Can Hillary win it!!

No doubt about it this country IS a mess. At least we agree on that

I can understand your reasoning to an extent. Doesn't mean I agree nor will it sway me.

Pretty obvious that I've had enough of Bush and company and I do worry about this country. Our image abroad is important and right now it stinks. People just hate Americans even if they don't really know why. Mass media can do that.
Hell, our mass media is a pathetic joke these days. Stories that are not covered or not covered fully and the average person eats it up as truth.

We can all do our research but most choose not to. Believe me the wife and I are ALWAYS researching. We cross reference a lot with snopes as there is so much BS out there.

I am not looking for a socialist government. Great in theory but doesn't work so well in practice. What I would like to see is "middle class" people like myself back in middle class. I'm tired of working hard to get by.

Money rules this country but it also corrupts. People like myself are not looking for handouts but it's really getting bad. As the rich get more money they'll quickly screw the little guy to make even more.
Something has GOT to change or we'll see internal strife like we haven't since the 60's.

Scenario will be different though. It will be much more organized and not just based around a war and race. It will be a comglomoration of people that are fed up and can't take it any longer.
Is it right? No. But it is a reality. Get enough people pissed off and eventually the keg explodes. This destroys nations in some cases.
Will I be leading it? Nope but I sure as hell see it coming. Right or wrong it's got a good chance of happening.

As for the war I totally disagree with it. You can't "make" a country a democracy as I've stated before. We went there under the guise of WMD and terrorists. So who's next? Like there's not a few terrorists in other mid east countries - around the world for that matter.
Easier solution is tighten up our own borders at a much lower costs. Just keep them out.

For those that venture to the Mid East for monetary gain (even if you've been warned it's dangerous) I feel absolutely NO sympathy for them. You get kidnapped and killed too bad.
I stay out of bad neighborhoods whenever possible. Not much difference.

As for the men and women that have given or put their lives on the line in defense of our country. I thank ALL of them - whether or not I agree with the war. I have an uncle that served in Viet Nam. He came back seemingly normal but has deteriorated over the years. He told my mom things she will never repeat.
This is happening today in another senseless war. Damn shame.

Finally for the non voters. Couldn't agree more. If you don't vote you have no right to bitch. I vote so I bitch.
I've already mentioned that I voted Independent last election. It was a protest vote but it was a vote.

We will see soon enough won't we?

 

I still say no but she can spin a good yarn! Maybe she should try fiction!



This is funny but sad.

 

ROTFLing... "Four Pinnochios" --Washington Post

 

Is that before or after her parents named her for Sir Edmund Hillary?

 

Damn, I remember that.

 

Yep....He was a nobody untill he climbed Mt Everest AFTER she was born.....

According to her campaign....she " mispoke "


again

 

Yes,

Heard that one.

How can you "mispeak" for that long?

Maybe SHE inhaled?

 

Separation of church and state or Church and politics isn't important <<this is sarcasm

 

I think even Danr is probably getting ready to wear an Obama button by now.

 

I would imagine that DanR will probably support the candidate his party nominates, he is a strong leaner in his choice, and that would be the smart move to prevent a Republican Pres.......

Hillary has a bigger problem not mentioned in any thread I have read so far....

Howard Dean

Dean was taken out by backdoor manuevers of the Clintons in 04' in order to prevent an 08' Hillary run ( she promised the foolish New Yorkers that would not happen ) against an incumbent Democrat, the Clintons were instrumental in Deans primary loses, which of course led to the infamous " yeeeeaaaahwwwwwww" we all have heard so many times.

Howard Dean is the Chairman of the DNC, and " the party leader ", and in my opinion, is in the sack for Obama, and with good reason.

After the debate the other night, the Dems had better think of something quick, or John McCain will be the next Pres, Obama looked like a deer in the headlights whenever asked a question of substance, and his lack of understanding of the topic of many a question, and lack of depth and experience poured out all over the floor.

If the Dems don't bag these two and prop up a more experienced candidate, without the mass disapproval that Hillary has and Obama is creating, they are in trouble.

I wonder how many times Al Gores phone has rung this week..........

 

Sure Hillary can win the nomination, with the aid of the Republicans, who are switching to Dem's to vote for her.
Per Rush Limbaugh, this will screw up the Dems royally.

He (Rush) encouraged them (the Republicans ) in Illinoin & some other state to switch, for the day.

 

Ahhh yes,
" Operation Chaos " it is called, and was designed to keep Hillary from losing big in Texas and Ohio...her 2 "must win " states a while back. This would increase the infighting in the Dem party and cause " Chaos".....
It has since carried on, and may actually help her to capture the nomination now that the shine has worn off Barak. It was only to be for the primarys, no Repos will vote for her in the National of course.
I have read about it and heard about it, and think it's amusing, but did not get to play a part, nor would I have if the chance. As a registered Indy, I did not vote in my state primary , our law does not allow Indys to vote in either primary, but McCain carried AZ, and I would have voted for Romney, the better conservative.

 

Hillary's in town! Whoop de doo!

So I'm working at the coin shop today and look out the window and there sits a Chicago TV station news truck.
I'm about 30 miles from Chicago in Indiana so this isn't a common occurence.

I got elected to find out why. No big deal. I go outside and the guy is on his cell phone. When he got off I asked him "so are you here to promote the shop?"
He laughs and says "only if Hillary is in there."

Now I know we all have different views here but this was not a "thrill" to me. I asked him if he was excited and he responded "I don't give a sh**, I just have to follow her around".

This gave me a laugh and apparently he had a while to wait. It was around lunch time so I told him they had good burgers across the street. Then I added and beer. His response to the last part - "Now you're talkin!".

Well turns out Hillary was in town last night as well. She's been hitting the whole area pretty hard. It was about ten miles from here where she had her "shot and a beer" episode. Made a fool of herself believe me. She's NOT one of us. If she was there every day after work for a shot and a beer it would be different.

Think she's wasting a lot of time actually. Although a lot of the industry has long since died here the mindset is pretty much the same and she doesn't fit.

Gonna be an Obama, McCain and a sprinkling of Ron Paul in this neck of the woods.

Time will tell. Enjoy the story guys.

clembo

 

I'm glad your confidant on Obama, Clembo, I would love to see her lose Indiana and Carolina in the same day next week.....

after today tho, the Obama train wreck in progress, I hope your right........

The conservatives ( and the Repo's ) would much rather go against him than her in Nov.......

 

This may seem silly then but what the hell.

Why "Operation Chaos"? Dirty politics on all sides of the fence here but if the Republicans would rather face Obama why in the hell would they "back" Hillary?

Seems rather counter productive doesn't it? Burning out the party?

As if it isn't already it's going to get even MORE interesting.

clembo

 

As it stands.....Operation Chaos has worked perfectly........

The 2 Dems are fighting it out very nasty and dirty, all the while McCain gets to run a "clean" campaign with next to no opposition

By keeping Hillary in it, Obama did not lock the nomination, and now, neither can. The voters will not decide the nominee, the Superdelegates will, angering the other side. This will again, split the Dem party, as the " loser " side will feel the winner side stole it, causing even more dissention, and hopefully, voter apathy and disgust...." stay home Dems "

The big picture is this.

Hillary has won the popular vote if you count MI and FL, 2 states who so far,will not have the delegates seated, and are being punished by Howard Dean for pushing the primary up. (Remember now, Dean has it out for team Clinton who won both states)

Hillary has won all the power states,CA, OH, PA, FL, MI, NY and NJ, states the Dems MUST carry to win the national. She has however, lost the delegate race because the Dem party rules, split delegates, not winner take all.

The voters are disenfranchised. They cannot pick the nominee, it is mathmatically impossible for either candidate to reach the lock # of delegates, and the Superdelegates will " appoint " the nominee.

If they appoint Hillary, the majority of the black vote whom the Dems take for granted will not support her, feeling cheated and worse. Race riots have happened over less.

If they appoint Obama, the Reps have a weak and inexperienced candidate who will get eaten alive by McCain, who's serpent tongued smoothness will twist Obama into knots in any debate.

Resentment, apathy, and crossover " protest " votes will result, and add that to the Nader factor, and it appears McCain can coast to victory.

Chaos in the Dem party.............

 

Although I understand a lot of your points on this I fail to see how it will help our country or the world for that matter.

...and this would be a good thing?
Actually, if you get down to it I can see how it would help the world - at least the huge Anti-American legions. The U.S. is fighting so much against itself that race riots would play well into the hands of those that so many over here fear. Pour a little gas on the fire that should solve a lot.

What happens next? McCain steps in and solves it all? Pull some troops out of Iraq to stop the rioting over here? Close one door and open another.
Of course we could start the draft again. That went over well in Vietnam days now didn't it.

Debates perhaps. Obama is NOT a great debator. He is one HELL of a speaker though. Something I have NOT seen in McCain. You know a good speach sticks in peoples heads as well. Obama has it mastered. McCain is, well, McCain.

The Nader factor can go either way.

As for Obama being weak well he can't be that weak he's still here. Inexperienced? Yes, I thought he jumped in to early myself but I'd rather have his "inexperience" vs. the "experience" of McCain or Hilllary.



One point that seems to escape people is the Bush factor. Bring it up and Republicans don't like him - nearly to the extent that Democrats and Liberals like myself don't.
It's not a factor. YES IT IS. Here on PRWE we have some heated discussions backed up with "fact" and "research". This does NOT happen for the majority of the population. People are fed up and the last thing they want, in many cases, is another Republican running the country. Sentiment and frustration comes into play big time.

One way or another there will be changes in this country. I'd hate to see it in the form of rioting but it's a real possibility depending on who wins. Like I stated earlier "....and this would be a good thing?".

 

I dont like Bush or McCain either, but would "prefer" McCain over Barak or Clinton for reasons I have stated before. McCain is another 4 years of the same, but Supreme Court Justices are untill death. I prob won't even vote this year, all 3 of them discust me.

I do not think Limbaughs operation is as big as he thinks it is, he just likes to take credit, the Dems have done it themselves really, they threw up a manufactured candidate with zero experience and even less credibility it turns out, to " challange " the already elected and coronated Queen Carpetbagger to make the race look good, and Obama caught on, sorta like Rocky vs Apollo Creed. Remember? Rocky got his ass kicked.

Draft? The D word?
The Dems tried that scare tactic in the 04 election, and Charlie Rangle D-NY, secretly introduced a draft bill but got caught bluffing when the Repos forced a vote, and he had to vote against his own bill.....Nice try Charlie and the Dems

Whoever wins, talk radio and late night TV will have a lot of fun. Thats about it for me. I cannot get behind any of these folks, I don't really care this year, and care less every day. That sucks, I have voted every year( EDIT
: Election ) since 1980.

No matter who is elected, taxes will go up, the border will stay open, amnesty for all, wages will go down, oil will go up more, the dollar will drop more, Asia will buy more land, etc etc etc

America had a real chance in 08 but blew it

Damn, I sound beaten down, don't I.

 

Know what's scary Levelheaded? I really don't take issue with your last statements.
We've had some pretty good and sane exchanges and I enjoy them.

Know what REALLY scares me? Your last sentence dude.
Way too many people feel this way and I'll guarantee it is a huge factor in my becoming a "stinking Liberal".
I have voted in every election since 1980 myself. Each election I find myself voting for the person I distrust the least. It has gotten worse with every election.

The "unknown" factor has actually become more appealing to me if one get's down to it. This, personally, scares me as well but it has hit that point and I won't deny it.

If Obama wins it we really don't know until he's in. It's that way with all of them but I think it's a bigger question mark in his case.
People are scared and those in charge are even more scared of a guy like Obama. Change is bad if you're in charge.

No one really does know do they? Obama could turn out to be a decent President. I won't say great because I don't think we'll ever get one of those.
He could turn out to be one of the worst - although it would be hard to reach Bush levels.

I'm somewhat in a "sit back and watch mode" myself. Time will tell.

 

By beaten down, I mean I have no faith in the system.
I was one of them who was Yee Haww , allright, BUSH !!!!
Turns out he sucked, now, this year, theres no yee hawww for anybody, they all suck.

I will not get my hopes up or have false ideas this time due to party loyalty, the Repos are no longer conservative, and the Dems......forget it, lol

EDIT: Obama has a chance to become a "Kennedy" type Dem, if that turns out, excellent, but I just dont see it happening.
I will even agree with Moen here.....time to rid the nation of the Clintons and the Bushes ( McCain )

But, change for the worse is not a good change