There was a fantastic video this week by John Oliver (I know, I know) covering far more eloquently what I have been trying to say for a while on bail reform laws. NSFW (language), and long, but try to watch at least some of it Main points I want to make about bail reform that he covers better: 1. Bail keeps both innocent and guilty people locked up if they are poor. It's not a safety test, it's a wealth test. 2. Because our courts are so overclogged, right to a "speedy" trial is violated frequently for those who cannot afford bail. 3. Bail destroys the lives of many innocent people and doesn't make the streets any safer on average
A Socialist does support that POV. Until it backfires (which it always does). Examining why courts are over clogged would be a god starting point (hint: it sure the hell isn't because of Bail). Maybe, just maybe, off the top of my head, it is because MORE PEOPLE ARE COMMITING CRIMES AGAINST SOCIETY? Maybe because Socialism is NOT SUPORTING LEO OR DEMANDING THE ENFORCEMENT OF THE LAW? Maybe THAT has to be addressed, and then we can move on to the rest. Good Lord.
Here's the deal Gene. ALL folks are arrested for a reason. It's a good bet that a majority of them are guilty. I say leave the bail system as is or lower it at the judges discretion for minor crimes done by first offenders. A speedy trial will help every one. Then the innocent and the guilty will not be locked up for long. See below as many would not make it to jail at all. You get speedy trials when the criminal system is not bogged down. In my fantasy world, do a serious crime to another person with no ambiguity and you are killed immediately. Well not immediately. They need time to drive you to the alligator pen and set up the pay-per-view cameras with all proceeds going to pay down the national debt. Now stealing a car is not serious so that person would have their dominate hand chopped off. Learning to use the other hand will develop their brain. You can guess what we do to rapists. That's right, throw them to the crocks also but first do what you were thinking. You can learn more about the ideal justice system at the Attila-the-Hun School of Justice.
Why do you think America is such an outlier in incarceration rates then? Wouldn't it be more fair to say that American law and law enforcement is more prone to jailing people rather than Americans are more prone to commiting crimes inherently? If it were a small difference in incarceration rate, I might be able to see your point, but that we have nearly triple the incarceration rate of men comparing to similar countries is an absolute indictment of our system. 1 in ~140 men behind bars is a disaster and something you'd expect to see in a tyrannical autocracy, not here. Worst of all, these numbers are an improvement over our past (dramatic rise during the Reagan era)
Here's the deal from the other side. That "reason" isn't always a good or correct one. Law enforcement officers get things wrong, a lot. That's the point here, that is explicitly not true. Until a trial is held and they are convicted by a jury of their peers, our constitution says they are by definition innocent. Even if you ignore the constitutional violation argument, look at this example from Chicago's recent data on how cases are being processed. A large percent of charges (presumably many of which started with an arrest) are eventually dismissed. Bear in mind that you can still have innocent people in all the other categories of that figure as well. All that to say that if you believe Then I will take you up on that bet any day of the week
I think it has a lot to do with living in what was once a "free" country. Folks are free to cause mayhem. Today there are few consequences for burning buildings and rioting. Now in my fantasy world, protests would be encouraged; however, do something stupid like damaging property and you would be shot dead! You see Gene, dead lawbreakers done break any more laws. It is a great lesson in proper human behavior.
That's just not true, we punish the most of our citizens of any country on earth by having the highest incarceration rate. Rwanda is second, and it's not even that close of a second. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/incarceration-rates-by-country Something something facts don't care about your feelings
Gene brings up the American Justice system: That's the point here, that is explicitly not true. Until a trial is held and they are convicted by a jury of their peers, our constitution says they are by definition innocent. That's right! So all it takes is a few months of adjustment to cut crime to virtually ZERO. A (presumed innocent - BS) man pushes someone in front of a train and is caught. He goes straight to the Croc Pit right after we torture him on TV for a few hours. A (presumed innocent - BS) guy steals a car and the cops catch him after a chase. Right to the Crocs right after we torture him. I can see it now live streaming of criminals being tortured AROUND THE CLOCK. Go to one channel and - screaming bloody murder, go to the next and screaming bloody murder. A real hell on earth TV. Good for lowering the crime rate and population at the same time. And don't think all those organs for transplant are going to the crocs either. Good people need eyes, livers, kidneys, etc. Oh, I think China may be ahead of us on that. It must work.
I don't know what state you live in you ignorant old man! In my state they can walk into a store steal up to $700 9Higher in other states) in front of everyone and walk out free as a bird! It is the Liberal democrat way. You can Blah, blah, link, link all you want. This country is broke beyond repair and only drastic change might save it (see below). Here is a news flash for you "Jack." You are not being told that we have troops on the ground in Ukraine, our B-52's are in Europe, our Air Force has gone "Dark." We are in DEFCON 2, and Russia has declared war on Britain for blowing up the pipeline. PS The world would not be in this mess if the election was not stolen. The world DID NOT WANT TRUMP IN POWER and they took him out.
Good Night Gene. You had better get some water, bullets, and supplies because all hell is raining down. The democrats cannot afford to have a mid term. IF there are elections, Biden is going to rule EXCLUSIVELY BY EXECUTIVE ORDER. Now let's see what comes true.
@GeneWright, this is MY REALITY. A man hits another man with a hammer. Some not FAKE NEWS outlets report that he did it when the police were in the same room with them! Man goes to trial and PLEADS NOT GUILTY! It's too bad the "men" with little girls feelings in our country think they know all about justice and fairness. This case will go on for years w/appeals, mental tests, etc... Our justice system is Stinks!!! He is sane enough to throw good parties, attend Berkley, promote BLM. Swift justice = lay him in the road and let a road paver flatten his legs up to his thighs and remain on him until he dies so he does not bleed out! All on Pay-Per-View of course.
Please answer his question. Aren't you better than the two Ignorant posters here who DODGE, DUCK, SHUCK, and piss all over a thread?
@charley You have my apology. I forgot that you already Smacked down @GeneWright with your reply. Color me stupid.
Yes. I think we both made it very clear. SCREW BAIL REFORM. It is just one more way the enemies of our country have devised to DESTROY OUR SOCIAL SYSTEM and country. You should know, you appear to be one of them. Ignore the cause and and the solution while dealing with some of the consequences - bail, speedy trials.
