Valuable Protection, How Far Would You Go???

Many of us here have very, no extremely valuable coin collections. Many times we've arranged for some sort of third party protection, like banks and credit union safe deposit boxes. However, many of us prefer to keep these valuable collections within immediate reach and rely on methods of self protection, weapons, elaborate security setups, or threatening dogs.

Our coins, family, etc. are very valuable to us. Why shouldn't our country be just as valuable. Why do some think that an individual who would illegally enter the country, do harm, and take from it's citizens shouldn't be treated like the raving addict, rapist, career criminal, or illegal alien trying to rob a bank or break into your home and take your coins or valuables?

In an instant, if found in a situation like I've described, how far would you go to protect what's yours. Would you do what it took to stop a violent criminal act???

 

For coin protection, I rely of safes, safe deposit boxes, stealth, and separate hiding locations. I don't think I'd go as far as killing someone to protect them.

I think we need very tight border security. A nation that can't protect its borders won't be a nation for very long, and I think America should be for American citizens, not for the 'world' as some would have it. But I don't view the average illegal alien in the same category as violent criminals. They are just on the wrong side of the fence and need to be returned to their own side. I would also favor harsh punishments for companies hiring illegals. I don't buy the argument that it is too difficult to identify them. Just have them provide some combination of passport/birth certificate/social security card or other documentation of citizenship. It doesn't matter if this isn't 100% foolproof. All that is required is to dry-up the large supply of work on this side of the border and defend the border, and the flood of illegals will drop to a trickle.

 

I tell you, but have kill you then.

 

I'm not sure what illegal aliens have to do with it. When it comes to them, it just ****es me off when people who don't speak english take American jobs from us folks who know the language. As for someone breaking into my house, if I'm in a REALLY good mood I might give them a warning shot before shooting them in the MF'n head.

 

Completely off topic, but are aliens occupying jobs so valuable that we Americans would like to get them back? Primarily hard physical labor jobs. Take construction, - I can only speak for the area in which I live - the illegal immigrants have a MUCH stronger work ethic than Americans, are willing to work for less money, and in my experience, do a higher quality job. When it comes down to work quality, speed, and pricing, do you really care whether the laborer doing the job speaks Spanish or English? I sure as hell don't.

 

Not true around here. Most of the engineering and many of the accounting jobs are now going to young immigrants. Some companies hold "job fairs" where the interview countless numbers of Americans, find them all "unqualified" even though many are CPAs and hold advanced degrees; and use that as a basis to go to the government and get permission to bring over foreigners to fill the positions on work visas, at lower salaries than has been typical for those jobs in the past. These people are legal aliens, but they are putting Americans out of work with the complicity of your Congress and President.

And I totally disagree that immigrants work harder or perform higher quality work. That's a complete myth perpetrated by the anti-American corporatists, also based on experience. However, the work is cheaper to perform. Today, that is called efficiency. It used to be called poverty. Tell your kids that they can't expect to be employed in corporate America unless they are willing to work for half of what you have come to expect for yourself. This is the plan that your elected government has in mind for your family. The best solution is to encourage your children to go into business for themselves. Just don't put them into a wage competition with the third world.

 

ummm, yeah what cloud said. Seriously, just because you may not do manual labor, there are alot of hard-working good americans who have no other option. The mexicans I personally have worked with, I liked. But, they happened to be legal immigrants who spoke decent, if not fluent english. I'm a well educated, yet working class guy, and when I get passed over for a job in a factory where most of the employees have to have a translator to communicate with their supervisor, it slightly ****es me off. Just because 29 of them share a house, so they will work for peanuts.
Actually, we are really OFF TOPIC.

 

I dont think this has gone off topic...

hrm...equating a person who is coming into this country, albeit illegally, but most often because they are desperate for work and a living wage (and willing to work the hardest of labor) to support themselves and their family, often entering illegally because to do so legally would mean a 10 year wait if they are lucky....to a rapist burglars and bank robbers? No...I dont see the comparison as valid.

I agree with adam that they need to learn the language...but I think there needs to be a way for these people to find work...at least on temp basis...there is work to be had here...help wanted signs everywhere...jobs going unfilled...

As for stiffer penalties...good luck...put them in jail here and we pay...depart them and they will come back...the only way to stop it is getting tough on mexico and force them to provide for thier own citizens, force them to care...penalize them in economic ways...remove our support and aid to them...its the only way.

As for the poor, the tired, and the huddled masses (as was my family when they came here) still yearning to be free here in America...they are human beings...

 

california is a lot like quebec, in that everything is bilingual. billboards, advertisements, school letters/memos, government forms, etc. everything has to be in both spanish and english. a lot of jobs tell you spanish isn't a requirement, but they'll hire the bilingual person before you if you don't speak it. i believe all immigrants should learn english. culture and heritage are important, but turning entire states and regions into the country that was left behind is a lot different from having a little italy, a chinatown, or boston. learn the language and adapt! the melting pot of yesteryear is getting cold and chunky.

i'm not buying into people blaming mexicans for "stealing jobs". u.s. jobs are headed everywhere at home, and mexicans are taking the blame for everything. i'm using the term 'mexicans' instead of 'illegal aliens' because everybody is focused on them and our border with mexico. whenever somebody uses the term "illegal aliens", "illegal immigrants", or just "illegals", they're talking about mexicans anyway. blame the business for greedily increasing profits at the cost of american jobs. most telephone support lines connect you to india. they all speak english and even take on american-sounding names. auto plants in michigan shut down and reopened in mexico. other businesses shut down and relocated to china and southeast asia. chinese computer programmer salaries are a quarter of what american programmers make, and a lot of those jobs are heading that way too.

our ports are still unsecure and container ships are still bringing in chinese human cargo. our northern border is also still unsecure, and that gets even less attention. even after the tubercolosis lawyer guy snuck in from europe! on the news, i remember a town was up in arms after an illegal mexican was involved with a dwi death. instead of being outraged about drinking and driving, they were outraged about border security. something about how if there were no illegal aliens there would be less drinking and driving problems. wow.

spending millions on a huge wall would do nothing to stop illegal russian immigrants, or stop terrorists from coming in through canada. but i don't think as many people care about illegal russians as they do the mexican ones. if only the tubercolosis guy was an illegal mexican. maybe then we'd care about securing our 'other border'. also, if we managed to catch a container ship smuggling mexicans through one of our ports, the public outcry would be so tremendous, the politicians would finally have to deal with it! after six years, port security is still lax. there was minor interest when an arab company almost took over, but that fizzled when they were rejected, and serious port security is back on the backburner- as is air cargo.

so far, the only thing we've done to make our borders safer is to plan a wall between us and mexico. and most of the public is content with that.

 

Knowing human nature I would hide it in plain sight. A friend at work said he bought a safe to keep his valuables in it. I asked him how big it was and he said about the size of a beer cooler standing upright. I said good idea but do not store your valuable in it. Nail it to the floor and if you are burgled that will be the bait. The noise of trying to remove the safe will alert you or your neighbors. I have four tool boxes at work. I have faith in my co-workers and they are unaware but we get temps in there sometimes. I keep my collection locked in the second best. The thief will assume that the valubles are kept in the pretty expensive one.

I was burgled one time and they did not find the money and it was only hidden under a picture frame sitting on a doily.

Let me add, a farmer friend once told me that a lock only keeps an honest man out.

 

This in my oppinion is the key to the whole problem! CEO's who spend little on the production of their products, and pay as little as possible to those they hire. They are also the ones who support the political parties (both of them) and have the influence to keep any meaningful legislation from being enacted. You don't see any big rush to fix this end of the cycle do you?
Cut off the head of the dragon and the beast will die! Simple as that.... but you can't get it done because of the money being moved back and forth between the big time operators and their legislators. All the rest is nothing more than smoke and mirrors.encil:

 

Cloudy, you were going along pretty good until you wandered WAY OFF course with that ludicrous comment.

 

OldDan, That is why you keep yourself in a key position. If you fire me then the whole thing collapses.

 

Would you feel better if it was an accident rather than a plan? If so, why is it so difficult to fix? Personally, I don't think there are very many policy decisions or situations where someone somewhere didn't know exactly what the outcome would be ahead of time and just flat out planned it that way.

 

I have a safe in my room, and my whole family hunts. I got my FOID card (Firearms owner and ID card) wheniwas 10. So i have 4 guns in my room. A 20 gauge shotgun, a 12 gauge shotgun, a 30-06 rifle, and a 45 pistol. Granted, i would never kill someone, but i would defanatly threaten them.

 

I go away for a measly two days and you guys go stomping off on this kind of topic. Do I have to take a laptop on vacation with me to prevent this type of shenanigans from occurring? Just kidding!

Anyway, the original question is one that I've actually pondered in my head quite a bit over the years. I have a large breed dog that just can't seem to abide anyone near the house without letting us know it. The mailman is constant practice for her and more than one carrier has commented on how vicious she sounds. Once said intruder makes it past her somehow, I have a junior size aluminum bat in my closet next to my bed. Anyone coming down my hallway is going to get a surprise mouth full of aluminum dental work free of charge. If the first swing doesn't put them out cold the second one will definitely be felt by their next-of-kin.

Would I protect my coin collection or any other material item with lethal force? Unlikely, but that depends on how much my family is threatened in the process. I'm not what you'd call a violent-type person "anymore" but there was a time when I would have reacted with violence to just about any provocation. I have matured past that point thankfully and still carry some regrets from my earlier life. Several people that were just idiots got more of a beating than they really deserved at my hands. I don't think back on those times with pride but embarrassment and disgust at my own immaturity. I believe that if you can think back to a time when you hurt someone for any reason and feel empowered by the thought, you have some maturing to do.

I also think this question has a great deal to do with your own personal insecurities. Insecurity heightens your perception of danger whether the danger is real or imagined. The more insecure you feel, the more danger you will imagine and the more protection you will seek from that danger. Any reinforcement of that belief along the way will increase a person's insecurity and can in a few cases lead to paranoia. Obviously not everyone that considers danger a possibility is going to develop paranoia but like many other human attributes, insecurity is a continuum. I hope that I've moved down the scale a bit and can stay there for awhile.

 

S&W 44mag and a Ruger 9mm loaded, beside my bed.
One on each side of it.
A Jennings 22 in the bathroom.
In the back of the house, at least 5 12 gauges, 3 scoped high-powered rifles and an AK-47.
I have completed the NRA safety courses and will be getting my Conceal and Carry Permit soon.
I believe that in a given situation, I would do what had to be done.
I would hate to shoot someone, but if they come into my house uninvited, it'd be a given with no questions asked.

 

While you, Old Chap feel the need to swing your false teeth at the robber the rest of us prefer Smith & Wesson. Since we (the rest of us) have a permit and license, etc.

Actually it's got to do with our securities and those of our neighbors...

 

I have my own personal methods of protection. But, by far protecting my family takes an obvious first. If someone would manage to get away with my collection (if they can find it) , so be it, my family is much more important. I guarantee though either way, they'll be in a world of hurt.

 

If I were you, I'd take a reading comprehension class and not assume you know what the rest of "us" have. You would probably like to believe everyone else feels the same about guns as you do, it just isn't so. So many bellicose statements about guns is a clear sign of insecurity.

No, it's your insecurities and your neighbor's insecurities. I know living out in the middle of a sparsely populated state as you do, you might think that you've seen it all, but the reality is that those of us occupying civilization, and there are a lot more of us, don't find the need for such overt statements about guns and rarely have to spend the time you do talking about every conceivable aspect of them. Even you must realize how much you bring up the topic of guns. You are obsessed with them and it is a personal insecurity of yours. Ask anyone that really knows you if they feel you are obsessed. If they can be honest with you, it would be an eye-opener. But truthfully, you don't strike me as the introspective type.