the money influencing power and inherant corruption of cash goes away, and that ain't likely to happen anytime soon either. (especially with the right in power). That's the system. I don't like it but that's "playing the cards you're dealt" (another of the right's popular lines when defending the rich and calling everybody else whiners).

I'll go "F" off now.

 

Left/right support/opposition is a staple of the two opposing views of that touchy issue, I agree.

I can tell you that before I had a kid, I wouldn't have thought twice about "very early" term pregnancies and their not being a really big deal as far as whether they were actually more than "technically" a life form. I've changed my views on that after having gone through the ultrasounds, and the other associated things a couple goes through during a pregnancy (more accurately that a FEMALE goes through). I used to think life wasn't really valid until relatively late term. I realize now that was an incorrect and ignorant assumption. Life most definately is there for many months more than I thought. So in that sense, I actually agree with the right on that general stance. Life is life...aborting it is killing it. That's very wrong.Agreed.

Here's where I have some differences with the right however. First and foremost, I still have a hard time believing life "begins at conception" as the right claims. Cognative function, feelings, all that, cannot possibly exist in the newly joined sperm and egg. Exactly where that process goes from being a microscopic blob to actually becoming something else is where I take issue. That's the first and most pertinent to my view I would say. Secondly, I don't have to carry a baby, so I have a hard time understanding what that's like, and what it would be like for some particular woman to have to carry that to term, in her particular circumstances. So I really don't think I have any business telling her what she needs to do because of my morality.

Having said all that...I think abortion is wrong, once it is an actual baby. What that line is I do not know, but I do not believe that if a gal gets pregnant, and she chooses to not be pregnant anymore, and she does it relatively quickly (again I do not know what that line of time would be, but I'm saying like with the first couple of weeks I would guess), then I don't see the problem that the right has with that issue. You're be effectively terminating elements, components needed to form a baby.

If you want to get really ridiculous about it, and using the right's mentality, wouldn't you be able to say that allowing a man's LIVE sperm to die, outside of him, somewhere other than in a woman's womb, is murder? Wouldn't you classify sperm as life? Same principle in my view. (not trying to be gross or funny..just trying to point out how overboard you can get in deciding what you classify as actual life).

That's my current view.

Oh..one last thing. The right can differentiate between what is life and condemn the person to hell, but have little issue bombing the hell out of whoever, anywhere in the world, and then claiming they're somehow more "moral" than the people they judge? Is that called enforcing democracy or simply forcing it? Where's the morality of that? The two seem very inconsistent to me....as does the right.

 

Our last election we were faced with McCain, Obama or Paul (a guy we knew wouldn't win).

Says a lot about our system doesn't it?

 

What is it Tom , you don’t know or you guess it to be a couple of weeks? Kind of straddling the fence here. There has to be a beginning. To say that it happns 2wks., 4 wks., 4 mnths. is just subjective conculutions, or spin, to fit your own justifications. A more defined beginning is when the sperm pierces the egg. This puts the totallty of life into motion. How do you know when function and feeling exist?

I didn’t want to get ridiculous about it, but since you had to put the spin to it, lets.

If your ridiculous sperm scenario was true then we would have millions of mass
murderers per day to trillions of victims. Can you identify? Sperm cannot be life without an egg. I don’t think 2 sperm can get together and make a life or 2 eggs for that matter. Sorry rainbowers.

Oh …about the last thing…only God can condemn a person to hell……but you do make the “CHOICE”’s that may get you there…..so you better be right.

As to your other ridiculous thing…..the people being bombed are the ones that made the choice to murders others in the name of allah, a dictator, an emperor, etc.
It’s called self-defence…as in Pearl Harbor….going after thug Islamic terrorist…or a nazi totalitarian.

To suck the brains out of a fetus is the most cowardly form of murder ever.

By your words it does look like you fall squarely on the side of pro-life, thus the righties side. If I am wrong please correct me. A simple yes or no will do.

 

I see where you are coming from and I tend to agree with the forcing Democracy part. I became quite non-interventionist between my first deployment and my last.

But, is it really better to be consistent and say it is ok to kill unborn children and also ok to kill living children? I mean, Obama - pro choice - was in office for 3 days before he ordered his first drone attacks that killed Pakistani kids.

 

OK, having had a cpl days to think, I'll make an effort to p-ost MY thought.

1st of all, I cannot tell you that the GOP is good. I will not even try. They are the party after all that gaving us that stinking dirtbag McCain as a candidate for POTUS. They also gave us W who spent us into oblivion ( we thought at the time ), now we know what oblivion really is.

I will say why my conservative values are better than liberal or " progressive " values and a better system of governing.

Primarily, I am a capitolist and free market guy to the max. I have started and sold 2 business after they became succesful, both with the help of hard work, long hours and tax cuts. Hell, with my last small busines tax cut, we added an employee and a company truck. How many Americans does it take to build a Ford truck? I am also an employee. High on the food chain. We are not even THINKING of hiring anyone !!!! ( Why? because we dont not know what the rules, costs and taxes will be).

Capitolism makes it possible for each and every American to acheive greatness and wealth and financial security. Those with drive and effort achieve this thru hard work and better education. Capitolism gave us the comforts of the 20th century, and yes, many many folks got stinking rich. Right on !!!! I want all of us to be stinking rich.

I want government out of my life, just like our founders. Get the f out of the way and let private enterprise go at it. Let the weak fail and the stong survive. Government regulation has led us into an Auto crisis, Energy crisis, Water crisis. Capitolism gave us the Henry Fords, the Thomas Edisons and the farmers who deliver us food. All 3 things I mentioned have been regulated into oblivion by the feds. We cannot even grow freakin vegetables in California because regulations say we must save the minnow. Our cars cost 20K because government regulates saftey concerns, mileage requirements , etc etc and our oil costs so much because governments says we cant freaking drill our own oil !!

( a true capitolist would build a safer, more efficent car on his own to outsmart and out sell the competition, so he can get richer, quicker, and hire more people to build his in demand product )

I want government to only provide infastructure and keep us militarily stong. I'll wory about my own retirement and healthcare thank you.

I will not discuss abortion, which I am against, because I do not think it is the governments freakin business.

My values are such, because the left is against all things I am for. You may not agree, but thats why I am not a liberal. I do not need government for anything other than to build my freakin roads so I can go to work, and to make sure I am not invaded by a foreign enemy while I'm working.

Conservatives want everybody rich, liberals want everybody to depend on government.

Thats why conservatism is better.

 

I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard this line of bull. Your voting method is the definition of insanity.

Is the glass half empty or half full? Is it one vote lost causing a negative action to happen or one vote closer to the right candidate getting elected? YOU RUN THE PEN IN THE POLLING BOOTH. You people act like slaves to the MSM.

People need to give up your line of thought and not worry about all the morons. Just do the right thing. It felt good voting for the proper candidate for a change. I don't care how futile it was. I'd rather look at it like all the millions these clowns spent on hours of tv adds I had to listen to, was all a waste on me. A complete waste. They didn't buy my vote. The TV didn't tell me who to vote for. What's so hard about that?

If I didn't have the option to write in a candidate, I wouldn't have wasted my time going there. Why waste your time? Do you think you really accomplished something helping get B.O. elected? Or voting for McCain? LOL! You played right into their hand!
I am not a part of that group. I am informed. I'd feel ashamed to be a part of that group. But that's just me. He has made a fool out of everyone. On so many levels! It's so disgusting people can't even face the facts and admit it to themselves. Sometimes you see it on this forum.

I'm glad though. The country needed it. Granted, we'll waste another 4 years, we'll still have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, Guantanamo will still be open, the banks will still have free reign, the poor will be poorer, the lobbyists will be crawling all over the whitehouse, the economy will dive, any healthcare bill will be a shadow of what it once was, (if it ever even happens) and doubling the national debt comes with the territory now.

But........... maybe next time!!!! Back to the drawing board. Back to square one. Good or bad, we might see another Regan after this. The economy has been s#it for so long that if any administration could pull a rabbit out of a hat, they'd have the place for the next decade or more.

I have a feeling people are getting weary and this Tea Party club
(or whatever you call them), is going to have an impact. I think there's a lot of incumbents that better start polishing up those resumes. And 2012 will be here in a flash.

 

Which is part of my viewpoint. People try to apply principles and logic to an inherently corrupt, fixed system. You can't.
Actually it's all a pretty sad joke. The elite own the system and make the rules, and the people applaud the corruption under the guise of achieving wealth through capitalism. Cutting your nose to spite your face I'd say. Sick world of greed and arrogance.

 

One thing I do keep reading is the number of people who say they would have voted for Ron Paul but did not as he had no chance of winning!!! Ever consider that he might have won if all of you had actualy voted for him? Even if he had come a credable second it would have been enough to realy shake up the 2 party system. unfortunatly there seems to be a great deal of apathy here.

 

No...I don't know the parameters. I thought I conveyed that.
So you get to define life by determining when life begins. Is that correct? A sperm under a microscope moves around and then eventually dies. How do you know that isn't life?
Since you're on the right, then I guess you should apply the same logic to stem cell research. Stem cells, by your definition, aren't life. They're just like sperm. Correct?

No always a simple yes or no question. That's another problem I have with the right. EVERYTHING is black and white.

Republicans are always pro life until you're born. Then you're on your own and subject to a bomb.

Self defense...that what Iraq was....IS.???

 

Since you brought up your viewpoint.....

You consistently post what you hate about America, I would like to ask you what you would like to this country to look like. What is your vision of a healthy United States? And don't forget to offer a few reasonable solutions on how to achieve it. Can you do this for us without the insults & hyperbole? Please!

 

No...not to you I can't. There ya go....no insults.

 

A few of us had predicted you would distance yourself from what you posted & refuse to answer. Typical.

 

Actualy David he did answer your question LOL, you asked could he and he responded No

 

It would be difficult for me to point out the things I like about either political party much less point out the positive things about the party by, of, and for the wealthy. I do like the self-reliance aspect of the Right and the healthy mistrust of government but not for the same reasons that the Republicans like those things. They simply wish to maintain the status quo that keeps them on top in a very selfish, self-serving, greed-driven relationship with this country. They have a tendency to define every issue from the point of view of money and never consider the status that they have as a consequence of their race, their gender, their religion, and even their sexual orientation. Let’s face it; you go a lot further in this country if you happen to be born male, white, Protestant, and heterosexual. They never once consider the advantage of just being born into that segment affords them. Many of them believe that they are self-made even as many of them were simply born into money. Ask Paris Hilton sometime how she made her money.

 

When I see the words self-reliance, I think of Ralph Waldo Emerson. Our politicians act as if they have no idea who Emerson was.

 

Which party are you referring to? Seems the common thought in this forum is that the Republican party is the party of the wealthy for some reason when the facts point to Democrats as the controllers of the majority of wealth & corporate power in the US.