Why do you believe what you believe?

Why do you believe the way you believe?

ME:

well, I simply don't beliee in a god because no matter how hard I try, I fail to get any evidence. And until I no longer have a shadow of doubt in my mind, I cannot believe.

stainless

 

Well Stainless I think a lot of what people believe is how they are brought up. What values have been instilled in them. How they see the values, do they rebel against values.

Now, we have more and more influence by the media etc. than ever before. It seems to get more and more extreme. These shape beliefs as well.

I feel old answering questions like this Stainless. I really do.
I look at so much of our youth today and it saddens me. It saddens me because they run wild while the parents ignore their actions.
Then when it gets serious the parents are asking "well how did this happen?"

No parental guidance I'm afraid. Had a friend stop over the other day with his 5 and 7 year old grandchildren. I have told him NEVER to bring them back again.
Absolutely no respect for anyone period. Lack of supervision.

I was not a church goer as a kid nor am I now. However, if I did something unacceptable or just downright stupid I suffered the consequences at the hands of my mother.
My dad was on business a lot and wanted us all to go to church but mom said no. Let them make their own decisions. I chose not to go but believe me mom instilled values and respect in me.

I was never grounded as a kid nor was I beaten. Oh yeah, I got the belt or wooden spoon a la mom on a few occasions and believe me wheatever I did to deserve that I never did again.

My upbringing was to think about your actions. This is why I am a live and let live and do unto others person.

I've had my doubts about the existence of a god or gods over the years. When I see the horrible things people do to one another I really question it. Many times it is "in the name of God" in my opinion but where and how did people get the capacity to do horrible things?
Is it God(s) or a warped perspective thrust upon them by societal beliefs?

Observe and learn from life I say. Respect others' views.

The world would be a much better place if we could all do that

In short I get my beliefs from the way I was raised and what I have learned on my own. It's a never ending journey.

clembo

 

I believe because God has revealed to my mind AND my heart God's justice and mercy. It's that simple. Humans, even the smartest ones, are finite, and if we base faith on our evaluation of the infinite, God will always fall short.

 

Oh Hell, I just believe for all the right reasons and because there are plenty of wrong ones...

Ben

 

I believe what the Bible says is truth, lol. That Jesus came and died in the flesh, and rose again. There is evidence stainless, but it might not be obvious like you want it too. A show you might find interesting is the Naked Archeologist, great show, and it proves a lot of what the Bible says.

Like one episode shows that he found the tomb of James, the Brother of Jesus. It says it right there "Here lies James, son of Joseph and Mary, brother of Jesus". How more direct can you get? Lol, but check it out, and I'll find that other show I was telling you about about the Egyptians and all, they're fascinating.

But don't give up your search. Don't go trying to disprove anything, rather, go in with an open mind. (Which you have been doing so far from what I've seen).

But don't give up, just keep going and searching. It might not come today, tomorrow, next year, heck, people don't find the truth for decades when they search sometimes. You just gotta hang in there.

Phoenix

 

Clembo,

You make some very good points, however, I disagree with you on one thing. Not trying to flame or anything, but hey even friends have different point of views right?

You say you question the existance of gods because of what humans do...I see your point, but they are human.....it wasnt god so I do not hold him at fault.

However, here is where I have a problem:

1. a new born is born with cancer, or a disease that will make them suffer for the rest of there life. children are born that dont look normal....I think it is sick.

2. God is all knowing, and has your future planed, so, when you are created he knows you are going to fail. but he lets you live, knowing that someday he will have to throw you in hell....yeah...someone explain to me how that makes any logical sence

3. God loves you, yet he is going to torture you in hell....yup, that sounds loving..no, more like sadistic

I have more but those are 3 that I am having problem with in my head.

I used to be a christian at one time...and I am not trying to bash christians on this site, but why just believe? I get into argments all the time with christains. They try to tell my how it takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does god, yet they dont even know how evolution works...

I understand people will believe in god, I just wish they would at least research before they automatically say he does..

NOTE: I said I dont belive there is a god, not that I KNOW there isnt one...I am trying to figure it out...not that anyone said something, but I am just saying.

that is all I wish everyone in this world will do, learn about other myths, and a little about science...and if you still come up that god exist than I am happy for you..

I honestly wish I could believe but I cant just do it because "momma said so".

Anyways...sorry for my rant and I hope I didnt offend anyone


stainless

 

Geez, are you still talking about this??

 

yup

 

I believe because my own personal life experience has led me to that path. I really do not care if others experiences lead them down a path of non-belief. Everyone finds their own path through life. I am quite happy with my path. I am at peace with it.

And, at the end of that path, if I am wrong and there is not a God and we all fade into nothingness when we die, I am sure I won't know nor care at that point. However, it may be a little different for those who don't believe if they find out they were wrong at the end of the path. lol

 

Pascal's Wager..........

But arent you in the same way as athiest?

Yes, you believe, but if you believe in the wrong god, you will be in hell with us.

See my point, it can't be as easy as "I just believe because I do." At least not for me anyways.

stainless

 

Stainless, there is only one God, one faith, one baptism. Lol, not putting you down, but I don't understand how you can't believe really? The evidence is there, but not really the evidence you are looking for? Now I'm the confused one again, LOL.

Phoenix

 

I apologize if this is a tad long (for me, at least), but I read a great article today on the ongoing philosophical (rather than religious) argument over the existence of god. Below are the summaries of the various arguments in support of god's existence. I should note these arguments do not come to the conclusion that the Judeo-Christian God exists, just that a god exists.

Cosmological
1) Everything that exists has an explanation of its existence, either in the necessity of it own nature or in an external cause.
2) If the universe has an explanation of its existence, that explanation is god.
3) The universe exists.
4) Therefore, the explanation of the universe's existence is god.

Kalam (a more, but not exclusively, Muslim form of the cosmological argument)
1) Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
2) The universe began to exist.
3) Therefore, the universe has a cause

Teleological (Intelligent Design is a form of telelogical argument)
1) The fine-tuning of the universe is due either to physical necessity, chance or design.
2) It is not due to physical necessity or chance.
3) Therefore, it is due to design

Moral (my personal favorite)
1) If god does not exist, objective moral values and duties do not exist.
2) Objective moral values and duties do exist.
3) Therefore, god exists.

Ontological
1) It is possible that a maximally great being (god) exists.
2) If it is possible that a maximally great being exists, than a maximally great being exists in some possible world.
3) If a maximally great being exists in some possible world, then it exists in every possible world.
4) If a maximally great being exists in every possible world, then it exists in the actual world.
5) Therefore, a maximally great being exists in the actual world.
6) Therefore, a maximally great being exists.
7) Therefore, god exists.

 

LOL they could give you a bit of a headache working it all out

 

You cite these "arguments" as a joke, right? You don't believe any of them are actually valid, do you?

 

aloha, As invictus said, this is all crap....and here is why:

I think these were actually meant to be a joke......at least I hope so.

stainless

 

Why? You believe what you believe because you believe it. We just have different beliefs. You pays your money. You takes your chances.

 

Here's something for you, though...

Apparently there is a market for souls now.

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5hYd5TDUbwFJl5hJG8ABJfOV4ub3Q

Seems like a good way for a true non-believer to make a few bucks.

 

Stainless, the arguments cited are considered quite valid in the philosophical community. A theologian by trade (which is often considered a branch of philosophy), I've read them before. I was simply posting a summary of them from the linked article.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/july/13.22.html

As for the last question of your reply - You might want to reread my post, so that you can note that I said "these arguments do not come to the conclusion that the Judeo-Christian God exists, just that a god exists." I never said it proves MY God.

As for your responses, they are shallow intellectually, and can be responded to in kind.
1) You can't prove God doesn't exist, or how creation began.
2) Again, you can't prove God doesn't exist, or how creation began.
3) By the rules of science and even common sense, there could be no reason in creation for the first thing OF creation. IF you want to say the first thing created was designed, WHO designed it? You know that I say "God," but I know that you don't, so ... who designed creation?
4) The argument said objective moral values and duties exist, not that atheists or agnostics don't have them. If humans are involved in creating moral values and duties, then those values and duties are, by definition, subjective. To have an OBJECTIVE set of values in this world requires a creator of them outside of this world. Go down to the library, ask for a dictionary, and look up the difference between objective and subjective.
5) While you're there, look up ontological as well. It has to do with the how and why of existence, not magical unicorns.

 

Good points KJV, I'm beginning to enjoy this.

stainless

 

Remember what did Oddball say to Moriarty in the movie "Kelly's Heroes?"

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"Have a little faith Baby, have a little faith..."