Christians Murdering People?

I wanted to wait to see if anyone else would post about the tragic events in Wisconsin that occurred the other day, but the more I think about it, I doubt that's gonna happen. Just as with the Queen's Diamond Jubilee celebrations and Olympics (both of which I've refrained from writing about in anticipation of any thread by De Orc), I think everyone's waitin' for someone else to do it...so I may as well botch it up myself lol

By the way De Orc, I have always had great respect for the Queen, and the decision (by you Brits) to not compete against China's opening Ceremonies was a bright move... China killed it, and no one'll top it for decades lol

Clembo, I had thought that you may have been interested in creating a thread on this recent incident in Wisconsin. I remember you said you worked at a truck-stop that was bought out ...possibly by Sikhs (I forget) who immediately killed the business by removing all pork products. Not a very bright decision lol ...I'm also pretty sure you lived or worked near the incident (?)...and would enjoy hearing your thoughts on it.

As for the title of this thread, I'm sure it's made some people unhappy with me, but it is an accurate statement. The neo-Nazi movement is exclusively Christian. Maybe they're not the ordinary, hard-working, peaceful Christians...but they are Christians none-the-less.

Now, we've had some discussions recently on this site regarding Muslims attacking both Muslims and non-Muslims alike, and of Christians killing Muslims. While the Sikh community is not Muslim, to neo-Nazis there is no difference. The Turbans the males wear are distinctly non-Christian and easily identifies the wearer as such. That, IMO, is a likely the main reason the shooter attacked them ...they were easily identifiable as non-Christian.

Most of the other people neo-nazis hate are not as easily identifiable, with the exception of most blacks. But going into a black neighborhood and waving a gun around is something even a neo-nazi would think twice about, so the Sikh community was probably a more tantalizing target. Horrible, horrible to say... but truthful. Jews and Muslims, two other groups the neos hate, are much more difficult to identify with any great degree of certainty. Again, not nearly as true with a turban on. (By the way, I find them to be quite flattering to the wearer, as well as the beards... a very dignified look).

Of course, we cannot forget that this is yet another case of a madman using a gun to kill multiple people, and I respect Joe's restraint (so far) in not raging against that. And let's be truthful here, guns make it far far easier to kill multiple people in a short period of time, unlike almost all other weapons, and that is something that everyone should be able to understand. A madman with a bomb say may be able to do such a mass-killing, but that would be a far more rare incident simply because the technical aspects of making a bomb inhibits it's common use as a weapon in situations like this. All other typically-used weapons (knives, clubs, etc) do not allow for such easy mass-killings by madmen/women.

Ok, I've butchered this thread enough. Comment at your leisure.

 

Pat Robertson thinks it might be satanic, or them God-hatin' atheists. So there.

700 Club August 6, 2012

 

lol ...Ohhhh Pat, you self-beguiling little man...If you hadn't asked for people to pray for my cousin when she was dying from lupus all those long years ago I might think less of you for your erratic beliefs since then.

 

Thanks IQ lets be honest there was no way we could compete with the Beijing opening ceremony, but I was happy with what we managed, the Queen with James Bond was fantastic LOL

Now back on topic, I wouldn't call the nut job who killed those folks a Christian and I hope we get no repeat of these actions.

 

The part that I find interesting in all these mass shootings is the FBI report that came out, and was scorned by the Right-wingers, that said that foreign terrorists weren't really the main problem in this country, domestic hate groups were more of an issue than any foreign threat and I guess the FBI has been proven right on this issue.

Most of the hate groups ARE white supremacist, neo-Nazis, Christian associated nut cases. That does not automatically mean that Christians should be associated with these nuts nor should they be but it really isn’t any different than Muslim terrorists tainting all Muslims by their actions. It’s really stupid in both cases but there are those that can only see the association of the foreign terrorists to their Muslim religion while ignoring the inconvenience of the same behaviors by domestic Christian groups. Neither Muslims in general or Christians in general are to blame for the acts of these small groups of dead enders but people choose to look at it one way when they are Muslim terrorists and another way when they are Christian terrorists.

I saw the son of the head of the temple talk about soft intimidation that routinely occurs to people in his community. He said that it goes unreported and even is not mentioned to the immediate family members. Once a large group came together, they realized just how much soft intimidation was going on. We have a problem when we are not allowed to practice our religion of choice freely in this country no matter what that religion is. Apparently, some feel the right to intimidate, harass, and even murder people of other religions in this country and that has to stop. Ignoring the problem will only make it worse.

 

I'll have to respectfully disagree with any denial of a Christian link to these neo-nazis. That isn't to say Christians enjoy that association, they simply have no choice, for the neo-Nazis consider themselves to be Christians...and much like the debate about the Church of Scientology's assertions that they are a religion, opposing views are immaterial to the facts.

I have two main reasons for posing that argument (the Christian link to neoNazism):

The first is a caveat to another member of this forum (xyz) who brought up the fact that Christians have attacked Muslims on occasion in response to Andy's repeated assertion that it is more the other way around. I tend to agree more with Andy on this, as I consider a lot of the accusations coming from the Muslim community to be highly exaggerated, but I can agree there is some truth to what he says...from a certain pov.

The second reason to me deals with the Christian faith's extremist elements, and is also somewhat a caveat to xyz...in that I have repeatedly commented about the extremist elements of the Muslim faith on this site, and rarely mention (in contrast) the Christian faiths similar ability to generate radical extremist views in their membership.

I get that Christians want to marginalize the link between their faith and the faith of extremists, as most Christians are essentually good people, if not misguided. My issues with all faiths has to do with their ability to deny reality, and denying this link is one example that the more reasonable among them may be able to see. I doubt many among the "flock" would agree with me, but I consider that part of the nature of that denial. I have no particular issue with that denial when no harm comes to others, but in my belief that denial eventually results to harm to non-believers in one fashion or another.

 

I regret that I missed the ceremony, I'm not really into the hoop-lah of it all (the exception being Beijing's). I did catch the mayor hangin' out on a zip-line though lol ...he was having a blast!

As for the Olympics in general, I have no great interest...but do enjoy some events, notably the kayaks navigating the rapids, but that was only 'cause it's hot here all the time now and that water looked soooo inviting lol ...I want to grab an inner tube off a car and whirl around the eddies for a few weeks lol

 

I agree with all of the above. Domestic terrorism prevention is job number one for the authorities here, especially since the OKC bombing, and statistically is far far far more likely.

Christian extremists are not that much different than Muslim, though I think it's relatively safe to say there are fewer cases of the Christian's type...though that divide is likely to be much smaller when it comes to "soft intimidation" issues in America. Honestly, I can't think of anyone who isn't a target in that respect, since people tend to dislike people who are different from themselves.

 

I agree here and I have questioned just how many people that "claim" to be Christians really are.

IQ, the truck stop I managed was leased to Muslims 10 days before 9/11. They DID pull all pork pboducts and really alienated long time customers.
Business plummeted and since then the place is totally closed. They managed to kill a thriving business.

On a side note. AFTER 9/11 drivers began giving one of our regular customers a LOT of grief.
Why? - because he wore a turban. I had been transferred to another truck stop but on one occasion was able to relate to some of those morons that he wore a turban because he was a Sikh.
As in not a Muslim in any way.

Blind hate is a real shame. The Sikh customer was one of the nicest guys you'd ever want to meet.

 

At the risk of veering off into an area that belongs in the Religion section, no one knows who is a true Christian and who isn't, nor can anyone say with any certainty what constitutes doing God's work and what doesn't. It's a matter of opinion and debate and has been since the Christ myth first appeared on the earth. God did not provide us with any definitions that are worth the stone they aren't written on.

If people like this Page guy believe that they are Christians, then they are. It's as simple as that because no one knows the mind of God sufficiently to say that they aren't. For all we know, Page did exactly what God wants his followers to do and folks over at the UCC need to get with the program.

 

Look again Tak, I had enough fore-sight to post it in the Religion section. ...since religion is a huge part of this story. So no harm, no foul.

 

Just because a person believes s/he is a Christian doesn't make him or her one. I can believe I am a motorcycle, but that doesn't give me a motor, two wheels, an handlebars. Certain rules need to be followed, whether it's to be a Christian or a motorcycle.

 

Interesting analogy. Somehow I think the rules are easier for being a motorcycle though.

What's a Christian? Is it anyone that attends any flavor of Christian church? Does it matter how they comport themselves when not at church?

I've had a problem with that for a long time. People proudly claiming they're a Christian when they'd screw you in a heartbeat. Not very Christian and I don't claim to be one. I don't claim not to be one either.

 

And what are those rules? The ones for being a Christian, not the ones for being a motorcycle. The rules that God has laid down and that are explicit in Scripture.

 

*yawn*​

The only unforgivable sin is to blaspheme against the Holy Ghost.

No true Scotsman and holier than thou malarkey aside, I think that the Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance have produced a fine definition of "Christian."

 

Or is it? Which came first the Christian or the screwing of you by the Christian? Hum?

 

The egg. Omelets came later.

 

In other words you are a Christian is along as you sincerely believe yourself to be one. And no one else has the right to get between you and God by trying to tell you what exactly God/Christ expects of you.

Saying that there are certain rules that you must follow is a power trip and an interference in the individual's relationship with the Almighty. Rules dictated to you by others apply only when determining whether or not you'll be granted membership in this sect or denomination or that one or in addressing behavior that a denomination considers sinful. They can not affect your personal relationship with God/Christ unless you choose to let them because that relationship is, well, personal. They can only affect your relationship with whatever sect you wish to align yourself with.

 

The Holy Ghost must be awfully thin skinned. He/she/it sounds quite Allah-like when it comes to sensitivity about being dissed in any way. I'm thinking the problem lies not so much with the Holy Ghost as it does with the people who believe in the Holy Ghost.

This unforgivable sin thing is apparently based on a verse in Matthew, which in its turn appears to be based on nothing. I mean how does Matthew know? Does he reveal his source for this one? When it comes to assertions regarding unforgivable sins it seems like we deserve some attribution rather than just a because-I-said-so.

 

This is a stupid thread. No one who did any of the killing quoted Christian Bible verses.
The muslims in the middle east make movies of their sucide bombers who quote the koran to be sold.

This is a stupid thread, no christian church threw a party with any of the killings mentioned or praised it.
The muslims in the middle east hand out candy and other sweets and praise the death of those their killers kill.

This is a stupid thread, most shooters in this nation are mentally imbalanced and even if it is illegal to sell a person a gun who has a record of such those records are quite often never reported to the govenment and stay in house of the doctor's office or in one case the college under rights of privacy concerns. Most of these shooters could have been stopped if only they were under proper treatment.

The Nazi is something different. He was pure hate just like the National Socialist Movement preached.