Abortion Smoothie

You said you "cut your losses to 10 years", I assumed.. Must have been your 10 years as a cop you were referring to. I didn't realize you killed that man as a cop.

I just told you, sorry, you didn't answer when I asked you about what you said weeks ago.

You do seem to have anger issues..

Talkin about yourself again there bud..

 

He condemned himself, that's what I was showing him.

Yes, you're correct. I assume they want the same treatment they give, just like I've done with you. When it stops, I stop as well.

Me too.. Stop it at the source, not the recipient.

Couldn't I then argue that I was defending my "freedom", and "protecting" my rights as an individual to "shirk" my responsibilities of doing everything in my power to force another person to carry a pregnancy to term?

 

Way to not be the bigger man about it...

That's just it, You are part of the source. By your own thought process: Why should they quit when you dish it out as well?

Do you not see that this circular "he started it, so I have to continue it" baloney leads nowhere???

Defending and protection of life vs. irresponsible taking of a life? I don't think I agree with you. Your rights as an individual should not allow you to take an innocent life, just for the sake of inconvenience (but for now they do, even though I don't think they should.) And that isn't what happens in a war.

Another thing I thought of:
I don't know of a time when the U.S. has attacked someone without some sort of provocation. Ignoring warnings, ignoring U.N. resolutions, mistreatment of people, threatening (or attack) of our allies, attack of us, etc.

What kind of warning does an unborn baby have? What has it done to harm anyone else?

 

Don't worry about me unless it concerns you.

They can do whatever they want.. so can I. And I know what I'm doing. You've seemed to mellow out as of late.. Some stop after the first time, others take years, but eventually, they stop.

Don't worry about me, I eat what I choose to eat, some I like to spit in the cooks face. You handle individuals as you see fit, I'll do the same.

Not as convenient to compromise and cooperate without murder as an option I presume..

When did Vietnam attack? Panama? Grenada? Iraq? Afghanistan? Etc....

 

You got just that one word (attack) out of all this, huh?

 

Apparently..

 

Thanks for being so reasonable, Snafu, but I don't see what you mean. The guy in question never even tried to discuss this with his partner, so we don't actually know if he had no say.

All I know is that he extinguished a life without first consulting the mother, which hurts me to my core.

Now, I sense that some of you are assuming I am pro-abortion. Not once in this thread have I actually said that. I simply believe in respecting other people's choices about their own bodies. I don't feel that I have the right to tell another woman what to do with her own body, and I don't feel that I have the right to tell two possible parents that they have to keep the baby.
I don't like it that babies are being killed, but frankly, who the hell am I to assume that I know what's best for another family?

As for what may seem like a pro-abortion stance, please let me clarify my position.

I care that

a) doctor-performed abortions are legally available to people who do need them

b) If possible, that the abortion is discussed at length by both parents before a decision is made

c) If an agreement cannot be accomplished, then the woman gets the final decision. This is because, ultimately, it's her body. If she wants to keep the baby, she should be able to. If she doesn't want to keep the baby, she shouldn't have to.
Naturally, I think the fathers' feelings should be taken into serious consideration - but if the two have reached a stalemate and cannot agree, then someone needs to have the final say.
That is not to say that women currently do have the final say. Nobody in this thread has actually been able to prove that all abortions undertaken have been the result of a lone decision by a woman.

d) that all the blame is not put on the woman's shoulders - especially not in every single instance. As has been made abundantly clear by the news article in question in this thread, there are men out there who do not want to be fathers, and who are pro-abortion.

 

Well your right in this instance. I was kinda using this case as a reference to other fathers that might want to abort the child. I do think he endangered the mother and aborted the fetus making it a crime also.

I like this stance except in America a teenager or any women can go and get an abortion without her parents or partners acknowledgment or consent. So the man gets no say so. And I don't agree that the women should get the last say because it's the babies body not hers.

 

I don't think anyone ever said that all abortions are a lone decision by a woman. The problem is that women always do have that final say. She can go and abort it against the father's wishes, or even before telling him that she was ever pregnant. In the end, the woman, does have the final decision (with the exception of being slipped a smoothie).

I also don't think that anyone ever said that all of the blame is that of the woman, just that (again excluding a smoothie) in the end, all of the choice is.

The main issue here is why is it murder when the man decides to abort the baby against the wishes or knowledge of the woman, but perfectly legal for the woman to abort the same baby against the wishes or knowledge of the man? It's clearly a gender biased criminal charge.

 

And I really hope this case keeps coming to the for front from now on when abortion debates and laws come up. I think its a very valid point.

 

Honestly, I'm not pro - abortion either. It wasn't a pleasant, or easy decision, but a decision I felt was the proper and responsible one to make. I'm not proud nor happy about the decision we made and I'm mostly not proud of the fact that I stayed in a sick relationship for so many years. I do know I wouldn't ever agree to do it again, but I would never try to guilt or shame a woman into doing anything other than what she wanted to do, even if I was the father. I know where my say and influence over the matter should stop. But as far as banning abortion, no way. I'm a man, it's not my place to claim domain over a womans body or reproductive system.

 

And I've made bad choices in my life too. So I don't blame you. I'd like to know if anybody here hasn't ****ed up at one point or another.

 

I know you don't snaf.. you're a good man. You don't need to try to knock people down so you can stand up. Not a finer quality can an individual have IMO..

 

I don't think it's clearly a gender-biased thing at all.

I think the horror of this case is that he deliberately and surreptitiously slipped her a drug that killed their baby, not once, but twice.

I'm sure you'd agree that men who slip women drugs in clubs in order to take them home and rape them are criminals.

His behaviour is criminal.

That doesn't mean I don't see the double standard in women being able to get abortions without telling their partner (I actually agree that the father should be consulted in every abortion case).

It will be great if he's put on trial and charged, and his case brings to light all the holes and inconsistencies in abortion legislation.

 

And a rather evolved man at that. Cheers for understanding how I feel about it.

 

And I agree that that's unfair. I hope it changes.

I totally respect your opinion (and I am not just saying that) but I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this point.

 

Ya see........this is exactly why women aren't allowed to vote in America. Too much attitude.

 

Pantera Fan

 

Yes I think so.

LMAO.. There's one in every crowd.

 

So why is it only murder if the man kills a baby?

Seriously, I can 100% support charges be made against the man in this case for assault and battery, maybe a few other charges, a person should never sneek any substance into a drink without informing the person drinking it.

The collection of cells in the mother's womb is either life or not. If it is murder to kill that collection of cells when a man does it, then it sould be murder to kill the same collection of cells when the woman does it.

This has been the entire point for this thread, why is it only murder in the eyes of the law if the man kills the child?

No, the horror is the 1.2 million "legal" killings of children by women, many late term children that could survive outside the womb.

There is a good question for you, it seems the pro-choice crowd only want to talk about things like rape and first term abortions but there are hundreds of thousands of second and third terms aborted every year as well, do you believe a third term child is not life as well?

Anyone worth a damn would agree this is wrong, as I said above, he should be given very strict penalties for slipping a drug into the drink, the point in question is why the clump of cells is only life if the man kills it.

Of course, just not murder or attempted murder if we are going to be fair.

But you also agree that the man does not have any "right" in that decision, you clearly say that if the man wants the child, and the woman does not, she should be allowed to kill the child.

As already pointed out, it is the baby's body, not yours.

I don't wish that kind of thing on anyone. He should not be raked accross the coals as some kind of poster child for the inequalities of the legal system in favor of women.

Fair is fair, it is either life to be protected by the law, from both women and men, or it is not. How can a legal system be balanced if the child is only a child if a man kills it?




By the way, I would truly like you to respond to my point you dodged about how the woman does have a choice, the choice to have risky sex. Why is it you women want to hold a man responsible without a way to dodge that responsibility if he makes a child out of a mistake, but you feel it is completely reasonable for the woman to have a way to dodge her responsibility for the same action?



Wez, I only pressured you on your killing of your child because of the high and mighty attitude you display here attacking everyone else for stuff when you have done something ten times worse. I was making a point, and made it well because the second you were pressured by that fact, you defined yourself.

Instead of claiminf full responsibility and admitting you were wrong for killing a life, you started lies and counter attacks to avoid that responsibility. Then you started trying to downgrade the situation, calling that life less than life to reduce the impact of what you did.

If you simply admitted you were wrong and stopped your hatred filled attacks on others, I would agree that you deserve forgiveness but forgiveness cannot be offered to someone who refuses to completely admit their wrong.

You say you believe in the teachings of Jesus, well, in this situation what would Jesus do, would he duck and dodge his responsibility like you have been doing or would he completely admit his crime and face it like a man?