And ALL the Cons Running for POTUS Want the Rich to Pay Even LESS!

Yep, and personal responsibility would be the name of the game again. The federal government wasn't supposed to be involved in education, health care, or transportation to begin with.

 

So what does this say about the Grover Norquist Pledge?

 

It is if the people want it to be. It's our government. We can structure it any way we want. But it really is kind of irrelevant (see Stujoe above).

 

I was a little off on the numbers but the result is really the same. I would revise my post to:

Budget is about 3.6 trillion. Income and Payroll Revenues are about 2 trillion. Deficit is 1 trillion. You do some basic math on those numbers and you would end up with a federal budget of about 300 billion since we need several hundred billion dollars a year just to service the current debt at today's low interest rates (which would probably not stay low if we eliminated 80 plus % of our revenue intake).

So, at most, you would have 300 billion dollars (and probably less as soon as interest rates rose) to fund anything you want the government to do, such as...have a military, print money, take care of veterans, have homeland security, have a foreign policy, secure the borders...little stuff like that.

 

I'm not sure that I care if the federal government goes broke and defaults on debt. The income tax was supposed to be an emergency implementation and then became normalized over time as the government grew to believe it couldn't live within it's means. The government should be able to live off the taxes and tariffs that were meant to feed the beast and not off the backs of the average citizen. The Representatives and Senators should go back to holding part-time positions, the states should have some of their powers returned to them and the people should be able to benefit from their actions. I know it will never happen, but as long as we allow the federal government unfettered access to our money, no amount of taxes on any individuals, rich or poor, will ever be enough.

 

Why stop there? Here is a list of powers never given to the Federal Government. Should we do away with all of them too? I don't want to be selective and just get rid of the things I don't like and I'm sure you don't either. So let's not cherry pick our way though the Federal Government's powers.

The Air Force
A Standing Army
Congressional Districts
The Electoral College
Executive Order
Executive Privilege
Freedom of Expression
(Absolute) Freedom of Speech and Press
"From each according to his ability..."
God
Immigration
Impeachment means removal from office
Innocent until proven guilty
It's a free country
Judicial Review
Jury of Peers
"Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness"
Marriage
Martial Law
No taxation without representation
Number of Justices in the Supreme Court
"Of the people, by the people, for the people"
Paper Money
Political Parties
Primary Elections
Qualifications for Judges
The right to privacy
The right to travel
The right to vote
The separation of church and state
The Separation of Powers Clause
Slavery
"We hold these truths to be self-evident"

 

(adds)...have a President, a Congress, a Judicial system, National Parks sytem (though they could sell 'em... it's legally allowed to sell State assets in Michigan under the new Governor... if they are not making a profit. No employees= no profit=sell Yellowstone and Mount Rushmore to China), etc.

*not advocating we sell National Parks to China... just reminding people where our (Federal) government may head if we allow it... Michigan allowed it and it's State Law now... and the idea can potentially become Federal Law.

 

Man wasn't meant to fly either, and if we hadn't, we'd have saved a lot of money by not ever having an FAA.

But, I think the cat's out of that bag. And the same applies for many things the government does now compared to 200 plus years ago.

 

Oops... Moen beat me to it lol

 

Moen, I'm not sure about your point. Are you saying to throw out the Bill of Rights and the subsequent amendments?

Hey, all I'm saying is that if people don't like taxes for the rich and you don't like taxes for the poor, then why not just get rid of them? Obviously, there are things that progress have made necessary for living in today's modern world, but to say our government is bloated is simply being kind. We can't just tell the government that it's the dress that makes them look heavy--something needs to be done and soon in order to get our country solvent again. Clearly, just making cuts isn't enough. We need to find someone brave enough to look at departments for redundant posts and getting rid of them.

 

Can I start by suggesting Congress?

 

Like I said, why not have both the House and the Senate return to part-time work? That would naturally be accompanied by a cut in pay.

 

So fight for it. It's OUR government. We are or should be in charge. It's not like this country is written in stone. That's why the Founders left things somewhat vague and open to interpretation. They didn't know exactly what future generations were going to encounter. Or how they would want to live. That's why they put in mechanisms for achieving change.

And of course they themselves opted for the ultimate mechanism for change: flat out rebellion. As British subjects the Founders rebelled against the legitimate authority of the king and his government. Regardless of how justified their course of action might have been, they were traitors and they knew it. I don't know obviously, but I like to think that they wanted to provide us the rights and avenues that they didn't have so that we could institute change without having to go to the extreme that they did. Unfortunately it seems like we aren't as free they had hoped we'd be.

 

I have posted this before but not in a while...

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/02/01/us/budget.html

You can play 'find the cuts'.

 

Rebellion is the sport of the young. Unfortunately, I'm no longer in that number. However, I think I'm just subversive enough to write texts in favor of a justified rebellion and I am learning how to farm organically, raise my own chickens and rabbits, and how to shoot (hey, I shot a stump once!). I also have basic needlework and nursing skills and in a year will be a licensed counselor, so I'd not be entirely useless if I had to be. Right now, though, I'm happy to compete with my dogs and finish my education.

I think the Founding Fathers did a great job in setting this country into motion. Somewhere along the line, though, we messed up.

 

We messed up when we decided that our grandkids could pay for our excesses by way of the national debt we were going to leave them.

But, then our excesses got bigger and we had to get ok with our kids paying for them. And we got ok with that. Now, dang it, our excesses are so big that we have to pay for it ourselves. And we don't wanna! lol

 

Well I think you are in good company, and accomplished and wise as well. You certainly share a lot of the healthy cynicism regarding government generally that my partner has. I'm the idealist in the family. But since he can't vote being only a resident alien, he focuses on politics in Japan and only rarely gives me the benefit of his opinion on what's going on here, to the extent that he has an opinion at all. He'd much rather make a batch of popcorn in the wok and watch a movie.