Be careful dr moen, BO is coming after you & your phd

Student loans are just one option if you can't afford to pay for tuition. More and more it is the only option as pell grand are blocked by republicans, other student aid is cut again by republicans, and state supported schools are getting less and less financial support to subsidize the cost of tuition again as a result of republicans crying "crisis" and slashing everything to do with education.

 

Are you in denial or have you not read the numerous articles to which I linked? I think I struck a nerve with you dr moen,phd...perhaps you'll develop a conscious sooner than later.

 

Colleges are an enterprise like any other and they compete for customers (students in this case). If the product is too expensive they are forced to come up with easy ways to make it "affordable" which is where the student loans come in. Dr moen, phd wants to blame everyone else for the high cost of education but responsibility also falls on the schools themselves. In other threads he has posted about how benevolent colleges are & he recently painted a very rosy picture regarding the financial condition of his school. Why aren't the schools helping bring their costs down instead of raising tuition every year? Colleges & universities are the most profitable businesses in the country, plus they sit on mountains of cash in the form of endowments & other contributions. Dr moanin, phd expects gov't to subsidize his industry while profits remain high & the price they charge continues to skyrocket.

 

Dunno, but I do know that my 14 year old hasn't taken solace in the arms of an adult (parent sanctioned apparently) to make up for whatever is missing at home as seems to be the case at your place. Gee, talk about dysfunctional.

 

Everyone already knows that student loans are crushing people with debt when they graduate. I have spelled out very clearly why education has gotten more expensive. The links you posted to the articles all say that student loan debt has increased and is a huge burden on graduates. Nothing in any of those stories says anything about your claim that universities are duping naive college students into loans they cannot afford.

Again, you have provided no proof of your accusation but feel it is I that is in denial. Provide proof of your accusation that universities like mine are preying on naive students and saddling them with huge debts or just shut your mouth. You obviously can't come up with one iota of proof so it basically comes down to your asinine opinion alone.

Maybe it is just that your only alternative to pay for your kids schooling is student loans and that is fueling your resentment. You can't admit that your poor planning and political priorities have come home to roost and you just want to blame others for your situation? Ya think? I think a nerve has been struck and I think that it is yours.

 

That is total BS. Why am I not surprised? Isn't it nice to get someone's opinion that actually knows nothing about the subject of which they speak? He can't offer any proof of any of his claims but can't change his opinion either. Typical Rightie!

 

OK but what are the other options David? they still have overheads such as staff salaries, maintinence costs etc just like any other buisness are other organisations lowering there costs across the US in response to the worsening financial situations? has gas gone down or how about electricity? or have bank charges! You keep saying other options but what are they?

 

In most colleges, the vast, vast majority of cost is for salaries. That doesn't mean that the salaries are high it just means that colleges are a very dependent on human resources rather than the costs of marketing, raw materials, logistics, and all the other expenses associated with for-profit businesses. No one can argue that as a group, there is no other institution that has as highly educated people as academia. Even so, the ratio of educational level to salary level if far, far, lower specifically in that 20 years of education gets you a 35K a year starting job while in the private sector a 4-year degree can bring a starting salary double that or even higher.
If you seriously want to reduce the cost of education in an institution, the wiggle room you have is to shed personnel. Our colleges budget is eaten up by the reality that 94% of our bedget is going to salaries and the other 6% is going to everything else. Travel, maintenance, supplies, equipment, technology, and every other expense. We have a lot of people doing a lot of teaching for very little money. Haven't seen raises in years. Have had to give back money allocated to us in past budgets and have had to freeze all hiring. When people leave or just retire, they are not replaced forcing us to make already underpaid staff do even more. Some lucrative business here?
But David is the expert on the finances of higher education. He has so much experience in the field! I’d like to know exactly where we are supposed to be cutting expenses at the same time our enrollments are increasing. Do we just sit people in a classroom and have them read a book?

 

The first jobs they 'shed' are the maintenance personnel, the people with the lowest salaries and the greatest need. That ain't right lol

 

Funny, every business out there faces the same challenges, don't they?

 

Those blood thirsty, greedy corporations! Oh, you were talking about the colleges?

 

Still waiting for you to tell me the alternative options David! A college is a buisiness it sells a product in exactly the same manner as a Bank or a motor company, now why should they lower fees? after all if they do this then they have less capital to invest in staff new infrastructures etc and they should be allowed to pay the best performing heads of departments decent bonus as well as other incentives dont you agree?

 

I absolutely agree but they can't have it both ways. I liken these student loan salesmen to mortgage lenders and credit card companies. They sell the "now, now, now" without any consideration to the long term ramifications.
You want an alternative? I paid my way through college by working multiple jobs. I paid the cost of attaining my MBA out of my pocket. It can be done.

 

Like I have repeatedly ask, show an example of these student loan salesmen. I've never met one so please show me an example of one.

 

Look into the mirror...beyond the self-important image you have created for yourself

 

It seems to me that the vast majority of these on line colleges are money mills. I am sure that there are people who study hard and apply themselves and respectfully obtain a degree with course work done on line but for the most part the vast majority seem bogus and are watering down what a college degree is suppose to stand for.
As for Moen, he does present well constructed concise critiques on what is current. This leads me to believe that he may not be from the University System but more of a self-educated man from the school of hard knocks. Mind you he seems a bit too leftist so it must have been a really hard knock. With that said I would vote for him over obama at least Moen was born in this county.

 

Oh Andy, you started off so well. LOL! Anyway, I have never said anything other than I am employed by a major university and I know the university system well. Private colleges and online schools I know a little about but they are really a different beast than a public university. As far as online schools like Phoenix University goes, you are absolutely right that they are for-profit money mills and they are currently being scrutinized for their practices of taking tuition and having very low graduation rates. I wasn't always an employee of a university. I have worked in retail sales, banking, at The National Alzheimer's Assoc., manufacturing, and many other types businesses in my life. I came back to academia because I always liked the environment. Smart people, energetic students, learning opportunities galore, and a calm atmosphere with interesting people. I took a severe pay cut to work here but I have never been happier. I'd recommend it to anybody.
David on the other hand, has only had experience working in one type of business. He sells widgets or whatever and knows exactly zero about academia outside of his early years as a student who knows how long ago if ever. But he thinks he is the authority on Higher Ed. If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny.

 

How would you know even if it were true, which it isn't but how would YOU know? The answer is you wouldn't. You can’t produce one example of the type of behavior that you are so sure exists. I get the feeling by your dancing and dodging that you'd really like to just drop the whole subject so that you don't have me asking again and again for proof of your assertion that you never seem to be able to provide. Sucks to be you eh?

 

....and dr moen, phd believes if you repeat a lie often enough people will start believing it. I graduated from a public university & earned my MBA from a private school. My wife has her Masters in Education and is currently working through nursing school. As far as my work experience, dr moen, phd is being less than honest again (imagine that). Though I did work for a very large international bank for nearly 20 years I worked in other industries before that & after I left the bank. I have also owned various businesses, worked for charitable groups & currently work a small farm in addition to my day job. So just make sure you take anything dr moen,phd says with a grain of salt.

 

There's that little twinge of guilt showing through!
Your fervent defense of the student loan industry & your quick attempts to re-direct every thread regarding the speaks volumes. I understand that you are so personally vested in selling as many student loans as possible that you can't possibly be objective. So there you go.