I think it was the supreme court that has said no crosses on Federal Property. Arkinton has a few last time I was there to visit. One of my Bothersin law in in The San Bruno Military Cemetary ( Vietnam ) . The other came home and died from spraying "Agent Orange" in Vietnam. He made it until he was 33 now he would be 66 . How time flies. Pep
Have I read this correctly? they say that you can not have a cross in a cemetry if it is Goverment owned?
The cross I belive it said federal property. The Military Cemetary I would think belongs to the Government. It is a secular thing where any icon relating to religion is prohibited. They might have a bit of trouble with this item. It is hard to live a life and find that a great bit of what we have stood for is deception. "To secure ourselves against defeat , lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself ". SunTzu , The Art of War
So they would restrict the rights of those who have died serving there country to be buried beneath a cross?
Crosses Here is a link to the L.A Times http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/24/nation/na-supreme-court-cross24 You can mke up you own mind on what is starting or not. I doubt if it would be retroactive ? I hope not. Let your fingers make up your mind ! Pep
of course not...some places in this country there are large amounts of people who seem to have to have religion in every part of life. They put it on the bumpers of their cars, they listen to it on the radio, they shave a cross into the dog, nothing in their life can remained untouched by their religion...instead of just motorcyclists...they are bikers for Christ....Instead of coin collectors they are collector for Jesus. Because all things must be tied into their religion...they are not content with keeping it on private land (a church on EVERY corner if not 2 or 3), billboards, bumper stickers, the radio, 15 TV channels, etc...etc..They must also have religious symbols and verse in the government buildings, courthouses, and schools as well so that all children going to school, regardless of what they believe, will be exposed to Christianity and all people going to pay a ticket or renew their tags at the courthouse can be greeted with the ten commandments. They will attempt to put crosses EVERYWHERE!! People have objected to this and taken action. This thread is similar to the 'if they allow gays to marry, next thing you know people will be marrying their dogs!!' type of argument. In other words...absurd. Simply because they are looking to keep people from putting crosses and ten commandment verses on every square inch of land in america has little to do with vet cemetaries and what they will allow. These are peoples PERSONAL burial spaces...they can have what they want as long as it isnt a 7 foot high christ next to a ten ton stone with the 10 commandments on them....I am sure there are other cemetaries that would allow that They have set grave stone sizes and they have set what people can have on them. All my male relatives are buried in Veteran cemeteries and they allow you to put a cross, a star of David, or a crescent moon on your tomb...My relatives all have crosses on their stones and I have no doubt this will not be changing...ever.
Thanks for that Dru, I have no problem with the headstone sizes, we have that rule over here in some places and I hate to say it some cemetries have actualy banned the use of the cross on a grave so as not to offend others (These same others who state the Cemetry owners are stupid LOL)
Just read the story and I have to say I find it repugnant to say the least that anyone would call for such a momument to be removed, but then again I am biased.
This sort of thing happens quite often in various forms of government. I am Sexton of a cemetery owned by a city government and maintained by city employees. When we built a Chapel/Mausoleum we originally planned on ornate sculptures adorning the front of the building but were quickly advised it would not be allowed. It was finally agreed that we could settle on 2 crosses on the front but only if they were designated "artistic designs" and had to be completely non-denominational. Yes and no. Always read and completely understand your deed. The cemetery grounds in our city cemetery always remains the property of the city government. You are given a deed when you purchase graves/lots but all it gives the purchaser is the right to bury someone in that location. The property/grave actually is still owned by the city and you must agree to and abide by any rules set forth by the city. The rules are pretty simple though and we have yet to evict anyone. LOL
yeah, the ACLU always takes it too far. While I am against plastering crosses all over court houses and public land...I see nothing wrong with this particular case....although....I also believe that if you are going to allow crosses you must allow all other religious symbols as well if it is government....all or none IMO. So if you are going to put up crosses, then you must also allow all other religious symbols as well. As for the cemetary issue...I have never been in a cemetary that did not have or allow religious symbols on a grave stones (save maybe satanic ones). Then again the only cemetaries I have been in are in the deep south. But then again, I am not the type that gets all bent out of shape when I see crosses (or any other religious symbol) nor do I feel it imperative to get 'in god we trust' off the money or return to our much more classic a fitting national motto 'E Pluribus Unum'. I haves my opinions but thats about all...I wont go crusading about them...and maybe thats why religion is everywhere...they WILL crusade.
I don't think any cemetery can or would ban the use of crosses or any religious symbols on tombstones since they are purchased by and are the private property of the individuals.
They can and will. Same basic legal theory as a homeowner's association forbidding a property owner from keeping a RV on their property. I grew up in an historical town on the East Coast, and the historic district there had to approve EVERYTHING when you were doing maintainence. Even down to things so insignificant as the style and color of your shutters.
Cemetry stupidity from the UK http://www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/news/end-petty-cemetery-rules/article-987750-detail/article.html and from the USA http://www.irontontribune.com/news/2009/may/16/woodland-caretakers-issue-reminder-about-rules/
What a fascinating thread that seems to point to so much blatant stupidity. Now I have not bothered to read any links yet but I'll toss in my two cents just from the posts I've read. To me it's real f*****g simple. Put whatever religious symbol you want on your own headstone. How can that really offend anyone? If I go to a cemetary to "visit" a departed loved one I don't look for other people. I look for the loved one. Really the only one that matters to me. My brother in law died years ago. He was a huge Indy 500 fan. His stone is shaped as an Indy race car. That's how I, my sister and others, will always remember him. If someone takes offense to that because driving 200 MPH can kill you should it be removed? I can understand not having crosses etc. on "public" parts of the cemetary as many faiths may be represented. I can understand a "Christian only", "Jewish only", "Muslim only" cemetary. What I can't understand is a "non-denominational" cemetary setting any such views. May as well tell Americans we're not Americans UNLESS you plan to be buried in such a way. Heck, I'm leaning toward cremation anyway. Not like I'll feel it. Use me as an ashtray or would that offend someone?
Non-denominational was a bad choice of words on my part. A better description would be "all-denominational". The city is always wary about doing anything or publically displaying any object that may possibly offend one of the many churches or veterans organizations in town.
