What up What up What up Hey everybody. Im still alive and still want to debate. I am still working today, but will continue to read what has been said and will post a good response. I hope everyone has enjoyed the first part of our debate becaue I have. Midas: with supporters like you how could I ever lose. I think though if you would tone down the racist/ bigeted rhetoric you would get a lot farther. I asked Tom what was hard to belive about Osama who at one time had hundreds of millions of dollars buying option contracts. Why do you have to be a racist bigget to make a smiple point that certin people use islam as a means to justifey a very Autheritarian sexist homoaphobic, anti western racist view point. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind and spewing racist bs does not help anything out. Do you know the differance between Iraq and Iran? BEcause dumb ass allan jackson does not and it is prety importnat to have a discoution about the nature of islam! Tom: Hang in there frind I'll be back. I have to go load a sql database. Man almost dune with work today. The life of a small busniess man
"Almost one hundred and thirteen minutes elapsed between the time American Airlines Flight 11 lost contact and was hijacked at 8:13:31 till the time United Airlines Flight 93 crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania at 10:06:05." I glad you brought up flight 93. Multiple passengers on flight 93 reported real time to family members and frinds that there plain was hyjacked (sp) I suck at spelling and no spell check in ie 8 . Anyways, The fact that multpile first person reports where given proves that it was Terrorist and not the us government. Also every body on the plain was identified including the terroirst so its prety daming. Unless you have some sort of proof that the terrorist where paid by the cia ect. Lets Roll! ( I feel bad using a heros last words in an internet debate, but I think it is important because you have to admit the herosism of random every day people trying to survie is very inspiering) "You mean to tell me that the flight that crashed onto the Pentagon (crashed...cough, cough..so the story goes), flew around for about an hour and a half, at least, (it flew from east coast to Ohio, turned around and came back to Washington) UNDETECTED (the finest military in the world not able to intercept it with Satellites that can see what you're having for lunch)" The plans that hit the pentagon was flying out of radar range. So when the fiter jets where sent to intercept they went intercept they flew the wrong way. Monumental screw up yes proff of government conspeircy no. We dont use satilites to detect plains we use radar. And hear are the vidoes you referance look like a plane to me. It happens very fast and the cameras are far away but none the less you can see the nose and wings and then the explosin. Also Judical watch is an indepent watch dog agency not the government http://www.judicialwatch.org/Flight77 "the plane essentially evaporated after hitting the building" Yes most of did. 11 thousand gallons of jet fule will do that. Plus the FaBlast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Think about it you take a heavey ass plan get it moving at hundreds of miles an hour and then crash it into a cement and steal building it is a disaster for the metal. The fire burned for a very long time. Im sure you've seen what jet fule can do to steal. If planes where made out of differnt metal say titanium it would of lasted, but that is not the case. They use Aluminum. Ever thorown a beer can in a fire. It burns up. If a small wood fire can mealt metal imagin what Jet fule can do. so to bring this togeather. A) Plans made out of aluminum will explode and melt when they crash into a builidng. Hopfully the piture of plan rekage will be good proof. Also the multiple linked vidoes are prety good proof especaly sense the sorce is an indepente gov watchdog. B) The flight witness statments: All support that it was terrorist. C) I have yet to see the absolute proof you talk about. Im tired as hell and have to sleep I have to be at a clients offfice at 8 am that is 30 miles from my office. I am eager for your response. I'll also go back and aswer some of your other argurments later today.
Elmo, If you misunderstood my post let me clarify it for you. I find it hard to believe that anyone can be an EXPERT on Islam without either being Muslim or having studied the religion for years. Anyone can debate the issue, but Midas purports himself to be an expert in relation to the Islamic faith. I would like to know the credentials that he has that make him an expert. Furthermore, it is obvious that he is not an expert because of how warped his opinion of Islam is. I have a friend who is a devout Muslim. He is not Arab or even middle eastern. He is black and American. He served a ten year prison sentence for federal drug charges and converted in prison. He is not a jihadist or a terrorist. He knows hundreds of other American Muslims. He doesn't know any terrorists. If all of the Muslims want to kill the infidels, why don't we see a drastic rise in domestic terrorism from our freed prison population which is increasingly Muslim. I don't even understand the last section of your post but I don't see jihadists wreaking havoc all over the globe.
Fair question...asking what percentage of those muslims that are "moderate" or "not-muslim-enough" compared to those that are "true" muslims who follow the koran and the life and misdeeds of their prophet is fair, so I will tackle it for you. You have to use some logic here, so let's begin...There are between 1.2 and 1.6 billion muslims in the world. Half are women. While a substantial percentage of Islamic women support jihad, less than one in fifty Islamic terrorist acts is actually perpetrated by a female. That leaves us with a maximum pool of jihadists that is just over 50% of the total muslim population. The overwhelming preponderance of terrorist acts are conducted by young muslim men 15 to 30 years old. This age bracket covers about half of the male population of the Islamic world, leaving us with a potential jihad pool of 25% of all muslims - approximately 300 million people. The most logical way to determine the percentage of muslims who are salafi/fundamentalists - a precondition to jihad - is to consider the most recent elections in Islamic countries. For example, the fundamentalist Islamic group Hamas received 2/3's of the popular vote in "Palestine." The somewhat secular Fatah, at least by comparison to the terrorist group Hamas, won only 30% of the votes. Hmmmm...2 out of 3 muslims voted for an active terrorist islamic group. Let's look at a so-called moderate muslim country like Turkey. While he was not popularly elected, Turkey's president, Ahmet Necdet Sezar, is a fundamentalist muslim. Turkey's parliament, which selected him by a 70% majority, is formed as a result of a popular mandate and it is predominately comprised of fundamentalist muslims that put the koran over the law of the land. How about Turkey's Prime Minister? Recep Tayyip Erdogan is the nation's most popular leader. BTW...He is a convicted felon who believes: "Mosques are our barracks, domes are our helmets, minarets our bayonets, and believers our soldiers." He won a landslide victory - and Turkey is considered to be the most moderate Islamic state?? Oh please...shoot, even Hitler's Mein Kampf is a top seller in this country because just like the Nazis's, muslims hate the Jews more so than any other infidel group! Look at Iran...The twice-elected fundamentalist Islamic nutcase ruling Iran, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, earned over 62% of the popular vote. The most moderate Islamic challenger garnered less than 20% support. The notion that the majority of Iranians are hostile to the Shia mullahs, and are poised for a revolution, is a myth How about in Lebanon? Politicians got all excited when 50,000 people marched in support of democracy. The following week when 500,000 people protested in support of Islam/Submission, the percentage of fundamentalist Muslims became clear. Fundamentalist Islamic candidates in the most recent Iraqi elections, those individuals who belonged to clerical parties like the Islamic Revolution in Iraq founded by Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani, won 65% of the seats in the new parliament. Let's move further west to the United Kingdom. Opinion polls taken by the British Government reveal that 70% of Iraqis think killing Americans is justified, something that is impossible to justify outside the conditioning of fundamentalist Islam. The rising death toll of American troops and stunning escalation in terror in Iraq give credence to those numbers. Polls taken in Pakistan, where bin Laden is most likely being harbored, reveal that 70% of Pakistanis view the world's most famous Islamic terrorist very favorably. In fact, Osama has become the most popular name for boys in the region!! Therefore, based upon the most objective data available to us, at least 60% of all Muslims have the potential to be jihadists by way of their fundamentalist voting patterns. That is to say, islam has grown substantially closer to its salafi, and thus terrorist, roots over the past decade. With that, it is safe to say that 750 million Muslims are fundamentalists trying to follow Allah's orders and muhammad's life (terrorist) example. And as fundamentalists, they are all potential jihadists. Now...If the 60% response levels derived from polling data is an accurate reflection of the current state of Islam, then sex and age criteria further reduce Islamic terrorist candidates down to a maximum of one in every seven Muslims - 25% of 60%. That means that no more than 15% of the total Islamic population of 1.2 to 1.6 billion people has the potential to be a terrorist should the opportunity arise. That equates to a minimum of 180 million potential jihadists and a maximum of 230 million. But when it comes to actual jihadists, to those who have or will commit an act of terrorism in Allah's name, research suggests that they represent no more than one in one hundred of the 180 million young fundamentalist Muslim men prepared mentally, morally, and spiritually to be terrorists for their allah. That means that there are 1.8 million actual Islamic jihadists on the planet today - a number which could jump one hundred fold almost instantaneously should the opportunity arise. Before you get a warm and cozy feeling, thinking that only 60% of Muslims are sufficiently indoctrinated in fundamentalist Islam to be a terrorist should the opportunity arrise, and that only 25% of those Muslims are the appropriate age and sex to actually engage in jihad, let's consider some recent historical events. In 1917, less than 3% of Russians were Communists. Yet since that 3% was sufficiently corrupted by an immoral and ruthless religion (Socialist Secular Humanism), they quickly came to oppress the entire nation - murdering 30 million Russians in the process. In 1924, less than 3% of Germans were Nazis. And yet since that 3% was sufficiently corrupted by Hitler's "People's Religion" as it was immorally and ruthlessly laid out in Mein Kampf, that 3% came to oppress the entire nation and led the world into a war that killed 50 million people. Also keep in mind that while "only" 15% of Muslims are potential jihadists today, that percentage is growing rapidly. Thanks to OPEC funding and clerical Now...try to go ahead without the personal attacks and refute where and why I am wrong.[/QUOTE] Midas, What personal attacks? I will admit that I was wrong, you did answer my questions and then you went on an anti-Islamic rant. Seriously, I don't feel like reading rants of that length. Could you please be more concise and to the point. Where and why you are wrong. Try this quote. Opinion polls taken by the British Government reveal that 70% of Iraqis think killing Americans is justified, something that is impossible to justify outside the conditioning of fundamentalist Islam. Are you aware that the United States invaded Iraq? IMO, if a foreign power invades and takes control of your country, you certainly are justified in wanting them dead. BTW, what is it that you are reading that makes you think Islam is inherently evil?
How did melted aluminum punch 6 holes in the E rings? Where are the 800 plus photos known available being kept. Why won't they show us. OH...by the way..cell phones didn't work at high altitudes in 2001.
Just another generation of muslim animals being raised to hate c/o of their koran...Hence the reason why they waive it with weapons in the other hand. It is okay to question why these people act as they do...someody has to! It is okay to ask why would these people fly airplanes into our buildings with no issue of dying for their religion!
See...this is soooooo typical. You can personally atttack me all you wish, because you can't debate the subject matter nor material. By the way...my dog is bigger than yours. Oh goody...I won the discussion! Anyways... BTW...CNN reported this as well...and I reported the article that appeared in the Orlando Sentinel (definitely NOT a RIGHT leaning paper...actually, quite the opposite.) Here is the CNN link who has NEVER been accused of RIGHT ties: http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/03/muslim.convert/index.html It is a story because in ISLAM, you are NOT allowed to leave the religion. You will be punished if you do so. "True" muslims do not allow this and yes, there have been a number of "honor" killings to follow their prophet's example. Here's just one Source: The Hadith ---Sayings and actions of Prophet Muhaamad Muslim 623: The Prophet said: "It is not permissible to take the life of a Muslim in one of the three cases: the married adulterer, a life for a life (if the person is Muslim), and the deserter of ISLAM." Here is what ABC news (not a right leaning news agency) reported. Why don't you watch this ABC news report and see if she is sincere before you personally attack me: Sorry if that offends you, but this is the truth of the matter. But continue to ignore the substance and continue with your personal attacks...it is so typical. Before you raise your voice, why don't you for once reinforce your argument.
She was lying, Midas. Lying. And you brought it here to prove your point that Muslims are killers and should be exterminated. She was lying. Ad you were duped by a teenage girl.
So where was she lying? Muslim 623: The Prophet said: "It is not permissible to take the life of a Muslim in one of the three cases: the married adulterer, a life for a life (if the person is Muslim), and the deserter of ISLAM." So I guess CNN, ABC news, and all got duped too!
yes a plane crashing into a buiding is going to create a big ass whole. and the force caused from the explosion would create other holes, and yes a lot of the wrekage was destroyed, but not all of it. See the picture in my last post. I now feel like we have gotten to abusrdity. Look man its easy to understand 1. They have pictures of the 911 hijakers entering the airports. They have proof they where on the planes. They have recoved dead boddies from flight 93 2. osama said he was resoponsible 3. There is **** tuns of footage of planes flying to the wtc 4. You really might be a clown. If after my last post that was all you had than I think your a dumb a$$ and no amount of logic and reason will convince you otherwise. Enjoy the fantesy it is offten better than the hard truth of reality. 5. NO answer to the fact that people where live reporting that there plain was hyjaked. No respect for peole who gave there lives to save others. YOur a CLOWN! 6. Yes I said it is ****y to call names, but I no longer care. way beyond the point of civility when you post dumb ass remarks and can not take the time to look at simple logic. If pitcutres eye witness testemoney and mounds of evidence wont convince you then I damn sure wont. Good luck in life and watch out for the eveil shadow governent that im sure will try and senor your quest for truth
Cool it down Blue, he is allowed his opinion the same as you are, so ease up on the profanity and name calling ok
A mutli-ton projectile powered but jet engines & fueled by highly flammable jet fuel will turn into "melted aluminum" when it hurls into a structure at a high rate of speed!!
So that makes it ok? Dont try to pass this off. You brought it here. and what the heck are you quoting. It isnt true in her case. She was lying. And YOU fell for it because you are so full of hate. You and that other nitwit in here.
Got it...Pentagon plane punched 6 holes in the erings then evaporated. For the record, there aren't "tons of footage" showing a plane hitting the Pentagon. The passenger manifest either doesn't list the "hijackers" or wasn't available. I am not sure but I will check. Noone has bothered to try and explain why WTC7 fell down into it's own footprint in the late afternoon. It vanished like the plane I guess. Oh yeah...and was being reported "live" on the BBC that it had already fallen, while it stood tall and proud over the reporter's left shoulder. Got it! Thanks Blue, for re-affirming my belief in the generalities I associate with the "that never could have happened" crowd. WTC7 is unexplainable. Not even the 911 commission report (report...HA!) tries to explain it. READ.
This is better than an Alex Jones DVD. You truthers, ask yourself, where is Barbara Olson. Pretty Simple.
A mutli-ton projectile powered but jet engines & fueled by highly flammable jet fuel will turn into "melted aluminum" when it hurls into a structure at a high rate of speed!! ______________ -------------------- So....ok..did the plane "melt" before or after it penetrated the 6 E-rings of the Pentagon? I'm wondering if melted aluminum balls make holes or aluminum nosed planes do. Barbara Olsen. Well lets' see. First, Mr. Olsen said his wife called on a cell phone. Well she couldn't have used a cell phone wth the technology in 2001. That "high altitude" technology wasn't developed until about 2004. Google it. Then, he said she called using the plane's onboard seat phones...ok..only one problem...that plane didn't have any. Google that too. I can further explain how the 'calls' were generated but if one can't accept more basic facts.,what's the point? Blue...you said you'd debate. You gave up very quickly. The reason I ask you to explain various scenarios in your own words, is that, sooner or later (in this case sooner), your own words will contradict you. I hadn't even got started on the many, many "inconsistencies" of the various stories we were told. For instance, why were pieces of 93 found at Indian Lake Pennsylvania over 2 miles away? Does aircraft wreckage travel two miles after it hits the ground? Simple physics is another. Buildings simple can't fall, straight down, at FREEFALL speed, without some "help". Resistance from the building's own components tend to prevent that kind of thing. Notice they gave up on the "pancake theory"? The concrete was PULVERIZED. It turned to dust. You saw it all over everywhere. What happened to the internal supports beams the were vertical at the building's core? Over 60 of them? They all MELTED? ALL of them got hot enough to be melted??? All the way down?? Building 7 is inarguable. It too...straight down in 8 seconds. No plane hit that one and it was several buildings AWAY from 1 and 2. Terrible fires leveled the whole thing? Gimme a break. One question leads to another, which leads to another, and another. Logic and physics go out the window on 911. EDIT: By the way...the passenger manifest was supposed to have included the actual highjackers because they were supposed to be regular ticketed passengers. It does NOT.
1. They have pictures of the 911 hijakers entering the airports. They have proof they where on the planes. They have recoved dead boddies from flight 93 Pictures whom they CLAIM are the hijackers, pictures that could have been generated form anywhere, photo cropped. What "proof" that they were on the planes? Ok...let's say they found bodies..that proves what? 2. osama said he was resoponsible Well.,if he said it.,it must have been him that did it. All the proof I need. 3. There is **** tuns of footage of planes flying to the wtc Absolutely there is. Never said there wasn't. But there aren't "tons of footage" concerning the Pentagon (at least, none that are available...unless you call that 3 frame chop job "tons".) Let's leave the links out and post simple back and forth debate between points. I can post literally thousands of links "proving" my points as you have done. (I'd submit there's not much "proof" in any of it however but I digress). I'm know I'm a clown and everything, so shouldn't be problem. Edit: One could learn a lot from Alex.
Lehigh It is amazing that you proved my point without knowing what my point was. It is because you befriended this American Muslim, that makes you on the opposite end of the spectrum as the person you claim is racist. I hate to be the one to tell you this but you are both right. Muslims that are American seem to be wholesome people, I would bet if you you met a jihad Muslim you would say the same thing. No fault of your own though, by any means. So let me ask you, when you see Muslims in the news, do you think they are all like your friend? Do you replace the images shown on the T.V. and replace their faces with that of your friend? If you are answering truthfully, your answer should be yes. It is kind of like seeing an American come out of a Taco Bell (fast food mexican food) and believing he is Mexican. They are not the same Elmo, comparing apples to oranges. Exactly right, if for one second you believe that the Muslims that are grown in lets say Afghanistan are exactly like those grown in a penitentiary in the U.S.A., the sky in your world must be purple. That is exactly what you are supposed to think. It is important that you think of jihadists as the normal run of the mill Muslims. That way when Americans want to get their guns and exterminate the world, you will stand up and say you are wrong. These are good peace loving people, pillars of the community. Do you get my point now?
