Democracy Prevails In Wisconsin - Governor Walker WINS!!!!

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With all due respect,
I see the entire thing as a disaster for the working man. Unions are the only group that truly represents the working man. With unions gone the working man or should I say person will be without a voice and without a political entity to defend this social economic group. Mind you, I am not against trimming union gravey but to attack collective bargining is really trying to kill the unions.
With that said, except for Bill Clinton where was the democrats. I thought they are suppose to be for the working man. Why didn't the lefty shows who state they all about the working class call out the democrat leadership mainly obama for deserting the working class. Guess as long as pac money is pouring in from business and overseas the working man just doesn't matter to either party.
Now I understand Walker has done some great economic changes in his state, just wish he didn't decide to kill off another sector of the working middle class. Long run it is the worse thing for democracy and remember this is coming from someone who is not economically effected by this attack.

 

Even if I am against Walker attacking collective bargining I agree with my online friend that this is indeed an excellent post. Especially and I quote you,

"fact that half of the country pays absolutely zero in federal taxes. Not only that but receives money back. So we literally have half of the country that COULDN"T CARE LESS HOW MUCH the govt raises taxes on the rest of us."

 

Who are you and what have you done with Andy?

 

Andy, you're honest enough to give your opinion instead of just spewing partisan talking points like several of the members on this forum do. Thanks. I disagree with your opinion about unions simply because they became too powerful and morphed into a money-generating arm of the Democrat Party. A "strong arm", if you will. Unions are, by design, one-sided and greedy in nature. Take for instance:

One Year After Its Bankruptcy, GM Is Still Married to the UAW

June 18, 2010
Detroit — They’re b-a-a-a-a-ck. Actually, they never left. And that’s the problem.

It’s fitting that — one year to the month since GM declared bankruptcy — the annual United Auto Worker’s convention is being held here amid renewed, militant calls that the Detroit Three give back last year’s labor concessions. In retrospect, the White House–engineered bankruptcy looks like a brilliant move, artfully dodging a prolonged bankruptcy of a major American industry in the middle of a national economic free-fall.

But it is also apparent that the “UAW bailout” — engineered by a union-beholden Democratic president — did not address Detroit’s structural problem. Indeed, experts say the automakers missed a once-in-a-generation opportunity to fundamentally change the industry, scrub its union culture, and enter the 21st century with a modern, union-free business model like their U.S.-based Japanese, German, and Korean competitors.

The UAW agreed to significant concessions in return for staying in the shop, including $14 an hour wages for new hires, a wage freeze on existing employees, and a no-strike commitment at GM and Chrysler until 2015. But that was then, this is now.

The UAW has a short memory when it comes to the outrageous union benefits that drove automakers to the brink. With the industry still on its back, deeply in debt, and just showing the first signs of profitability, the UAW this week raised the volume on demands that the industry return to business as usual.

“(Ford) is making lots of profits and if we couldn’t strike, we’d have nothing to force them to get back what we’ve given up over the last two years,” says UAW official Gary Walkowicz as he targeted Ford, which — unlike GM and Chrysler — got no assurances regarding labor stoppages.

The union’s new president, Bob King, also signaled that UAW workers would already be looking to recover the 2009 concessions. King vowed the union would win back concessions — he’s already won tuition payments for hourly workers (try finding that perk in any other industry!) — and said “we are going to pound on” automakers to unionize new plants.

This is Detroit’s nightmare. Having saved the union — and the company — from wrenching restructuring, Washington’s “drive thru” bankruptcy did nothing to cure the Detroit Three of their flawed shop culture: That is, they have two managements under one roof.

“There is no evidence that they really rethought the problem,” says Michael Levine, distinguished research scholar and senior lecturer at NYU School of Law. “That is what a true bankruptcy does. It turns you loose to rethink the problem.”

“But politics played a part because the government wanted it over with. Government should have made sure they were on the road. Instead, government paved the road,” Levine adds, arguing the feds were right to step in — but should have stopped at guaranteeing supplier contracts.

Professor Lynn Lopucki of UCLA Law School admires the legal dexterity of the Obama team, but agrees however that the quick bankruptcy success may be the enemy of long-term health. “It was quite a legal success, but nothing was done to improve operations.”

In other words, Big Labor is still there. And it’s getting hungry again. You can hear the beast’s stomach growling in Detroit this week.

http://www.nationalreview.com/plane...-bankruptcy-gm-still-married-uaw/henry-payne#

 

Yeah, blame the workers. They decide which cars to produce. They decide all of the little business and marketing decisions for GM. It was the workers that drove GM into the ditch. They must have been too lazy to do the work.

 

Good post!
It seems the libs are bent on repeating the same mistakes over & again, aren't they?

 

Thank you for showing the respect that one expects from an intelligent poster whom may have different viewpoints.

The case you make regarding the auto industry makes sense and I agree with you that they are hurting the nation.

I just do not like political leaders going after collective bargeniing for that is an attack to destory unions as an entity. I made my case in posts past why the unions are needed now if I may I just want to state why I feel some deserve what they get.
1. The way I look at it we want the best teachers in times of good as well as times of bad. If the teachers do not have a good union ensuring them good benifits during both the bad as well as the good times then there will be no one with a half of a brain wanting to be a teacher during the good times.
2. The way I look at Firemen is how can you expect a person to be a firemen in an urban setting where there is an enormous physcial toll on the body in their fifties or sixties. Those people do deserve an early retirement and lets face it quite a few of them do have job related health concerns soon after retirement.

Now what I do not get is why some unions get what they get and I agree that they need to be taken down a few steps to use an example, in NYC the Department of Santation is usually the highest paid of all public employees and there is an early retirement as well. Most of those guys just drive a truck and push a button and put in half a day. This union should keep its collective bargining but the contract offfered by the city should be hard ball. I used them as an example as the bad for if anyone googles what these guys get they be kicking themselves in the butt for going to college and putting in 12 hour days at times and/or working a weekend day from time to time just to keep pace and keep a job.

 

Unions exist only to raise funds for the benefit of the dimocrat party these days. The "benefit" for the workers is mainly in the form of job protection for tenured and underperforming employees.
In WI, Walker stopped automatic, involuntary withholding of union dues from employees paychecks thus giving the employees the option to pay dues or not pay dues for the first time. Reports I have read claim as many as 42% of the employees have decided not to continue paying the union dues & have, in effect, decided to leave the unions voluntarily.
Teachers unions are by far the worst of the lot.

 

There is truth to what you are saying. Most of the union leadership sold out their membership to the democrat party and for the most part the democrat party just takes their money and runs. The unions have no allies now and were fools not putting up their own candidates or at least picking and choosing across party lines for whom was best for them. Anyone with a brain has to recognize that too many unions have too much gravey and that needs to be addressed but it would be a serious mistake to kill unions.

 

Every time there is a Right-wing rant about Unions, I have to laugh. These same Right-wingers enjoy the benefits Unions have brought them while condemning Unions. They even go so far as to never say "workers" but use the term Union as a pejorative. What are Unions? They are the paid representatives of the workers just like lobbyists are for the wealthy. They represent the interests of the workers in the workplace.

Now if you are so anti-Union, maybe you should stand up like a man and give back every right that Unions have won for all of us. So to begin, you now work 7 days a week between 12 and 16 hours a day. Your age is irrelevant because Unions also fought for child labor laws. You have no guarantee of safety in the workplace anymore either. If your boss wants to lock the exits to keep you from taking breaks (also won by Unions) tough! If a fire breaks out and the doors are chained shut, oh well. Vacation and sick time, kiss them good bye. Workman's compensation if you happen to be injured on the job, sorry, you'll have to play hurt or lose your job. Health benefits through your employer, sorry again, don't get sick.

Now I could go on like this all day because people, through the power of collective bargaining, fought for decades for the rights we enjoy and apparently some of us simply take for granted. Do you think that the government that you despise so much is going to be able to enforce these rights if they are wholly owned by corporations? Well, I don't have the same ability to lie to myself that you seem to have. Some people live in a fool’s paradise of their own creation and believe that all is well if they just stick their fingers in their ears and chant La-la-la-la-la-la-la-la.

 

But the GOP selling out to corporations is no problem for you? Let's see, if people stand up for themselves and ban together to fight for worker’s rights, that bad. If corporations spend millions to write, buy, and enact legislation through their puppets in the GOP that favors them with respect to polluting the environment, paying little or no taxes, and passing laws that specifically benefit their organization exclusively, that's OK?

I see, workers are bad and corporations are good. Hum?

 

I am sorry, but I fail to understand how forcing employees to pay dues to an organization advocating contrary to their beliefs is ever justified. And if you do not believe that, please explain why up to 2/3 of the memberships quit paying their dues when they were permitted to do so.

That being said, unions have a place where salary and benefit demands can be balanced against profits although I personally believe unions should be size limited just as the businesses are. But, when it comes to public service unions, there is nothing to balance salary/benefit demands against. That is a large part of why George Meany said “It is impossible to bargain collectively with the government.”

 

I have no problem with a company bartering with unions, it is THEIR money. Public sector unions bargain with OUR money........no responsibility. How many citys in America have to go broke until this is realized?

Someone here should post a link or 3 to FDR's opinion on public sector unions. He is after all the holy grail of the left..........

 

I am not a zealot on this issue but I have to recognize that working conditions for all Americans sucked before the unions and it is not the people who work for the unions that is destorying this nation. The money stolen during the latest banking/mortage scandel, the costs of fighting saudi foriegn policy wars overseas, and the costs of illegals and home grown welfare that drains our tax pool resources locally. Those things are destorying our nation and both sides, Dems and Rep, attacking the unions distracts from the real issues as well as weakens the common citizens power and therefore weakens democracy.

Mind you, I do not belong to any union nor does any member in my nuclear and extended family yet I realize the importance of them.

 

I think the recent overwhelming victory in Wisconsin may have been due to an increase in job growth in the state triggered by Governor Walker's economic policies. Getting people back to work is Wisconsin's main focus and Governor Walker certainly is spearheading that. Now that people in Wisconsin are beginning to see they're headed down the right path, they're listening less and less to liberals, socialists, and corrupt unions. Could Wisconsin be an indicator of the conservative tide in the country which will relegate Obama and his failed policies to the trash bin of history this November?

Let's hope for change...

 

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Somebody seems to be in last place here.

 

When unions members were allowed to leave the force fed unions, membership dropped 40%, I could be wrong on the %, but I do know it was huge. Most if not all leftys are pro choice correct? Let the people choose !!!!

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-dispute-over-union-fee-hike/?test=latestnews

 

Anyone who knows my posts over the years knows that I am pro-union and was anti-walker but the people spoke and democracy prevailed. This should be a wake up call to the unions, they should have had one ten years ago, that the democrat party has for the most part abandoned them and they need to do a better public relations job with the nation as a whole which may entail volunteering to give backs in economically depressed areas which in turn could even lead to more people being hired and in the long term a stronger union force. The unions also really need to start running thier own candidates at the local levels and work their way up from there for they are out in the cold so to speak politically.