Again...you have no idea what you are talking about. The fact of the matter is that this girl willingly left her muslim faith and in Islam, you are NOT allowed to leave the faith. Islamic terrorist writings are clear on the subject. She did not make this up. Such actions for leaving Islam call for punishment which includes an honor killing. Prove to us that she lied that she is not allowed to leave the islamic faith! Go ahead and prove it! Shoot, just as recent as earlier this summer, "true" muslim animals killed four of their relatives in Canada for their abandonment of islamic principles: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/...adathe-girls-were-not-allowed-to-go-out-.html How about earlier in the year in Buffalo, NY where this muslim animal [These were "moderate" Muslims, right?] was a "prominent" Buffalo area muslim businessman who founded the BridgesTV network to improve the image [good luck with that] of Muslims in the U.S. He is charged with murdering his estranged wife – by beheading her at his company’s office. Source: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/02/beheading-in-new-york-honor-killing.html Islam treats women like 3rd class citizens...go ahead and defend this madness. I will simply point it out. It is this cult mindset that, by no surprise, will make these animals fly jets into buildings...all for the glory of their allah. 9/11/01 was caused by simply another islamic attack (though their most successful) on western civilization...these "true" muslims are the cancer of the civilized world.
All of this "melting point of steel" & WTC implosion BS is simply a diversion from the American-hating, whacko, loony conspiracy theorists. They try to get uber technical on some of these things because they know most of us can't debate the specific physics or, better yet, they know the average Joe can't dispel the crap they are slinging. Do I think a huge aircraft,full of fuel,hurdling through the skies at a tremendous rate of speed can bring down a steel & concrete building? Sounds feasible to me. Can I prove scientifically that it can happen? No For every expert that says it can't happen I am sure there are equal number that say it can happen (regardless of what is being debated). Why can't you simply understand that it was an unprovoked terror attack?
Why can't you simply understand that it was an unprovoked terror attack? ------------------------------------- Because I can THINK and I choose to THINK rather than eat the spoon fed nonsense that is slung at us on a daily basis rather than simply saying "Yup...sounds good to me". I don't hate America Sir, rather the opposite, but congrats at another mediocre attempt to make sweeping generalizations that categorize everything nice and neatly for you to take in and consume without taxing your brain too much. Fortunately, one doesn't have to be a genius to see the rather obvious treasonous lies that we were told, and continue to be told about that day. All one has to do is to pull their head out of the sand and look, and fortunately for America, more and more folks everyday now are doing just that.
Tom: First and Appolgie then some research O.K. I've been thinking about this, and I think I owe you an appolgie and would like to start again. Sory for calling you a DA and a clown exct. You have every right to your opinion and I think it is great that you chose to be a critical consumer of information. We need more people critical thinkers in this world. That being said I really think you are on the wrong side of history with this one. To start this is a quote for the Nists website. Seems prety convincing to me. " 2. Why did NIST not consider a “controlled demolition” hypothesis with matching computer modeling and explanation as it did for the “pancake theory” hypothesis? A key critique of NIST’s work lies in the complete lack of analysis supporting a “progressive collapse” after the point of collapse initiation and the lack of consideration given to a controlled demolition hypothesis. NIST conducted an extremely thorough three-year investigation into what caused the WTC towers to collapse, as explained in NIST’s dedicated Web site, http://wtc.nist.gov. This included consideration of a number of hypotheses for the collapses of the towers. Some 200 technical experts—including about 85 career NIST experts and 125 leading experts from the private sector and academia—reviewed tens of thousands of documents, interviewed more than 1,000 people, reviewed 7,000 segments of video footage and 7,000 photographs, analyzed 236 pieces of steel from the wreckage, performed laboratory tests and sophisticated computer simulations of the sequence of events that occurred from the moment the aircraft struck the towers until they began to collapse. Based on this comprehensive investigation, NIST concluded that the WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires (which reached temperatures as high as 1,000 degrees Celsius) significantly weakened the floors and columns with dislodged fireproofing to the point where floors sagged and pulled inward on the perimeter columns. This led to the inward bowing of the perimeter columns and failure of the south face of WTC 1 and the east face of WTC 2, initiating the collapse of each of the towers. Both photographic and video evidence—as well as accounts from the New York Police Department aviation unit during a half-hour period prior to collapse—support this sequence for each tower. NIST’s findings do not support the “pancake theory” of collapse, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers (the composite floor system—that connected the core columns and the perimeter columns—consisted of a grid of steel “trusses” integrated with a concrete slab; see diagram below). Instead, the NIST investigation showed conclusively that the failure of the inwardly bowed perimeter columns initiated collapse and that the occurrence of this inward bowing required the sagging floors to remain connected to the columns and pull the columns inwards. Thus, the floors did not fail progressively to cause a pancaking phenomenon. NIST’s findings also do not support the “controlled demolition” theory since there is conclusive evidence that: * the collapse was initiated in the impact and fire floors of the WTC towers and nowhere else, and; * the time it took for the collapse to initiate (56 minutes for WTC 2 and 102 minutes for WTC 1) was dictated by (1) the extent of damage caused by the aircraft impact, and (2) the time it took for the fires to reach critical locations and weaken the structure to the point that the towers could not resist the tremendous energy released by the downward movement of the massive top section of the building at and above the fire and impact floors. Video evidence also showed unambiguously that the collapse progressed from the top to the bottom, and there was no evidence (collected by NIST, or by the New York Police Department, the Port Authority Police Department or the Fire Department of New York) of any blast or explosions in the region below the impact and fire floors as the top building sections (including and above the 98th floor in WTC 1 and the 82nd floor in WTC 2) began their downward movement upon collapse initiation. In summary, NIST found no corroborating evidence for alternative hypotheses suggesting that the WTC towers were brought down by controlled demolition using explosives planted prior to Sept. 11, 2001. NIST also did not find any evidence that missiles were fired at or hit the towers. Instead, photographs and videos from several angles clearly show that the collapse initiated at the fire and impact floors and that the collapse progressed from the initiating floors downward until the dust clouds obscured the view. Hear is the link: http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm
NIST Releases Final WTC 7 Investigation Report --- Summery report http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/techbeat/tbx2008_1120_wtc7.htm the final report itself: http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/NCSTAR1Aindex.htm It is a link on the bottom that opens in a pdf. It is 130 pages long so quite the read. The file is 5mb if anyone would like I will be more than happy to .rar the file for you (it shrinks it) and e-mail it to you. Or send it via aim if you all like. Just a thought if anyone does not have broad band please pm me and I will e-mail it to you in short compresed files that are easy to download. I would Also like to try and clear one thing up. The NIST has no motive to lie about any of this. They are just scientist. They don't make money off of the findings. They got paid to do the research, as part of there salary all be it from the universitys they work for or as employees of the federal government. so redearless of the conclusions they still got the money they wanted. That is not true for many other websites in this debate. They have a vested financial interest in the truth movement continuing. Pay money for research at your own risk. Just be warned that any credible scientific research that is published can be found for free in a public library. Also the standards used to produce this research is far better than other things offered as evidence so far in this debate. I hope the difference is clear. I am not saying this to be mean, rude, or nasty in any way just trying to point out an important fact. The way information is presented is very important. I hope this post has been more easy to read, and understand. Anything that is confusing/ unclear please ask me about.
Another Website that is amazing with free informtion. The purpose of this guide is to direct users to authoritative, multidisciplinary sources of information on the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks of September 11, 2001. http://mceer.buffalo.edu/infoservice/Reference_Services/WTCGuide.asp
NIST claims that thermal expansion of steel floor beams and girders caused “global collapse.” This claim is based on highly implausible assumptions, outright fabrications, denial of the existence of structural elements that did in fact exist, and fabrication of a “differential thermal expansion” result from its computer simulations by modeling heating of the steel beams but not of the floor slabs. NIST was forced to admit that WTC 7 did indeed fall at free-fall speed for more than two seconds during its collapse, which would only be possible if all resistance to the fall had been eliminated by removal of the lower portion of the building by explosives. This demonstrates that NIST has resorted to a miraculous “explanation” of the collapse of Building 7, in which no explosives were used and yet free-fall still occurred, and has thus violated the scientific principles of non-contradiction and impermissibility of claims implying that laws of nature have been violated. There is physical evidence suggesting that the building was brought down by controlled demolition: video evidence of “squibs” of smoke and pulverized material blown laterally out of the building as it collapsed; a vertical row of blown-out windows from the 29th to the 37th floors, unexplainable by NIST’s account; molten metal in the debris under the building; an array of scientific reports of extremely high temperatures, far above the temperatures which could be reached by fires burning in office materials, as proposed by NIST; thinning and sulfidation of steel recovered from the building; extreme heat and unusual emissions at the collapse site for months afterwards; and red/gray chips found in dust from the building’s collapse, which on analysis by independent researchers Steven Jones, Kevin Ryan, Niels Harrit, and others, proved to be nanothermitic, derived from a very advanced type of explosive. NIST in its “Final Report” failed to take any of this evidence into account, simply pretending it did not exist.
6.5 seconds WTC7, which was situated on the next block over, was the farthest of the buildings from WTC1 and WTC2. WTC7 happened to contain the New York City Office of Emergency Management (OEM), a facility that was, according to testimony to the 9-11 Commission, one of the most sophisticated Emergency Command Centers on the planet. But shortly after 5:20 pm on Sept. 11, WTC7 imploded and fell to the ground in 6.5 seconds. 6.5 seconds. This is a mere 0.5 seconds more than freefall (in absolute perfect labatory conditions) in a vacuum. To restate this, a rock dropped from the 47th floor would have taken at least 6 seconds to hit the ground. WTC7, in its entirety, fell to the earth in 6.5 seconds. WTC7 reached the ground in 0.5 seconds longer than freefall. Is this really possible? Judge for yourself. Find a WTC7 video, time it. 6.5 seconds. FREEFALL. That doesn't happen without some help folks.
What kind of half-witted statement is that? ''She did not make this up.''. She made up the story that her father was going to kill her because she changed her religion. She made it up Midas. It wasnt true. She just wanted to run away. Do you understand that? Are you capable of understanding that?
Extremely smart man OPEN LETTER FROM DAVID RAY GRIFFIN: The title of my April lecture tour is "9/11: Time for a Second Look." I will be pointing out that many people---including politicians and journalists---formed their ideas about 9/11 and the 9/11 truth movement early on, when there seemed little reason to doubt the Bush administration's honesty and when the 9/11 truth movement could be caricatured, without too much exaggeration, as a bunch of kids on the Internet. But now we have abundant evidence of the Bush-Cheney's administration's willingness to break the law and to tell lies that would lead to millions of deaths. And the 9/11 truth movement is now led intellectually by scientists and other professionals, as shown by the emergence of various organizations, including Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, Firefighters for 9/11 Truth, Lawyers for 9/11 Truth, Medical Professionals for 9/11 Truth, Pilots for 9/11 Truth, Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth, Religious Leaders for 9/11 Truth, Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice (which includes scientists), Veterans for 9/11 Truth, and the Scientific Panel to Investigate 9/11. The movement also includes several former intelligence officers. Thanks to these professionals, the evidence that the official story is false is now overwhelming. The only problem is to get people to look at the evidence. Once they are willing to do this, they quickly see that the official story simply cannot be true. Finally, the replacement of the Bush administration with the Obama administration is important in three respects. First, potential whistleblowers may become less afraid to come forward. Second, the media may become more willing to expose the dozens of contradictions and other problems in the official myth. And third, there is at least the chance for a real investigation. The petition for both Religious Leaders for 9/11 Truth and Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth, for example, ends by asking President Obama to authorize a new, truly independent, investigation. Sincerely, David Ray Griffin Claremont, California April 2009
Did she have a video of her father and/or his muslim followers making that threat? No...but then again, even if she did, muslim apologists and appeasers would never believe it just like those idiots that don't believe that it was "true" muslims that perpetrated the largest islamic terrorist attack on U.S. soil. I saw those commerical jets fly into the WTC, but nooooooo...we have apologists defending islam instead of condemning it! Honor killings in islam are common throughout the world. Fact: If you are born into the islamic faith. You are not allowed to leave it much less, denounce it. The Hadith and actions of "true" muslims are very clear on the subject. This poor girl is correct that her parents love islam more than her and she fears that her father is simply following the madness set forth by their terrorist prophet who founded this cancer. If she fears for her life, this is not somethng she made up. All she has to do is look how islam treats apostrates and how they treat woman in islam. But go ahead and defend this cancer...I will not.
You don't think that muslim woman are treated like 3rd class citizens by "true" muslim men? Shoot...look it up in the koran, it gives muslim men instructions how to BEAT and PUNISH muslim women: [4:34] The men are made responsible for the women,...and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then deserting them in bed, then you may beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them further. [66:10] Women who disobey their husband will go to hell. Look it up...it is this culture and 1,400 years of islamic cancer that would scare any person who tried to leave this religion for another! Just another misunderstanding??? I don't think so. Islam IS what it IS...a truly hateful and violent cancer that allows its men to beat their woman, kill for the honor of allah, and yes...KILL us infidels like "true" muslim perpetrated on 9/11/01!!
After much searching and looking to some specifics, such as steel weakinging point ( not melting ) etc etc, I still ask, where is Barbara Olsen.......Where are the rest of the passangers? Untill that is answered I think the conspiracy thingy is just a paranoid movement. Where is Barbara Olsen, I know this was dodged in my first question and changed to a phone call debate, lets not let that happen here. Where is Barbara Olsen today? Find Barbara Olsen and we can then debate facts.
I really don't know what to say to you dude. The melting point of steel is not relevant to any conversation about 9/11. Once the annealing temperature is reached, and the microstructure of the metal changes, so do the physical properites of the metal including the ability to carry a load. Hence, the steel fails and the building falls down. You just ignore the things I say as if they were never stated in the first place and re-state your lies to support your opinion. I call that propaganda, not truth. Furthermore, you are stating that the intensity of the fire reached 250 degrees celsius because you read somewhere that jet fuel burns at that temperature. Again, you just completely ignore my previous posts, albeit it was in the Cointalk forum thread. Here is the link again. Read it, the temperature of the fire is well above 600 degrees celsius on average Tom. http://www.doctorfire.com/flametmp.html And this was no ordinary fire. It was a massive fire that spanned several floors and was aided from the start by the jet fuel. Furthermore, it has always been part of the official story that the architecture of the towers are what cause the building to fall down instead of falling over. You won't ever honor any of my requests such as providing a theory for what happened to WTC7. It is just a little bit easier to poke holes in other theories than it is to defend your own theory isn't Tom. Nano thermite huh. And where did they get that? How did they rig the busiest building in the world with explosives without anyone noticing? Why would you detonate WTC7 when you already brought down the towers? That is tantamount to calling a timeout so that you can score a touchdown in the last second of the game when you hold a lead of 72-0. How did they coordinate their attack with terrorists in the planes? Did Osama Bin Laden pick up the cell, dial, and get Bush on the phone? Is this how the conversation went? Bin Laden: "hey GW, let's make a deal" Bush: "What the hell you talkin about you damn terrorizer" Bin Laden: "Ah don't be like that GW, it's a good deal for both of us" Bush: "Alright, lay it on me you bearded freak" Bin Laden: "you help me bring down the World Trade Center, I take the blame, and you get all the reason you need to invade Iraq and kick Saddam's butt" Bush: "Wow, that sounds like a pretty good deal, but I gotta check with Cheyney first, hold on donkey" Bush: "Cheyney gave me the go ahead but he wants you to promise to help kill anyone involved who opens their mouth" Bin Laden: "Deal" Bush: "When you want to do this you Muslim wackjob" Bin Laden: "I have the perfect day, 9/11" Bush: "Oh man, you are a genius. If you weren't a freakin terrorizer, I would fire Cheyney and hire you. Between you me, that guy scares the crap out me" Bin Laden: "Great, it is settled, death to the infidels" Bush: "Wait a minute, I forgot to check that 9/11 is not a Sunday, I don't want to miss the cowboys game. Hold on dipstick" Bush: "You are lucky, it is not a Sunday, okay were on for 9/11. Hope you die of heart attack after its over though you filthy terrorizer" End call. Does that phone call seem at all plausible to you. Because I think that is more likely than the massive conspiracy that you are proposing took place that day. Thousands of people would have had to been involved in an act of domestic genecide that is unrivaled in world history and every one would have to keep it a secret. Are there apparent inconsistencies with the official story? Yes, there are. Did the government cover some things up and lie about other things under the guise of national security? Probably. Does that mean that the US government is responsible for the attacks on 9/11 and successfully pulled off the biggest conspiracy in history? Absolutely not, that is crazy! Our government officials can barely tie their shoes, and you want to give them credit for this. Only the terrorists have the intelligence, patience, resolve, and desire to pull this off, and they did. Hate to tell you buddy, you are fighting the wrong enemy. I hate to do it, but Midas is right. The enemy of the United States are Islamic fundamentalists.
Wtc access Nano thermite huh. And where did they get that? How did they rig the busiest building in the world with explosives without anyone--- ------------------------ Well.. 1) The CEO of the company that was in charge of security for the World Trade Center was Wirt Walker III, the president's cousin, and Marvin Bush, the president's brother, had been one of this company's directors. 2) There were AT LEAST two weekends prior to 9/11 when both towers were "powered down" completely for supposed cable upgrades. All cameras, sensors, and security was 100% non-existent during those times. A large number of unknown workers completed these upgrades. Once these “power downs” started, bomb sniffing dogs were pulled off duty at the WTC complex until 9/11. Scott Forbes reported a "power down" for approximately 36 hours in the South Tower of the World Trade Center the weekend (8th to 9th) prior to September 11th 2001. EDIT: In order to get to the "core" columns (you know, the ones NIST doesn't account for) you'd need access through the elevator shafts. Well, you guessed it. Major elevator renevations months before 911. Gee Wally! There sure are a lot of coincidences! Hey cool it Beav! You'll upset Mom!
Annealing 9/11. Once the annealing temperature is reached, and the microstructure of the metal changes, so do the physical properites of the metal including the ability to carry a load. Hence, the steel fails and the building falls down. ---------------------------------------------------- You CAN burn carbon based fuel hot enough to anneal structural steel, which was the official explanation. However, you need to have a lot of control of oxygen delivery, exhaust, and fuel to the fire. You can't just sprinkle some jet fuel on some drywall and anneal steel with the fire. You need to get all the conditions PERFECT. A jet fire in a building is going to be oxygen starved. The jet planes had no control over the oxygen, fuel, and exhaust of the fire. If the steel beams annealed, there was something more potent than jet fuel stoking the fire.The beams from the WTC showed evidence of a high temperature sulfur attack - something that would have required intentional, malicious, pre-treatment of the beams prior to 9-11. So..annealing may or may not have occurred. If it did...then you're going to tell me that the ENTIRE steel structure would have had to experience annealing..in an hour? With the fire on confined to a few floors, all the rest of the steel heated up to an annealing temperature in an hour? What about the vertical core columns? They annealed in a hour and fell apart? Now...IF...annealing did indeed occur of all of the steel, I submit that the steel itself had help to get to that condition, like possibly painted on nanothermite, applied during the "power downs" where there were no security measurements to prevent it. Under that scenario, I can believe annealing occurred to the whole steel structure in that time frame. Which do you support? Jet fuel fire on a few floors weakened the structure in an hour?, or same scenario, with the addition of nanothermite?
Are there apparent inconsistencies with the official story? Yes, there are. ------------------------- Holy smokes (no pun intended), an admission... Did the government cover some things up and lie about other things under the guise of national security? Probably. Ahh...under the guise of National Security. Very trusting soul aren't you? So if the FBI or CIA came to your house and said they needed to "borrow" a child, or other member of your household for a few months, but can't tell you anything because of "national security"..you'd be cool with that? Of course you wouldn't. We should just trust the Government though huh? So they lie to us for our own good then? I see. So now you can just generally "excuse" anything they do under the guise of NS because it's for our own good.
Why bldg 7? Building 7 was one of New York City's larger buildings. A sleek bronze-colored skyscraper with a trapezoidal footprint, it occupied an entire city block and rose over 600 feet above street level. Built in 1985, it was formerly the headquarters of the junk-bond firm Drexel Burnham Lambert, which contributed to the Savings and Loans collapse, prompting the $500-billion taxpayer-underwritten bailout of the latter 1980s. At the time of its destruction, it exclusively housed government agencies and financial institutions. It contained offices of the IRS, SECRET SERVICE, and SEC. Tenant Square Feet Floor Industry ******* ********** **** ******** Salomon Smith Barney 1,202,900 GRND,1-6,13,18-46 Financial Institution --------------------------------------------------- IRS Regional Council 90,430 24, 25 Government ---------------------- U.S. Secret Service 85,343 9,10 Government -**************-------------------- C.I.A. N/A N/A Government ***** American Express Bank International 106,117 7,8,13 Financial Institution Standard Chartered Bank 111,398 10,13,26,27 Financial Institution Provident Financial Management 9,000 7,13 Financial Institution ITT Hartford Insurance Group 122,590 19-21 [Insurance] First State Management Group, Inc 4,000 21 Insurance Federal Home Loan Bank 47,490 22 Financial Institution NAIC Securities 22,500 19 Insurance ****************** Securities & Exchange Commission 106,117 11,12,13 Government **************************** Mayor's Office of Emergency Mgmt 45,815 23 Government ***************************** This list is based on a table published by CNN.com, which did not include CIA, whose tenancy was disclosed after the attack in the New York Times article. One of the most interesting tenants was then-Mayor Giuliani's Office of Emergency Management, and its emergency command center on the 23rd floor. This floor received 15 million dollars worth of renovations, including independent and secure air and water supplies, and bullet and bomb resistant windows designed to withstand 200 MPH winds. The 1993 bombing must have been part of the rationale for the command center, which overlooked the Twin Towers, a prime terrorist target. How curious that on the day of the attack, Guiliani and his entourage set up shop in a different headquarters, abandoning the special bunker designed precisely for such an event. Using another poster's logic, "Is it that hard to believe that taking down this building specifically, given the tenants, the insider trading, the "control", I mean command center? I think not, especially since WTC7 is almost completely, if not completely, IGNORED in it's fairy tale, I mean "report". I can speculate that WTC7 was used as an operations/control center for the War Games as well as the "real world" games going on that day, not to mention conveiniently destroying records of Lord knows what of the associated tenants. But see....that is speculation. I was trying to stick to facts. I know the coin forum only uses facts intermittently, and I guess that's why you insist on speculation. I'd rather reference facts that I can prove, and most of my posts are easily verifiable. Until now, we've not talked about them one at a time, because everybody's hollering "that's crazy". You know what I say? I say it's crazy and very sad that the general population "bends over" so easily. My own Mother, bless her heart, won't discuss 911, says she knows "things don't add up", but "it's too upsetting to think about". I submit that is the mindset of the general population. They really don't wanna know because it has so many dangerous implications, and I think that's very sad.
