Any of you try the political compass website?

I'd also add, with regards to entrepreneurship, I'd much rather have a government that stifles the creativity of those developing the next iPhone with taxes but then uses those taxes to invest in the scientific community.

Science in general has been woefully underfunded as of late.

 

Well, as is often said, “We shall agree to disagree”

Government seems to be your religion. You want to make it all powerful and can’t see the inherent problems with concentrating power in the hands of a comparatively small number of people. Even if they are angels, who can’t be corrupted, and want only what’s best for people, their vision and data processing abilities are too small to reach the best solutions. If they are crooked and looking out mostly for themselves, you will have tyranny.

I believe in democracy and economic diversity. I believe in allowing as many of the members of the population to pursue their dreams, be it a Steve Jobs tinkering in his garage or an Asian immigrate or an African-American who is looking to open a corner grocery store.

The system is not perfect. It will never give everyone the same income, which something you seem to want. There are winners and losers, but it does generate enough income to compensate the losers, which all any democratic society can do.

 

So, in have several issues with what you have asserted, but I want to address 1 thing in particular. Why do you keep insisting I "worship" government?

It makes no sense to me. I want them to have more hand in economic issues for sure, but I'm but saying it will be perfect, I just believe it will be closer to a better world for everyone than we have now.

Also, it would seem I have far greater belief in personal liberties than you on non-economic issues. Why do you think the government should control the facets of your personal life so heavily? That seems more stifling to creativity to me than limiting your money. In fact, in think if a system where individuals have nothing to worry about with regards to rent, public transit, employment, healthcare, staying fed, etc. would allow people to pursue their passions more freely.

What if the next Steve Jobs never gets the chance to invent something because they're forced to work multiple jobs to pay their children's medical bills?

 

You worship government because you want to give it so much power. Once it gets that power, getting it back is almost impossible without a revolution. You want it to tax more. You want it to re-distribute income and net worth to whatever standards you support. You don't seem to be all upset by the way the FBI using lies presented to FISA Court interfered in the last presidential election. What they were up to had all the trappings of an emerging police state.

You probably the publicc financing of poltical campaigns. That sounds good to an extreme liberal or socialist on the surface, but who determines which candidates get the money? If it is other politicians, you should recognize that for what it is. Good old boys and girls taking care of the good old boy and girl network.

And what aspects of that to you believe I support state control? I support gay marriage. I voted "strongly agree" with responsible gay couples adopting children. I am for early term abortion although I strongly oppose infanticide and very late term abortions that don't involve saving the life of the mother. I think that the FISA Court is dangerous and needs to be monitored if not shut down.

Every one of those positions are wrong so far as many conservatives are concerned except for perhaps the FISA Court.

How do I get out of your “pig pen?” Do I have to roll over and tell you everything you want to hear? Do have I have to agree with Karl Marx?

In many ways I am a moderate is scared to death of the direction the Democrat Party as taken. I saw it happening in the later 1960s and early ‘70s at the anti-Vietnam War rallies. There were the young communists dominating things with some strange little middle-aged men wearing poorly cut suits standing in the wings. I heard the violent differences when the Jewish students argued with the hard core who wanted put the State of Israel into the sea. And no, I’m not Jewish.

These radicals have taken over the education system. They don’t believe in the democratic principles upon which this nation was founded. They indoctrinate instead of teach. They censor rather than listen. They don’t want free discussions of the issues. They impose “political correctness,” which nothing more than saying, “We’re right; you are wrong; now shut-up! End of discussion.”

 

I couldn't say for sure where we differ, but I would ask you to please elaborate on the FBI FISA court situation you brought up.

It may be helpful in elucidating where we disagree to see how it was answered. I've attached screenshots for the larger 2 sections concerning social issues

 

While I can't remember them specifically, I think there were three or four questions which, if written a bit more incisively, would have produced different answers on my part.

 

The trouble is that you can no more control where government spends the taxes it would take from Apple (or other concerns) than the revenue it takes from us already . . .

 

Let's qualify your statement right now . . .

Science in general has been woefully underfunded by government as of late, but it has been very generously funded by private industry.

 

Please, tell me what amazing discoveries privately funded science has brought about recently.

Why would private industry ever fund discovery for it's own sake? In private research, there always has to be an investment and profits potentially tied to the research. Meanwhile, government funded research often lets academics explore unanswered questions about something they're interested in without requiring a return on investment.

 

Congress created the FISA Court was after 9/11 to deal with terrorism and other domestic threats. It works largely in secret and seems to provide a blank check to the government to get whatever police actions it wants. That includes searches, wire taps and arrest warrants. It has gone along with what the government wants something like 98% of the time. Potential defendants are not allowed any representation at all.

People on both parties have raised issues about this overly secretive arm of the judiciary. It seems to provide more of a rubber stamp than a real judicial consideration of the evidence.

Okay, here is the political part. The FBI used the FISA Court to go after members of the Trump campaign. The basis was the Steel Dossier which was supplied by a British intelligence agent who was no fan of the president. It was obtained from the Russians and the funding for it came from the Hillary Clinton campaign. The investigation continues, but the FBI has fessed up to falsifying some of the evidence to get warrants they wanted.

Democrats might sit back and say “Fine, I don’t like Trump and they did what I would want them to do.” They don’t think about the issue that abuse can be leveled at both sides, and in the end all of us could lose our civil rights.

I am not a big fan of courts that operate in totally in secret. Where possible governments should run their operations in the light of day. If you don’t, you are headed down the roads taken by totalitarian regimes.

 

Well written, and I very much agree with you on that point. I'm grateful the recent Senate confirmation of the FBI's findings deliberately excluded Intel related to the Steele Dossier.

Do you remember the question about government going too far in curbing our liberties in the name of anti-terrorism? How do you feel about that? On my end, I believe the goverment has used every national tragedy since 9/11 to seize more power and create a surveillance state. Maybe even before then, but I'm potentially too young to remember the importance.

Before the last election, I really admired Julian Assange, Chelsea Manning, and Edward Snowden. I still like the last 2, especially Snowden, but Assange was clearly compromised. It's a shame that we have to rely on whistleblowers to be our checks and balances in the intel gathering world.

 

Sorry, I wrote that a few days ago, but somehow forgot to post it. It was "hangfired." I am glad that we could agree on something.

Now here is the next point. Some people in the government are ready to use this pandemic to expand the power and reach of government.

Are there dangers from the disease? You bet. Can we continue as we are now? No way. The basic food supply and the economy will collapse resulting in more deaths and social disruption than what has been caused by the disease.

 

It remains to be seen if anyone will try to make anything permanent, but I'll keep a close eye. Absolutely I'd agree any stimulus should be limited to the duration of the disaster and recovery period.

I also would agree something like a universal basic income isn't sustainable from where we stand now, but it's something I'd hope future generations get to benefit from down the road

 

I believe I am the only person on the authoritarian side of things. Fascinating.

 

I think that if you strongly disagree with the socialist statement of principles, “To each his ability, to each his need,” your dot will end up in “a bad place” so far as the left is concerned.

What is left out of that mini manifesto is the clause that all people, who are sound in mind and body, have an obligation to contribute their part to the economy and not expect to live off the labors of others. It would interesting to see how the questions are weighted.

 

Alright, I finally got around to doing this damn thing and apparently, I am the next coming of Gandhi. Who knew?

 

Hello,

Newcomer here. Been lurking a short time. Will probably lurk/like more than "speak".

My Political Compass results:


Economic Left/Right: -2.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.38

 

Welcome....and duck! But not necessarily in that order.