Bush hurts America again

If students from foreign countries can come to US and complete their studies successfully I don’t know why we americans can’t do it. Majority of them work to support themselves.

 

I find it odd that no one here sees the wisdom in providing higher education for as close to free as possible.

 

Our education system in this country is not welfare based, Danr !! No matter how much you might believe it should be.

What I heard in the state of the union address was that Bush was raising the money outlay to the Higher education for Mathmatics and science !!

Why try to spread junk info? some people in this country actually listen to what is said.

Rick

 

Good idea, it is at least a topic well worth discussion.

I agree with you 100%, there are any number of avenues open to young people if they are willing to work for it and take advantage of what is already being offered in the way of grants, loans and bargans offered by the post-secondary facilities.

The only thing that keeps the K thru 12 program from being a privilege is the laws enacted by the Federal and especially the State that requires attendance through a certain age level. It only follows that IF you are going to be required to pay for the service (education) you are as Moen says "entitled to receive it".

Absolutely true and something this country had better be thinking about.

Again, all true, and it has been going on for at least the last 20 years that I'm very aware of.

I have seen this with my own eyes, and know it to be true. Over and over for the last decade at least.

All true, I'm sorry to say.

Because we are handing out 'blame' it should not stop with just the ones already mentioned by Moen. Let's not forget the All High and Mighty NEA and its gang of policy makers who camp in Washington and do chores for who ever will cross their palms with silver. Let's not forget the average home town Joe, who doesn't bother to vote for someone who could possibly make a difference on the local school boards. Did you know that most members have to be roped and tied just to get them to serve on the board. I know, I'm one of them and have been for the last 23 years. This mess was the reason I ran for the seat in the first place. Can't say I've made much progress in getting it fixed. Sure could use some help.

Very well said. A personal 'thanks' for doing it here on this forum.:kewl:

 

At least Dan, in wisdom born of a lifetime of experience, can see the problem that we face. The only reason the rest of you continue to argue the pros and cons of higher education is either because you have no kids in the public school system or are uninvolved in the education of the ones that you do have, or you just don't know what the heck you are talking about when the topic of education comes up.

The students showing up at institutions of higher learning are woefully unprepared for even mild academic challenges. They can't read, write or even solve simple math problems. You can debate funding, academic standards, or what have you, but none of it matters unless the students arriving at the institutions can handle the workloads necessary to graduate.

From what I'm seeing, we are going to have to literally throw away two or more generations or alter our curriculums so that remedial subjects are prerequisites for all freshmen just to get them up to speed. In other words, teach them what they should have learned in their primary education. It would certainly weed out those that would fail anyway and allow the resources to be concentrated on those students that have the basic academic skills to move on.

So argue if you will about the merits of higher education and miss out on the real issue which is the inability or unwillingness of this countries baby boomer generation to educate its youngest citizens and future leaders. We are not only dooming their future but our own as well.

 

Student loans are much more expensive due to the act mentioned in opening post. This is not false info- the false info is (as usual) coming from Bush's mouth.

 

How about extending high school into 13th and 14th grades?

 

Why? If they've failed to educate the kids for 12 years, why would two more years make any difference?

 

You heard incorrectly, it was more teachers in math and science for high school education not higher education. Big difference.

 

Here is an article from the Christian Science Monitor on the No Child Left Behind Federal program.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0819/p03s01-legn.html

If you are wary of the source, don't read it.

 

This is the plan, it's for the Primary and Secondary level of education.

Remember way back in 1983 when we had a study conducted to “cure what was wrong with education”. I believe it was called “A Nation at Risk”, and it related to the same short comings that studies indicate we are recognizing now. We are short-changing our students in the primary and secondary level of education. That has given us 23 years to ‘fix’ the problem. Have we accomplished anything? NO! In fact it has become a bigger ‘jip’.
How have we tried to fix this dilemma? Simple, we cut the number of hours per year that a student need to spend on his studies, and count everything including underwater basket weaving toward graduation. Oh yes, way back in the 80’s they had a big push for math and science teachers just like the plan to raise the number of these teachers again. Didn’t work then, and it won’t work now. Wait and see! That is if they even implement the program.

 

I do not see why illegal aliens are getting full scholarships to American Colleges and if the liberials really care about the poor or working class of America, they should be demanding that the democrat and republican parties do something about that. For the rich and uppermiddle class will always be able to afford higher education.

I have children who have tested gifted, top 1% range. Yet the county has just broken up its' gifted program and once again expanded its' English as a Second Language programs that caters mostly to illegal aliens.

Illegal aliens are very expensive on the american school system and this hype that they pay taxes is a joke when one looks at the aid and resouces that they get and is spent on them never mind the "real" number of dollars.

But the gifted kids who may have been the kids who find those cures for bird flu, cancer whatever are having their potential cut for illegals to get an education in spanish in American schools.

 

It's just plain odd that you are calling liberals to the carpet when it is a little program your Republican administration put in place that has caused the gifted programs to be canceled. I know what I'm talking about in this regard because all of our gifted programs have also been canceled thanks to No Child Left Behind unfunded mandates. Where did the Federal gov't. think schools were going to get the money from? Canceling gifted programs was a no-brainer for public schools. Why do more when the Federal gov't. requires you to bring failing students up to speed at the cost of ignoring those at grade level or higher? It is, however, a Republican characteristic to blame everything on illegal aliens and immigrants. Please catch a clue Andy and go back and read my previous posts in this thread. Try the link too. Maybe you can properly direct your blame next time.

 

Just a side note on this point, and I really don't have any documentation to prove it one way or another, BUT....it may be entirely possible that the so called Illegal aliens are the only ones that can pass the entrance examinations.
Sad to say, but the majority of OUR students are not qualified. Not because they aren't smart enough, but because the schools have failed to provide the means to be successful in higher education or in some cases life itsellf.

Have you ever noticed how many adult young people are moving back in with their parents. Or the number of Grandparents who are trying to raise their grandchildren. They just aren't prepared to face what this old world hands them and its back to the nest.:desk:

 

Moen if you look at my post again you will see that I said the liberals should take both the republican and democrats to task on this. I mentioned liberals because historically they cared more about education then anyone else. Both parties are equally to blame and lets face the truth neither party wants to seriously address illegal aliens and border control when they in power for neither party wants to lose any of the hispanic vote. Which I do not think they would lose since alot of Americans of spanish descent are not so thrilled with what is going on either. But the perception is there. Now I also mentioned liberals for they seem to ignore the illegal aspect of funding for schools and how much is drained for ESOL textbooks, ESOL Teachers, ESOL Tutors,etc..where I live ESOL kids get everything free including school uniforms, backpacks, breakfast, lunch, and afterschool program that other parents have to pay for. So in a way our property taxes are not going towards our kids as much as it is being directed to someone who is living here illegally. Of course we would not be so cross if they were learning English and becoming Americanized into the melting pot/toss salad culture but since they are being catered to in spanish they have become a spanish school within a school. As for school boards the last two were voted out yet the same policies come into play so this issue is above them.
As for the conservatives, the Republican party as it is now has sold them out in so many ways. No way could anyone look at the Bush Administration as being conservative with all of his spending, his willingness to allow so many T-bills to be sold, which the Saudi's and China with its phony money buy and gain power over us with the roll-over issue, and his lack of concern for the borders and cultural issues.

Personally, I do not see this nation staying a world power much longer unless we get some real leadership from either party and both partys realizing that politics is one thing but the security of our nation to survive should always be the uniteding factor as it has in the past.

 

That is a thought and some of the things you say in your second paragraph have merit however there are different standards for ESOL/illegal alliens then your Afro-American, Asian American, or any American for that matter. They are for the most part underqualified for higher education and they could get into Universitys without even knowing english for ESOL services are provided. Of course this would vary by state and by private university but it is widespread.
Moen is this the case where your wife works as well?
It is where there are big illegal populations like Florida and New York.

 

There is MUCH more to know today than 50 years ago. We used to go up to 6th or 8th grade it may make sense to kick in 2 more grades.

 

A Nation at Risk was discredited. It is not to be taken as legit.

 

One thing I must say, only a handfull of international students gets scholarships to American Colleges. Rest pays for their education. International students pay twice the amount americans pays for colleges.

 

Not Mexicans in California.