Crazy Joe strikes again!!

Is this another one of your "if you don't announce your disagreement, you have just agreed with me" statements?
I must agree with one point, someone in post #16 did claim he has dark secrets in his past. As for the rest, well ..............

 

Post #9 Your words

The only way he managed to do "a super job of deceiving & exploiting people" was because the lamestreet media did absolutely everything to suppress all negatives so much as hinted at.

Blame the media! thats what you just did, blame any one but the Republican party even when part of that self same media supports the Republican party LOL
As for you agreeing with me or not I honestly coudn't care less

 

Yep! And I stand by those words, but not your remeaning of my statements. I also said, "Vetted in the sense that he did no t have any felony convictions was not a problem." Do I blame the lamestreet media at least in part, absolutely - for the same reason you don't hear much about of Fast and Furious, the new Black Panthers, Solyndra, Fisker, Evergreen Solar, Holder's subpena, etc. Do I think the lamestreet media has an objective - absolutely and so do the majority of Americans. Now, what I have not said is that the media was the only problem. The Republicans were in such bad shape I am not sure Reagan could have beat Blago.

 

I don't think it was all his fault. He can't be blamed for everything because it just doesn't work as simply as everyone would like to believe. But he shouldn't have pretended to the extent he did either. All he's done is set new bars for vacationing, vacation miles traveled, and broken campaign promises. He's getting us out of Iraq 3 years later than I expected. I'm a reasonable person and would be willing to give him all the credit he deserves if I could just find something. Did he end the Bush tax cuts?? No. Extended them. End the Patriot Act? No, extended it. No lobbyists in the Whitehouse as promised? No. There's more than usual. Punish China for manipulating their currency as promised? No. Millions of jobs created? No. Millions lost. Reinforced the border? No. Made it weaker and drug a US state into litigation for enforcing Federal law. Just to name a few.

Even his biggest fans have to be questioning what happened at this point. Anybody that is reasonable has to be left scratching their heads. Unless they're completely delusional (i.e., Moen). The people on the fence who leaned towards BO last time are not going to leave their couches on election night this time. I just don't see it happening. The bloom is off the rose.

 

At least he's not Republican. If he was I can gaurantee he'd be worse.

 

bump

 

HM, allow me to address one point and I'll ignore the rest for another day...

The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) was a collection of community-based organizations in the United States that advocated for low- and moderate-income families by working on neighborhood safety, voter registration, health care, affordable housing, and other social issues. At its peak ACORN had over 500,000 members and more than 1,200 neighborhood chapters[3] in over 100 cities across the U.S.,[4] as well as in Argentina, Canada, Mexico, and Peru.[5] ACORN was founded in 1970 by Wade Rathke and Gary Delgado.[6] It filed for Chapter 7 liquidation on November 2, 2010, effectively closing the organization,[7] although many chapters and state-wide organizations continued work under different name(s).[8]
ACORN was shut down in the wake of the September 2009 release of selectively edited videos by two conservative activists including James O'Keefe using a hidden camera to elicit damaging responses from low-level ACORN employees that appeared to advise them how to hide prostitution activities and avoid taxes.[9] A nationwide controversy immediately ensued resulting in a loss of funding from government and private donors,[10][11][12] including a "defund ACORN" act passed by Congress. Following the publication of the videos, four different independent investigations by various state and city Attorneys General and the GAO released in 2009 and 2010 cleared ACORN, finding its employees had not engaged in criminal activities and that the organization had managed its federal funding appropriately, and calling the videos deceptively and selectively edited to present the workers in the worst possible light. Despite this, by March 2010, 15 of ACORN's 30 state chapters had already closed[10] and the group announced it was closing its remaining state chapters and disbanding.[13]

This was just one more case of the Right-wing spin machine saying something long enough and loud enough until people with no ability to research facts for themselves believe the lies as they were told. Please detail every conviction ACORN has had. I'd love to see their corrupt rap sheet.

 

Moen, I have no need to prove anything to you. Anything I do post, you won't take seriously anyway. You just want me to provide you with more fodder. Provide your own.

 

I will start addressing you point. Try this;


AR 1998 A contractor with ACORN-affiliated Project Vote was arrested for falsifying about 400 voter registration cards.
CO 2004 An ACORN employee admitted to forging signatures and registering three of her friends to vote 40 times.
2005 Two ex-ACORN employees were convicted in Denver of perjury for submitting false voter registrations.
FL 2004 A Florida Department of Law Enforcement spokesman said ACORN was “singled out” among suspected voter registration groups for a 2004 wage initiative because it was “the common thread” in the agency’s fraud investigations.
MI 2004 The Detroit Free Press reported that “overzealous or unscrupulous campaign workers in several Michigan counties are under investigation for voter-registration fraud, suspected of attempting to register nonexistent people or forging applications for already-registered voters.” ACORN-affiliate Project Vote was one of two groups suspected of turning in the documents.
MO 2007 Four ACORN employees were indicted in Kansas City for charges including identity theft and filing false registrations during the 2006 election.
2006 Eight ACORN employees in St. Louis were indicted on federal election fraud charges. Each of the eight faces up to five years in prison for forging signatures and submitting false information.
2003 Of 5,379 voter registration cards ACORN submitted in St. Louis, only 2,013 of those appeared to be valid. At least 1,000 are believed to be attempts to register voters illegally.
NC 2004 North Carolina officials investigated ACORN for submitting fake voter registration cards.
NM 2005 Four ACORN employees submitted as many as 3,000 potentially fraudulent signatures on the group’s Albuquerque ballot initiative. A local sheriff added: “It’s safe to say the forgery was widespread.”
2004 An ACORN employee registered a 13-year-old boy to vote. Citing this and other examples, New Mexico State Representative Joe Thompson stated that ACORN was “manufacturing voters” throughout New Mexico.
OH 2007 A man in Reynoldsburg was indicted on two felony counts of illegal voting and false registration, after being registered by ACORN to vote in two separate counties.
2004 A grand jury indicted a Columbus ACORN worker for submitting a false signature and false voter registration form. In Franklin County, two ACORN workers submitted what the director of the board of election supervisors called “blatantly false” forms. In Cuyahoga County, ACORN and its affiliate Project Vote submitted registration cards that had the highest rate of errors for any voter registration group.
MN 2004 During a traffic stop, police found more than 300 voter registration cards in the trunk of a former ACORN employee, who had violated a legal requirements that registration cards be submitted to the Secretary of State within 10 days of being filled out and signed.
PA 2008 An ACORN employee in West Reading, PA, was sentenced to up to 23 months in prison for identity theft and tampering with records. A second ACORN worker pleaded not guilty to the same charges and is free on $10,000 bail.
2004 Reading’s Director of Elections received calls from numerous individuals complaining that ACORN employees deliberately put inaccurate information on their voter registration forms. The Berks County director of elections said voter fraud was “absolutely out of hand,” and added: “Not only do we have unintentional duplication of voter registration but we have blatant duplicate voter registrations.” The Berks County deputy director of elections added that ACORN was under investigation by the Department of Justice.
TX 2004 ACORN turned in the voter registration form of David Young, who told reporters “The signature is not my signature. It’s not even close.” His social security number and date of birth were also incorrect.
VA 2005 In 2005, the Virginia State Board of Elections admonished Project Vote and ACORN for turning in a significant number of faulty voter registrations. An audit revealed that 83% of sampled registrations that were rejected for carrying false or questionable information were submitted by Project Vote. Many of these registrations carried social security numbers that exist for other people, listed non-existent or commercial addresses, or were for convicted felons in violation of state and federal election law.
In a letter to ACORN, the State Board of Elections reported that 56% of the voter registration applications ACORN turned in were ineligible. Further, a full 35% were not submitted in a timely manner, as required by law. The State Board of Elections also commented on what appeared to be evidence of intentional voter fraud. “Additionally,” they wrote, “information appears to have been altered on some applications where information given by the applicant in one color ink has been scratched through and re-entered in another color ink. Any alteration of a voter registration application is a Class 5 Felony in accordance with § 24.2-1009 of the Code of Virginia.”

WA 2007 Three ACORN employees pleaded guilty, and four more were charged, in the worst case of voter registration fraud in Washington state history. More than 2,000 fraudulent voter registration cards were submitted by the group during a voter registration drive.
WI 2004 The district attorney’s office investigated seven voter registration applications Project Vote employees filed in the names of people who said the group never contacted them. Former Project Vote employee Robert Marquise Blakely told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that he had not met with any of the people whose voter registration applications he signed, “an apparent violation of state law,” according to the paper.

 

RLM, you did your homework. ACORN is about as crooked as they come.

 

If you make a dumb statement and I let you get away with it, am I really doing my job?

Your post seems like a very poor defense of a rather straight forward statement. It isn't a matter of "proving" anything to me or not, it is a matter of backing up what you said with facts. The RW seems to always take issue with their own poorly articulated statements when they get called on them. After all, you did say “seriously”. I took you at your word. Was that a misjudgment on my part?

Because the facts are..... "Following the publication of the videos, four different independent investigations by various state and city Attorneys General and the GAO released in 2009 and 2010 cleared ACORN, finding its employees had not engaged in criminal activities and that the organization had managed its federal funding appropriately, and calling the videos deceptively and selectively edited to present the workers in the worst possible light. Despite this, by March 2010, 15 of ACORN's 30 state chapters had already closed and the group announced it was closing its remaining state chapters and disbanding."

 

It's not a dumb statement, Moen. I'm just tired of the "attack" mode that people use here, which differs greatly from a "discuss" mode. I can't believe you choose to respond to my post, which basically amounts to "my mornings are involved with housework and venison packing, my afternoons are involved with laundry, dog stuff, chicken stuff, and reading/research while I surf the 'net, and my evenings are loaded down with homework and other stuff, so I don't feel like doing your research for you" and that you choose not to respond to rlm's post which lays out exactly what you wanted from me. You can believe what you want--regardless of what was found in 2009 and 2010, ACORN was composed of people who threatened/bribed others for votes and other long-term bad actors.

 

I hardly think correcting a statement is an attack. For some reason, I thought it was a counterpoint. All I said was that I wanted to address one point. I did not make a personal attack on you. I did sum up that post by pointing out that the RW tends to repeat things long enough and loud enough until lies are told as truth. At no point did I attack you in that post. Please read post #27 again.

My point was merely that ACORN has not been convicted of anything but they were defunded based on intentionally deceptive videos produced, edited, distributed, and pushed by RW'ers, and now apparently by you. DO you NOT think that you were duped by this deception? You clearly are pushing it even though there is no truth to it. I never called you a name, never said a word about your character, I just pointed out where you were wrong. You don’t seem to be able to deal with this and can only see it as an attack you. You were the one that complained that there were too many personal attacks here and now you seem to see attacks everywhere. I do think that you tend to be more reasonable than just about any of the RW’ers here but sometimes you do jump behind the invisible soundproof wall and slap on the cone of silence. Sometimes facts are just inconvenient things and how we deal with them says a lot about who we are.

As far as rlm's post goes, you'll notice he didn't post a source. It's from a RW blog, the same cadre of folks that posted the intentionally deceptive videos produced, edited, distributed for the purposes of perpetrating lies. Why would anyone lend them any credibility when they have already been proven to be liars? Unless you want to believe them in the first place and have no interest in finding out the truth.

ACORN has been under attack from the RW ever since they were formed in the 70's. Registering low income and poor people to vote is antithetical to the RW mission of disenfranchising these types of people. Of course the RW will throw everything they have at this organization. Just remember, voter registration fraud to any degree does not translate into voter fraud. There is a huge difference. The instances of actual voter fraud are so statistical insignificant that you run out of zeros trying to calculate them, so ACORN must be awful at their "corrupt" registration practices.

Now, if you throw BS out there, do you really expect me or anyone else not to call you on it? If so, you are definitely in the wrong forum.

 

Regardless of the source, just which part of ACORN's legal troubles are you saying did not happen?

 

Moen, once--just one lousy time--I'd like to read a political thread in which you didn't use the term "RW" or its variants and stopped judging people on whether they were conservative or liberal. I am comfortable with who I am and have nothing to prove to you, so if you choose to think that my refusing to do research for you to discredit, or simply for you, then you are free to do so.

 

So you are saying that you don't intend to defend your criticism of ACORN but you are just satisfied to know that if you bothered to do the "research", you'd inevitably prove me wrong because the "reserach" I did must be wrong. That sounds a lot like an ideolgical defense where the ideology replaces facts. Fine, but don't fault me for using the term Right-wing. It is correct in this instance. Have a nice day. Sorry I bothered to reply.

 

That's not even resembling a thing that I said. I never criticized your so-called research of ACORN and I believe that there are two sides to every story, but you need to take what you said to me to heart. Heck, here you are arguing with me and you haven't even approached a single thing that rlm posted. I believe that ACORN is corrupt. I have read/seen the news that has said it was corrupt. It's not enough to say, "the organization was found not guilty" because all that means is that there was not enough evidence to convict them. In my opinion, ACORN is only the tip of the iceberg--I personally feel that all organizations that pay "volunteers" to verbally assault people to sign petitions or sign them up to vote are corrupt, not just ACORN. When there are more people registered to vote in a state than there are people of voting age in that state and ACORN is behind the registrations--then yeah--it's corrupt. But when I say "I don't have time to waste just to have you pick me apart, I mean it. Today I did housework, went to pack venison, had something to eat, and spent three hours putting together some new chicken pens. I don't have time to play games trying to find sources that you'll deem acceptable and then have you nitpick even those sources to death (well, that author is okay on the surface, but in 1999 he wrote an article sympathetic to the Republican party, which makes him a RWer and demon spawn and then there was an explosion on the moon and he and the moon went hurtling into space with Martin Landau and Barbara Bain and he's just a waste of time. I want a better source that is so far left his car doesn't have right turn signals before my pulse rises over 76 and I deign to read the whole thing before excoriating him"). Seriously, you want someone who posts solely based on ideology--look in the mirror.

 

Well, at least he is being conversant today. That is an improvement from most of last week.

 

moens's lame defefense of acorn reminds me of the comedy skit where a guy, filling out a job applications, asks "convicted of a felony?".

 

I simply asked you to prove your statement that ACORN was corrupt. You obviously know nothing about the organization itself other than what the RW blogosphere has taught you. Four separate investigations have cleared ACORN and determined that the video that began the entire conversation/investigation was nothing more than creative editing. You adhere to the lies anyway. That is of course your right. You apparently have no interest or time in defending your opinion of ACORN so we'll leave it alone. I originally thought that there may be some substance to your thought processes since you seemed to like to write and have educated yourself.
We have come to that inevitable point in this forum where we are just talking past each other while lesser minds snipe at one or both of us from the periphery. I see no value in continuing. For all of your, “you guys just snipe at each other and I am discussed by it” attitude, when it comes down to it, you aren’t all that different. Now have the last word and we can end this fruitless waste of bandwidth.